tanaja

That's horrible. I can understand your point of view and probably you are right. I mean, I am a woman, and I respect myself and all other woman.

I don't even remember watching the episode with bedroom scene, when GG was first time on tv many years ago. And authors never really mentioned that bedroom scene again, they just let it go. As if it never happened. Everything is so ambiguous. It lasted a few seconds, you could interpret it either way. Jess probably felt bad about it, because he left Stars Hollow soon after the incident.
Besides, there was also undeniable chemistry between actors at the time (they were dating), So, I really liked them

My best friend from high school, a best student in our class, but you know... cute, but not so popular, more quiet and naive, she was studying all days long. At 22 she started dating a guy very similar to Jess. She completely lost her head. Her parents were sad, neighbors complained about his behavior (toward her too), He was ... "typical Jess", bad behavior, horrible communication, unkind toward her parents, dropped out of university several times, screwed up, but he was abandoned by his father in childhood, etc.
However, today they are still living together, they are having 3 years old son, and his behavior is much better, he is very devoted dad, he treats my friend better than in the past, they are very happy and she is still madly in love with him. So..

Anyway, I would like to discuss, how much Rory changed, she started to take risks (Logan's influence), she made her own decisions. And Jess was still somewhere behind...

Talula78

Tanaja - Feel free to stay here, but like Maria said, be prepared for a LOT of negativity towards Jess as we generally don't care for him here, hence why this is an anti thread. A thread you might feel a little more comfortable posting in is the Dean/Jess/Logan thread here. I'm happy for your friend that it turned out okay, that's awesome! But from my experiences that's not the case. One of them is still in that relationship with a kid and calls me, sobbing, scared to death of her husband when he's angry, so I have a little bit different perspective than you have. My cousin went back to her ex-husband who beats her senseless, who had a similar background as Jess had, so, again, my experiences are a little different. I do recognize this is fiction, but it just hits a little too close to home for me. And the way that she had written Jess, always snapping at Rory's loved ones with no respect, made me despise him all the more. Yes, I understand his troubled past, but what he needed was a psychologist, NOT a girlfriend who put up with that crap and made exceptions for him. Anyway, I don't mean to make you feel uncomfortable in expressing your perspectives or opinions, so please continue posting. I just ask that you understand where I'm coming from and that I see it a little differently than you do.

Maria - I'm sorry about your being pressured. That's a scary experience to go through, I don't wish that on my worst enemy.

tanaja

That's ok, I don't mind if posters hate Jess, we just have different opinions. Although I might try with the other thread (Logan, Jess, Dean) too, I would love to be there sometimes too.

I have a serious question. Were signs of Jess's behavior really indicating, that he will become abusive?
I mean his behavior was very difficult, the bedroom scene was of course the worst, but in latter seasons he turned out ok. However, that's just a fiction.

What you're talking about your friend is very serious. How do you recognize an abuser?
My friend's partner (btw, he has never drunk a drop of alcohol and he has never taken any drugs) and your friend's husband are probably not that similar. It just seemed so on the surface. I read, it has something to do with the pattern from original family. Abuser and victim find each other, because they want to resolve their pain from their original families and than they just repeat the same (abusive) pattern again.

fox24

Thanks and sorry about your friend
I know some one brought an article about qualities Jess shares with guy that become abusive

tanaja

Luke should definitively provide a therapy for Jess. So, perhaps he wasn't really such a good guardian after all.
Although Jess might have not wanted to participate. He was too smart for his own good.

pinkpaisley

I don't think that's a fair statement. Guys like Luke and Jess aren't open to that type of thing to begin with. So forcing someone to go, doesn't really do any good. And in the end, Luke did share his self-help books.

But I do believe that his bad behaviour could be something he grew out of. But at the time, he definitely wasn't great for Rory.

Talula78

Yes, they were. The lack of respect he had for others, the pressuring her into sex, the constant anger he has at the world and everyone in it pretty much would signify an abuser to me. That's my problem with his character, there's NO development whatsoever, everything happened offscreen, so maybe if we actually saw him making efforts towards managing his anger I could've bought the miraculous turnaround instead of him just showing up out of the blue all new and shiny, yelling at Rory to get her act together?

It's very serious, I've had to contact the domestic abuse hotline here for her, but ultimately it has to be their decision to seek counsel, refuge, etc. so there's nothing I can really do except tell her to get help which she always ignore because she's terrified of the consequences. Anyway, I don't like to broadcast too much about that situation cuz it's personal and sensitive to me but I see a LOT of Jess in both those guys, it's just that Jess had a writer who gave him a "happy" ending. Oh, if life could only be that simple.

huntzmore

In the Kyle Bedroom scene, Jess didn't ask Rory if she was ready, he didn't ask her if she was Ok, he didn't respond to her words to wait and then got mad at her. And that is on top of never wanting to do anything she wants to do after making it seem that he would be the type to do things with her. Jess as a love interest was a real piece of work.

