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Old 11-14-2015, 03:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Jaime Bee (View Post)
I'm glad he chose to fight for one and did it on his own.
Yeah me too it made it more emotional that way
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:58 AM
  #62
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Well, I don't worship Spike either.

I think that Spike has done evil things but so have many of the other characters who have souls. Faith stabbed an innocent man to death, tortured another innocent man to death, beat an innocent girl into intensive care, tortured another innocent man, teamed up with a demon to try to masscare thousands, etc. Willow zapped innocent people with lightning bolts, tortured an innocent man nearly to death, started an apocalypse to try to murder 8.7 million species, etc. Gwendolyn Post tried to murder a room full of people. That zookeeper was ready to slit a teenage girl's throat in order to be possessed. Angel had a soul when he locked a dozen humans in a room with two powerful bloodthirsty vampires, smothered Wesley with a pillow, ordered a pacifist demon to murder a human, etc.

Many souled human characters on BtVS have tried or succeeded in committing or enabling sexual assault. Richard Anderson, Andrew, Warren, Jonathon, Xander, Faith, Willow (sleeping with Tara when the blonde witch was under a memory-wipe spell), Cameron, Coach Marin, etc.

*Soulless* Spike actually had more of a conscience in him than Hannibal Lector. Spike would lose himself in the nature of the beast, letting the biological impact of his vampirism override everything else in him. But Hannibal just lacked empathy and remorse. He could brutalize people the way demons do simply because they weren't him. He saw other humans the way that most humans see animals.
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:07 PM
  #63
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Well, I don't worship Spike either.

I think that Spike has done evil things but so have many of the other characters who have souls. Faith stabbed an innocent man to death, tortured another innocent man to death, beat an innocent girl into intensive care, tortured another innocent man, teamed up with a demon to try to masscare thousands, etc. Willow zapped innocent people with lightning bolts, tortured an innocent man nearly to death, started an apocalypse to try to murder 8.7 million species, etc. Gwendolyn Post tried to murder a room full of people. That zookeeper was ready to slit a teenage girl's throat in order to be possessed. Angel had a soul when he locked a dozen humans in a room with two powerful bloodthirsty vampires, smothered Wesley with a pillow, ordered a pacifist demon to murder a human, etc.

Many souled human characters on BtVS have tried or succeeded in committing or enabling sexual assault. Richard Anderson, Andrew, Warren, Jonathon, Xander, Faith, Willow (sleeping with Tara when the blonde witch was under a memory-wipe spell), Cameron, Coach Marin, etc.

*Soulless* Spike actually had more of a conscience in him than Hannibal Lector. Spike would lose himself in the nature of the beast, letting the biological impact of his vampirism override everything else in him. But Hannibal just lacked empathy and remorse. He could brutalize people the way demons do simply because they weren't him. He saw other humans the way that most humans see animals.
I dont think its possible to worship characters such as SPike or any other characters to be honest.
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:26 AM
  #64
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Oh, plenty of fans find ways to worship problematic characters.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:49 PM
  #65
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Can I just jump in here?

Spike is my favorite character on the show, but I don't worship him. He's interesting due to his flaws and evilness and how he eventually seeks redemption. But even souled Spike isn't perfect. I question some of his actions in S7. For instance, when he finds out that he killed Principle Woods' mother, I didn't expect him to get all weepy at the man's feet [Woods tried to kill him after all], but I didn't like how he put most of the blame on Nikki. She was the Slayer and he was a vampire. That's how it worked. I think Spike even said she chose to be a Slayer over being a mom, when he knows that a Slayer cannot just give up being the Chosen One. He's a bit hypocritical since a few episodes later he tells Buffy that she can't give up. Granted it was an apocalypse....

Buffy was a bit cold to Woods in the episode too, but that's what I love about them. They weren't perfect, but I can'r worship them.
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Old 11-18-2015, 08:15 PM
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Can I just jump in here?

Spike is my favorite character on the show, but I don't worship him. He's interesting due to his flaws and evilness and how he eventually seeks redemption. But even souled Spike isn't perfect. I question some of his actions in S7. For instance, when he finds out that he killed Principle Woods' mother, I didn't expect him to get all weepy at the man's feet [Woods tried to kill him after all], but I didn't like how he put most of the blame on Nikki. She was the Slayer and he was a vampire. That's how it worked. I think Spike even said she chose to be a Slayer over being a mom, when he knows that a Slayer cannot just give up being the Chosen One. He's a bit hypocritical since a few episodes later he tells Buffy that she can't give up. Granted it was an apocalypse....

