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Old 01-11-2005, 09:26 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana Luthor
in fact, look what Snape did with Lily.

And there's still the fact that he makes Harry's life miserable
As to the first part, though I think he was an ass for saying what he did to her, especially when she was defending him, I couldn't help getting the feeling that YoungSnape had a little crush on YoungLily and was trying, a little too much , to keep that hidden.

And...yeah, his baseless bitterness toward Harry bothered me. But I think he mostly knew his place as far as HOW bad he could treat Harry. And, since I'm one of those "People let Harry get away with too ****ing much" kind of thinkers, the part in PoA, for example, even though he got thoroughly overexcited trying to get Harry busted for sneaking off campus...I was actually rooting for Harry to get busted, because he needed to understand he can't just do any stupid thing he wants and ignore sense and stuff. But, he did get away with it (*sob*) and went on doing whatever the hell he wanted, with people sneaking him out of trouble all the time... I really don't think he "makes Harry's life miserable." I think he's a nuisance to Harry, and that's about it. I mean, as much as Harry might overdramatize, there are so many worse things happening to him and so many bigger problems he has, and, hell, we probably have, than a Snape. (I will also add that Snape dropping Harry's vial on purpose was really infantile and I was ashamed that he would do that. But I share his festering rage at Harry for going into the Pensieve; NOTHING gives him the right to do that--not curiosity, not a desire to get revenge for anything...NO. That is one of the most disgusting things a character has done over the course of AT LEAST the immediate plot of those books and I wanted to hurt Harry myself. Those are people's private ****ing thoughts. You do not get to know them unless they let you. Asschild. *exhales*)

Remus yelling at Harry about sneaking off campus in PoA made me feel some better, though. I knew he would do it, and I was SO HAPPY when he did. My Remy don't let me down!
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Old 01-11-2005, 10:56 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airie75
As to the first part, though I think he was an ass for saying what he did to her, especially when she was defending him, I couldn't help getting the feeling that YoungSnape had a little crush on YoungLily and was trying, a little too much , to keep that hidden.
Probably. Although, he had a weird way to show that. Poor guy, but I don't blame him

Quote:
And, since I'm one of those "People let Harry get away with too ****ing much" kind of thinkers, the part in PoA, for example, even though he got thoroughly overexcited trying to get Harry busted for sneaking off campus...I was actually rooting for Harry to get busted, because he needed to understand he can't just do any stupid thing he wants and ignore sense and stuff.
Same here. I know that he has all that "burden" but that gives him no right to do whatever he wants. And CapsLock!Harry is just a pain in the ass. Everyone's just trying to protect him because he and his hero complex are always in trouble and even so, he doesn't seem to care about it.

Quote:
I mean, as much as Harry might overdramatize, there are so many worse things happening to him and so many bigger problems he has, and, hell, we probably have, than a Snape.
Oh, Harry's the drama que--king, sorry. I do love him *I have this thing for lonely-and-confused-guys* but sometimes he's just...blergh. Stop complaining about everything, kid!

Quote:
But I share his festering rage at Harry for going into the Pensieve; NOTHING gives him the right to do that--not curiosity, not a desire to get revenge for anything...NO.
So as I. It was a huge disrespect and I was truly glad that Snape sort of freaked out. I know I would. But thanks to nosy!Harry, we had one of the best chapters ever. Even so, bad Harry

Quote:
Remus yelling at Harry about sneaking off campus in PoA made me feel some better, though. I knew he would do it, and I was SO HAPPY when he did. My Remy don't let me down!
He's just the man. That smart, kind and sexy way of his just melts me

-Ana
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:55 PM
  #48
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This conversation is fun. I just hope we don't get in trouble for sort of being OT.

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Originally Posted by Airie75
As to the first part, though I think he was an ass for saying what he did to her, especially when she was defending him, I couldn't help getting the feeling that YoungSnape had a little crush on YoungLily and was trying, a little too much , to keep that hidden.
Totally. I could see Snape having a crush on Lily while they were in school and him not wanting her to know. I also see it as maybe a little bit of male pride when he said that to her. He's a teenage boy that has a girl sticking up for him. I know it's childish but that's how boys can be so it's understandable. I don't excuse what he called her though.