I think the way Jess acted in season 6 wasn't shiny and new. He came back showing Rory his book and then got disappointed in her life and mad at her for dating Logan. And he tells he knows her better than anyone -echoing what he said in season 4 when he asks her to leave with him. It's just not becoming him those words. Especially when he hasn't seen her in over a year and didn't see her a lot in season 4. I know fans love that he tells Rory what they want her to hear but Jess should never be used that way. It paints him even more as a potential abuser imo. And Jess has no right to make snap judgments on anyone. He has no right to tell Rory his opinion on her dating Logan. " We used to make fun of Guys like {that}" as if that was a good thing. And then assuming that Rory broke up with Logan when she says she's fixed everything. Jess in season 6 makes my skin crawl more than him asking Rory to run away with him a year after he ran without talking to her.

In the revival, Jess seems nicer but we don't see him in any love interest way except for the look in the window. He's there for Luke which is sweet. And the fact that he was used to tell Rory that her troubles were tempory and to write a book wasn't as bad as him telling her he knows her best of all. The problem was more that Amy&Dan thinking Rory needed a guy to tell her how to fix herself. It wasn't done as icky as in season 6.. Though I still think Jess should never be used that way because he's not there to see Rory at her best since season 2 and a little bit of season 3 And he doesn't stay around to be a friend when she's at her lowest either. He's a fleeting visitor who knew her back when the audience thinks she was at her best - season 2. I don't like him being used in that role because of their history and Rory needed to come up with her own passion and book subject.

fox24

Good analysis

tanaja

I'm so sorry. We probably shouldn't discuss real people and maybe we should delete all parts of the posts about them. That is such a serious issue and I don't know how to fight against it. We could all become victims at some point in our life.


I usually avoid "bad boys" in real life -sometimes to a surprise of my friends, because they think that bad boys are "so cool". They think, that I like boring guys (very different than Jess).
However, in high school I had a rebellious phase myself. And that's why I can relate to Jess. Making one stupid thing, but than everything else comes with. And being too stubborn to ask for help, and thinking that nobody is as clever as you are. And refusing to play by rules. It was fan, and it was difficult. But I am proud, I was a rebel.

fox24

I like some boys who are a bit rebellious at least on tv. In real life I mostly go for nice guys. Like the guy in my avi was a former bad guy but he had a good redemption and treats the heroine well minus a time when he was under dark magic. However Jess story is more in real life and doesn't have that excuse lol. I also like the Riverdale version of jughead who is a loner but he has more of a excuse then Jess he was homeless and he's a nice person

Talula78

I avoid guys with bad tempers at all costs, they're always bad news. Having said that, I am drawn to some bad guys on TV if they're written well enough and have a redemptive SL (ex.Damon in TVD), I just don't think Jess was written well at all. He was all anger and not enough tenderness IMO.

Huntzmore- Excellent points you've made, especially about his return in s6. In the revival he's better but once again I didn't witness any development so I still don't trust him and find myself waiting for his next angry outburst. I certainly didn't see him in ANY romantic context whatsoever, neither did Rory. They're "story" if you can even call it that, ends right then and there.

fox24

Plus in the revival he's mostly with luke who he's at his best with

I do agree jess should have gone to therapy and I also said luke should have gotten jess a tutor for school

tanaja

Lorelai said to Luke: "I have a good kid." Meaning: Rory was good girl, and Jess was bad boy. However, IMO Amy Sherman Palladino wanted to emphasize an irony, that the revival Jess was "a good kid" and " the revival Rory was... well, not so perfect any more. IMO that was her plan all along.
Apparently (?) Milo wasn't available for several seasons (?). That could have been be a reason, why we didn't see Jess's transformation. She had to build his character on element of surprise instead.
IMO her idea was to show "the fall" of perfect Rory.

However, I don't think, that Amy has ever intended Jass and Rory as an endgame.
There would be too much heartache. Logan changed Rory. She's not "good mama's girl" any more, she became more bold. She started to take risks. She is not afraid to make mistakes.
But Jess needs stability. Rory would be bad for Jess. And Rory doesn't love Jess any more.

Talula78

I agree that Jess is at his best around Luke, NOT Rory. It was clear to me that she had moved on from Jess in the revival and it didn't feel like he'd be endgame ever, he has a whole separate life happening in NYC wasn't it?