Jaime Bee

That is a great SpuffCan episode b/c we get Spike about to bite noble woman Buffy & then she says Hi Honey I'm home & kicks his Ass when the spell is over.

Jaime Bee

I want to make clear that the fact this thread isn't for Bangel shippers has always been in the OP

I was only a casual viewer Season 3 & Bangel that season felt like Joss was just waiting for the spinoff.

He has admitted the WB idea for a spinoff was why Angel was brought back Season 3.

I think that Bangel had a heartbreaking bittersweet ending that fit perfect for them Season 2.

I think of not as fun for viewers if the writers force the whole destiny thing.

I admit I loved couples that I guess are the exception like Dawson/Joey.

The show that rewrote Soulmates not being romantic love in the end.

I think seeing Spuffy & Cangel who you wouldn't ever expect would be together is more interesting.

I partly think Joss didn't have as much control with Bangel having to still be something b/c SMG & DB at the time were the huge stars of both shows.

The WB & Fox still promoted them together early on & you can't deny the first 2 Seasons of Buffy was important for Bangel with their SL when Angelus happened.

I just feel the chem. fizzled out Season 3 with nothing for Angel to do the way Joss wrote it but go back & forth with Buffy relationship stuff.

You realize Angel never fit in at all with the Scoobies too.

Joss has mentioned that Bangel were boring to him & there was no growing for them to do as char. together by Season 3.

I'm not gonna deny Bangel were pop. & still are but Spuffy are more pop. in fandom today & pretty much from later years of the show.

It's mostly b/c Spike became bigger pop. char. than Angel.

James Marsters had to join ATS for the show not to be cancelled!


We wouldn't have gotten a crossover Season 7 if UPN still wouldn't do them for Bangel.

I think in a lot of ways the reunion was Buffy being able to talk about Spike & her feelings.

Bangel shippers got a kiss & Buffy running away from him pretty fast after he gave her the amulet & choosing Spike in every way in the episode over Angel.


We didn't get Joss saying nice things about Bangel until the EW Buffy Reunion for years after the show that much.

Well honestly did he have a choice but to say he loved both ships then?

He saw how fans reacted over & over to the question with SMG.



I truly believe the fact Joss can't come up with anything to say about Bangel other than they were the grandest love story shows he has nothing to say.

Plus called Angel Romeo.

He also compared them to Romeo/Juliet that he made clear wasn't something he thought was good in the past like Twilight in another quote.

Joss hates both!

Joss can explain Spuffy is telling. He has meant it when he said he was a Spuffy shipper in interviews.

That Spike was the best guy for Buffy between Angel Riley & Spike in one interview.

First he talked about how Spike is the long haul guy. That his char. grew over the years evolving in diff. ways.

That he obviously thought Spike getting a soul was so very meaningful at the end.

Joss: I mean he got a soul for her.

Who does it sound like even at EW Reunion he ships?

I think fans just see love diff. partly.

Some love the idea of 2 people being destined for each other.

There love is just doomed b/c of forced to being apart by external issues.

That's so romantic to some fans but not me.

That describes Bangel to me.

Spuffy & Cangel grow as people & have real mature adult relationships.

Bangel never got those things.

Spuffy had external issues that they were able to overcome.


The meant to be thing with Spuffy & Cangel to me when I talk at times is about how these char. were made for each other.

They are meant for each other in this way. The writers aren't forcing this couple as the couple we are told to root for.


They found in each other what they wanted/needed & been searching for all their existence.


I didn't mean for the post to be this long.

BlueWolf

Some good points there @Jaime Bee

I can see the appeal of Bangel no doubt about it.
Its a fairly simply and common Beauty and Beast story.

The tall, Brooding vampire falls in love with the girl...its a nice fairy tale.

But to me that always was it, a fairy tale that can never grow out of it.
Im a easy guy who ships two characters in a span of one episode, but i never felt it with Bangel.

I trust my instincts and i got the feeling that Buffy/Spike work, same goes with Cangel after their first scenes...there was just this dynamic that i can see truly go somewhere.

I dont have a problem with Angel, i find him boring in Buffy but in Angel he is actually quite enjoyable.
But he always felt like he holds Buffy back as a character and hangs over her like a shadow.
While Spike felt like he was walking right beside her and grow with her.

I dont know where i saw this, maybe a meta or a fanfiction...but somebody said that Buffy will always be Angels girl, but she is no girl any longer.

The whole Spuffy vs Bangel thing will never end and i dont think it needs to, but to me there is simply no question which is endgame.
The show pretty much destroyed Bangel when Spike got his soul.
I get why neither the comics nor the Show itself focused on the details of it, because that would show a huge problem with Angel.

Because if they focus on it, the simple truth is that Spike in all his evil soulless existence...loved Buffy enough to face torture and pain to get himself a soul.
Which would mean that Angels love for Buffy has its limit, and that limit is the soul.
While Spikes whole being, demon, soul and everything wanted the soul for buffy.
The evil Monster that Spike was supposed to be, followed a Legend without being 100% if his goal would even be in reach...but for him there was no going back.
It was either dying in a cave or getting his soul because of his Love for Buffy.

-Alicia-

AMEN to all of this

Jaime Bee

That's another good way to describe Bangel.

That's just not for me & even more as I've gotten older.

I agree with everything.

I'm attracted to the kind of love that takes time to evolve & makes each other better people b/c of having them in your life. They make you want to be better from loving them giving you the inspiration to be the best poss version of yourself.They are there with you through the good & bad times. Real True Love grows & changes over time but only becomes stronger.

Love at first sight doesn't exist. It's just lust at first b/c love takes time when it's the right love & you to take that time to get to know someone will be worth it in end to form love/connection that can make it through anything!



Well Life happens & we go through those hard times that's the person that will just be there for you. They are able to see your real self b/c you let yourself be vulnerable the most with them. That person will see something special inside you & believe in you when you don't even believe in yourself. Their love is unconditional. They know & understand you in a way nobody else does or can b/c you let them see a side you won't anyone else. That's what I look for in my ships now.

I think this really describes Spuffy & Cangel.

I hope this makes sense.

-Alicia-

It does make sense and I agree

Found this and thought of you, Jaime


heartbreak is the national anthem

Jaime Bee

Aww Thanks. That's so pretty.



I'm glad you agree with what I see as Real True Love.

~AnastasiaGrey~

I like that too that is pretty

-Alicia-

Jaime you and I have always had similar tastes with couples

Jaime Bee

I really think you would love Cangel if you saw ATS.

I just hate Joss crapped on them Season 4.

I have such love/hate for him.

I love him b/c of Spuffy of course.

What he did to Cangel.

~AnastasiaGrey~

Hey al

-Alicia-

Hey Tee!

I really should watch AtS eventually. I feel like a bad Buffy fan in general for never having seeing it

Jaime Bee

No you aren't.

I know you don't like Angel on Buffy much but he has a personality & can be funny on his own show.

~AnastasiaGrey~

Angel was more snarky thats for sure lol

-Alicia-

Sounds much cooler