Quote:
And...yeah, his baseless bitterness toward Harry bothered me. But I think he mostly knew his place as far as HOW bad he could treat Harry. And, since I'm one of those "People let Harry get away with too ****ing much" kind of thinkers, the part in PoA, for example, even though he got thoroughly overexcited trying to get Harry busted for sneaking off campus...I was actually rooting for Harry to get busted, because he needed to understand he can't just do any stupid thing he wants and ignore sense and stuff.
I know what you mean. Harry was told he shouldn't go and yet he did it anyway. He has a tendency to have this "I'm Harry Potter. I can do anything I want." way of thinking and then when he gets into trouble for it he doesn't understand why. Even though Snape and Harry have their differences, I really truly think that Snape wants to protect Harry no matter how he feels about him and I'm sure that Snape never wanted James and Lily to die.

Quote:
But, he did get away with it (*sob*) and went on doing whatever the hell he wanted, with people sneaking him out of trouble all the time... I really don't think he "makes Harry's life miserable." I think he's a nuisance to Harry, and that's about it. I mean, as much as Harry might overdramatize, there are so many worse things happening to him and so many bigger problems he has, and, hell, we probably have, than a Snape. (I will also add that Snape dropping Harry's vial on purpose was really infantile and I was ashamed that he would do that. But I share his festering rage at Harry for going into the Pensieve; NOTHING gives him the right to do that--not curiosity, not a desire to get revenge for anything...NO. That is one of the most disgusting things a character has done over the course of AT LEAST the immediate plot of those books and I wanted to hurt Harry myself. Those are people's private ****ing thoughts. You do not get to know them unless they let you. Asschild. *exhales*)
No kidding. I couldn't believe that Harry would be that stupid. It was nice that Harry had sympathy for Snape after and he realized that his father was a bully.

But, like Ana Luthor said, It made for one of the best chapters.

Quote:
Remus yelling at Harry about sneaking off campus in PoA made me feel some better, though. I knew he would do it, and I was SO HAPPY when he did. My Remy don't let me down!
I know! His favorite teacher yelled at him and it was great because you know Harry felt bad after that one.
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Old 01-12-2005, 02:00 AM
  #49
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Hello Howlers,

I'm new here, but I adore Remus Can I be added to the list, please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana Luthor
Does anyone have some fic recs where Remus is the main character? Usually, Sirius is the main character and although I love him, I need some Remus to make my day

-Ana
It's a little late, but I do!

My Teenage Fan Club and How Severus Snape Learned to Maraud--both by After the Rain. They are great and Remus is IC.

-Noelka
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Old 01-12-2005, 02:33 AM
  #50
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Thanks for the link to the shoebox project.

While I find Snape to be a fascinating and intriguing character, and at times I've had a great deal of respect for him (it took a lot of courage to show his Dark Mark to Fudge at the end of GoF and shows that he's willing to go to great lengths to support Dumbledore and defeat Voldemort), I can't say I like him. It's the way he treats his students. He's awful to them, and it bothers me to see someone in an authority figure like that ridicule and sabatoge his students. And it's not just Harry, although that's undoubtedly where he has his worst issues. He's mean to Hermione, too. And that type of thing really gets to me.

I think Snape, much like Sirius, is still trapped to a large degree in the past. With Sirius, I can understand why. He lost all of those intervening years trapped in the hell of Azkaban. No wonder he has issues. I wonder why that's the case with Snape. He was a Death Eater, so I'm sure saw and did some horrible things. What made him change? Why turn his back on that? I respect him for that, but want to know more. And that's why he's so interesting to me.

As for the pensieve scene: although I love Sirius and have a fondness for James, nope, can't excuse what they did with Snape. That was bullying and wrong. So I'm not saying that it was right. However, remember that was one episode in time. We don't know what came before it. I'm not sure that Snape was a total innocent in his dealing with them, either. Remus mentioned that he came to school knowing all those Dark Arts curses already, and from Snape's actions towards Lily it doesn't seem that he was going around all nice and friendly to others. Again, not saying that what Sirius and James did was right or trying to make excuses for them. They were wrong. (I wonder if there were ever any consequences for that type of misbehavior at the school? Students there do seem to get away with magic-related threats and bullying quite a bit.) But I really am hoping to learn more about the dynamic between all of them back when they were in school. There's so much hatred there between Sirius and James on one side and Snape on the other. I want to know how it all started.