Buffy was a bit cold to Woods in the episode too, but that's what I love about them. They weren't perfect, but I can'r worship them.
Yea you sure can
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Old 11-19-2015, 04:41 AM
  #67
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I think Buffy was the right level of warm & cold towards Wood. She greatly sympathized with what happened to him as a child and the lasting impact---losing a parent, realizing evil sometimes wins, having your entire world shift---carried into his adult life. She opened up about her own experience losing her mom. But it didn't change the fact that he went behind her back. He manipulated her mentor and long-term friend into believing she was incapable of leadership, decision-making, and rational thinking. He was treating her as a stereotype, a lovesick emotional woman that can't see the forest for the trees and needs the men to handle things. They went behind her back. Didn't even have enough respect for her to accuse her outright of being compromised. It stunk of misogyny and s2 finale Xander.

I agree that Spike was harsh on Wood. I still cringe whenever I see him wearing Nikki's jacket in front of him. I still roll my eyes in AtS' The girl in question when he laments the destruction of the leather jacket and Angel reminds him "you stripped it off the body of a dead Slayer" and Spike responds "which gives it great sentimental value".
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:42 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristinaL80 (View Post)
Can I just jump in here?

Spike is my favorite character on the show, but I don't worship him. He's interesting due to his flaws and evilness and how he eventually seeks redemption. But even souled Spike isn't perfect. I question some of his actions in S7. For instance, when he finds out that he killed Principle Woods' mother, I didn't expect him to get all weepy at the man's feet [Woods tried to kill him after all], but I didn't like how he put most of the blame on Nikki. She was the Slayer and he was a vampire. That's how it worked. I think Spike even said she chose to be a Slayer over being a mom, when he knows that a Slayer cannot just give up being the Chosen One. He's a bit hypocritical since a few episodes later he tells Buffy that she can't give up. Granted it was an apocalypse....

Buffy was a bit cold to Woods in the episode too, but that's what I love about them. They weren't perfect, but I can'r worship them.
It's good to see you posting here.

Those are good points.

I hated Wood and didn't even pay attention to any of those things though.

I still can't believe though Buffy told him if he tried anything again she would let Spike him.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:48 AM
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I didn't hate Wood until he said "Faith was speaking" when Buffy interrupted her in Empty Places. It was Buffy's ****ing house.
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Old 11-19-2015, 05:53 AM
  #70
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I couldn't believe some Spuffy shippers actually felt threatened by Wood.

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Old 11-19-2015, 05:59 AM
  #71
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I never saw him as a real threat to Spuffy but he did seem like a catch before he hooked up with Faith and I realized he was an idiot.

Wood was intellectually bonding with Buffy. They were academic colleagues. What the heck was he able to talk with Faith about all that time they were together? Favorite brands of booze?
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Old 11-19-2015, 06:22 AM
  #72
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Buffy's heart eyes.

Faith and Wood just have sex.
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Old 11-19-2015, 01:52 PM
  #73
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Buffy actually chose Spike over Wood by saying that she didn't want Spike to not be there. When Spike asked about Wood, she didn't have an answer. This was right after her date with Wood.

I did like how Buffy had Spike's back after Wood tried to kill him. I still think she was a bit cold because she knew what it was like to lose a mother, but I understand why she told him that she'd let Spike kill him. Her mind was also focused on defeating The First.
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:54 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristinaL80 (View Post)
Buffy actually chose Spike over Wood by saying that she didn't want Spike to not be there. When Spike asked about Wood, she didn't have an answer. This was right after her date with Wood.

I did like how Buffy had Spike's back after Wood tried to kill him. I still think she was a bit cold because she knew what it was like to lose a mother, but I understand why she told him that she'd let Spike kill him. Her mind was also focused on defeating The First.
The shooting script has Buffy tell Spike Wood is just another demon fighter.

I wish that was kept in.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:53 PM
  #75
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The shooting script has Buffy tell Spike Wood is just another demon fighter.

I wish that was kept in.
Why did they cut it out?
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