And neither Sirius nor Snape seem to show much interest in moving beyond the past, which is sad and ultimately leads to more badness happening. I had hopes for them at the end of GoF, but alas, they didn't learn how to really work together. In that respect, Remus definitely comes out as more mature and able to move on. Not that I believe he likes Snape, but he's able to work with him and treat him decently (even when Snape was harsh towards him in PoA, Remus always treated him with respect). It's admirable.
(And see - I tied the post in to the topic of Remus. )
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Old 01-12-2005, 10:15 AM
  #51
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(Yeah, I tried to, too )

I think Snape's anger toward Remus is a lot having to do with Remus never did anything to stop the other two, even though he could have had that influence on him. But I don't see Snape as ever having done anything to Remus when they were kids. Nor has Remus done anything to Snape. Remus has no reason to hate him, really, and having been there during the Hogwarts days, knows what he must be harboring, and--yes, Snape does tend to cling (but if someone had sent me to be mauled by a wolf as a joke, I would probably cling as well)--doesn't blame him for it. And...feels bad for his inadvertent part in that plot. Maybe. So...those two seem like they're trying to move on.

(The part in PoA when Remus called him "a fool with a schoolboy grudge"--yes, he continued on to the worth of putting an innocent man in prison, and I must say, well, he was right, there, but that's not the part of the dialogue I'm talking about--and Harry and Hermione talking to Dumbledore near the end saying "He's just bitter against Sirius because of a stupid joke he played on him in school..."--well, those lines just **** me off. HE TRIED TO KILL HIM. Of COURSE he's bitter. Those understatements as it being a "schoolboy grudge" or a "stupid joke"--I really think it was QUITE a notch above that, and understating it is like saying it was okay, like it wasn't a big deal, like it's confusing why Snape wouldn't get over it. Um...he almost died? Yeah. My poor Severus; will he ever be understood?! )
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Old 01-13-2005, 02:46 AM
  #52
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It's his treatment of his students that keeps me from jumping on the Snape-lovin' bandwagon yet. I just can't like him - sorry.

That said, I can't blame him for holding a grudge against Sirius. Sirius almost got him killed, and no matter how much of a total jerk Snape probably was before that (nosying around and, I'm sure in Sirius's mind, threatening Remus's secret) that doesn't excuse the possible consequence of getting killed by a werewolf (What was Sirius thinking? Did he even consider how Remus would feel about that? Not to mention the fact that someone could have very likely ended up dead? Thank goodness James had better sense). And I'm sure that Snape felt betrayed at the end of PoA, when Dumbledore believed Sirius's version of events (which were the truth). It must have seemed as if Dumbledore was picking Sirius over Snape. So, as petty as telling everyone about Remus's werewolf status was, I can understand why Snape would have done it. He was furious and hurt.

I think it's interesting how Snape can be a character I fundamentally dislike, yet can also sympathize with at times and respect at others.

Anyway, back to Remus. I believe that Snape did insult Remus and cause him some trouble back in school. He was snooping around trying to find out Remus's secret (which led to the "prank" - I hate that term for it). That doesn't sound like he had friendly feelings towards Remus. However, I doubt that it was primarily directed towards him, since Remus is really inoffensive and nice to everyone, but was more a by-product of Snape's hatred towards Sirius and James. Causing trouble for Remus would have just been a way to get at and upset Sirius and James, who were Snape's real target.
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Old 01-13-2005, 10:10 AM
  #53
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Yeah, I think so, too. And maybe he also tried to find out the secret as a result of bitterness that Remus did nothing to stop them when he could have.

Also, yeah, the fact that Remus would have flipped out to know that he was a pawn in what was effectively a murder attempt is another thing that worries me about the "prank" ( ). I mean, I hate to think of the pain he'd be in after finding out what he inadvertently did. Hell, he's guilty enough knowing what actually happened...

OOH! Noelka, you're added!!

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Old 01-14-2005, 03:01 PM
  #54
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I don't believe that Sirius would have ever done what he did if he had thought about the possible effects it would have on Remus (whatever his other faults, Sirius is loyal to those he cares about, and wouldn't have wanted Remus hurt), but it was so incredibly stupid. And in so many ways. Remus must have been so furious with Sirius after that. Wonder how hard Remus and James came down on him for it.

Seeing as how Snape blames Harry for things that his father (who Harry never even really knew) did, I'm sure that it was easy for him to blame Remus and put him in the same mental category as James and Sirius. So while Remus wouldn't be the real target for his anger, he would do nicely as a target if Snape couldn't get to James and/or Sirius.
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:38 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anla
I don't believe that Sirius would have ever done what he did if he had thought about the possible effects it would have on Remus (whatever his other faults, Sirius is loyal to those he cares about, and wouldn't have wanted Remus hurt), but it was so incredibly stupid. And in so many ways. Remus must have been so furious with Sirius after that. Wonder how hard Remus and James came down on him for it.
I don't think Sirius would have done it either had he known how Remus felt but I have a feeling that Sirius was not one to think before he acted. He was a "live in the moment and take care of the consequences later" kind of guy from what we've seen and heard of him. I could imagine that Remus and Sirius probably didn't speak for a while after. I know if I were Remus I would have a hard time being around Sirius after that but I'm not Remus so I don't know what he did.

Quote:
Seeing as how Snape blames Harry for things that his father (who Harry never even really knew) did, I'm sure that it was easy for him to blame Remus and put him in the same mental category as James and Sirius. So while Remus wouldn't be the real target for his anger, he would do nicely as a target if Snape couldn't get to James and/or Sirius.
Remus was friends with those guys and from experience, people tend to dislike someone if they hang out with their enemy no matter how they treat you. You are associated with that group and a lot of the time you are going to be put in that category no matter how wrong or sad it is.
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:26 AM
  #56
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Yeah, I can very easily see Snape putting Remus in the same category as James and Sirius, since Remus was friends with them and pretty much inseperable. Like I said, he takes things out on Harry with much less cause, so I could see him disliking Remus.

I totally agree about Sirius rushing into things, especially when he feels that the people he cares about are threatened, which he would have felt from Snape snooping around and trying to get Remus in trouble. Which led to an incredibly stupid idea.

I do think there is still so much that we don't know about what went on between Snape and the Marauders.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:57 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anla
Yeah, I can very easily see Snape putting Remus in the same category as James and Sirius, since Remus was friends with them and pretty much inseperable. Like I said, he takes things out on Harry with much less cause, so I could see him disliking Remus.
He is most definitely a man that holds a grudge close to his heart.

Quote:
I do think there is still so much that we don't know about what went on between Snape and the Marauders.
I know it would be hard for Rowling but I hope we see a lot more in the way of the Marauders past. I know it's hard since it's about Harry but she's already used Harry once so we could see the past and I hope she does it many more times.
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Old 01-17-2005, 02:38 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by White Lady of Rohan
she's already used Harry once so we could see the past and I hope she does it many more times.
Only if he doesn't do it through immoral and despicable means like sneaking into someone's memory and closely guarded thoughts again.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Airie75
Only if he doesn't do it through immoral and despicable means like sneaking into someone's memory and closely guarded thoughts again.
Of course. It would be nice if Remus could share some stories with Harry and through that we get flashbacks.
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Old 01-17-2005, 04:52 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelka
It's a little late, but I do!

My Teenage Fan Club and How Severus Snape Learned to Maraud--both by After the Rain. They are great and Remus is IC.
Thank you, Noelka As soon I have time, I'll read both =)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airie75
Only if he doesn't do it through immoral and despicable means like sneaking into someone's memory and closely guarded thoughts again.
Very good point. I think there are loads of ways to show us the Marauders' history, but I don't trust Harry that much. He might not do the same he did with Snape, but respect other people's privacy... White Lady of Rohan, that sounds really good. Besides, Remus always provides us some very good moments

Did I mention that I love the thread title? Because I do So true!

-Ana
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