Gilmore Girls - Nag Hammadi Is Where They Found the Gnostic Gospels Discussion - Page 3

FanGirl · 02-10-2004, 11:37 PM

Wow.

DEFINATLY the best episode I have seen this season...though that's not saying much since this season hasn't exactly been the best (in my opinion) but whatever.

Kirk was hilarious [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I actually laughed out loud while he was doing the "Over, Roger" thing next to Jess's car and Jess yelling back at him...oh the memories.
Yea, and the JJ moments- Why did Luke say Liz wanted her to have the earrings?! Sometimes Luke needs to show his soft side...too bad he was too drunk to notice how Lorelai was taking care of him.

And finally. Literati Love. Yea, I admit, Rory zig-zagging across the street like a 4 yr. old with Jess right behind her was a bit...um odd, but it reminded me of the old days when Rory acted much younger. She's matured so much, it does kind of make you wish she acted her age once in a while. But still, I thought the 'I love you' at the end was S2ish which I love. Did anyone else get a bit teary-eyed after Jess walked to his car and drove away, or was it just me?

Raja · 02-10-2004, 11:53 PM

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Originally posted by AvidTVfan:
Actually, Yale's Library (all the libraries combined, including all the undergraduate residential colleges' and grad schools) is second only to Harvard's, which is the biggest university library in the country (maybe the world). (But they won't let you photograph it.)

Damn tour guides. They told me they were bigger than Harvard. Guess they were a tad partisan. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Quote:

Originally posted by AvidTVfan:
The library you're thinking of is the Beinecke Rare Book Library.

That's it. And glad I didn't succumb to the temptation to use the name I remembered. Meineke. Might've thought I was referring to a muffler place.

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Originally posted by AvidTVfan:
When did you go on a Yale tour? Was it recently?

Was I think my sophomore (or was it junior) year in high school when I did Yale Model UN. 8 years ago?

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Originally posted by LynnieV:
Raja, I do believe that Jess cares about his mother to the extent that he can. His mother has neglected him his whole life. That is why he gave that speech to Luke about not trying to change her. I'm sure Jess had tried an infinite number of times, to no avail.

The episode had Liz complaining about Jess' behavior and Jess complaining about Luke trying to interfere by expressing concern about his mother. While your inference isn't unreasonable it is still just a guess. If they had Liz and Jess interact and perhaps had some type of confrontation perhaps we could've learned something about him.

Unfortunately it's an opportunity lost. We only saw that she found him impossible to raise (which may or may not be true) and that he expresses disdain for her and doesn't like the the idea of himself or anyone else meddling in her life.

We learn nothing about him except he likes to rant and insult everyone. Rather than humanizing him we see an exagerrated form of his very worst qualities.

CaptainBackfire · 02-10-2004, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Did anyone else get a bit teary-eyed after Jess walked to his car and drove away, or was it just me?

Dude, had tears running down my face. Which was sort of awkward since my friend called me just at that moment to discuss the ep, and she was like, "Are you crying? What's wrong?" And I didn't want to admit the real reason... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Oh Milo, the things you do to me!

oOmoonshadowOo · 02-11-2004, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AvidTVfan:
Gotta say, the actor who played TJ: Bad. Just really bad. His scene with Luke in the diner. He would only act when he had lines.

Well, shake him up, maybe he'll disappear.

TJ was somewhat . . . amusing but such a loser. "Wanna know what TJ stands for?" LOL Gary. The ep was great but one problem . . . only like 30 seconds of Lane! That Mad Tv paraody was so true, she just runs in and out. No fair [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]. I did get a happy from the JJ moments. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Kelly_mv · 02-11-2004, 12:59 AM

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Originally posted by oOmoonshadowOo:

...only like 30 seconds of Lane! That Mad Tv paraody was so true, she just runs in and out.

[img]smilies/lol.gif[/img] I thought of that too when that happened... if only she had been going through the living room on her bike [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

I liked how the ending tonight reflected the opposite to the Lit ending in 'I Can't Get Started'.

ilovetheshins · 02-11-2004, 03:07 AM

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Hey, does anyone remember the WB Random Rant with Alexis when she said that her most embarrasing moment onscreen was when she had to run through town after Dean kissed her? I believe her comment was, "I'm not the most graceful runner." It's funny that she recognizes that.

I completely remember that!! And that's why it's OK. SO AWKWARD, but I love that about Rory, Alexis is simply too cute. Who cares if Rory/Alexis can run? She was in a dress anyways. Would it have made a difference had she hauled a$$ Alias-style? It was just too funny, too juvenile with the "I'm running away first," too endearing "aww, hehe."

This episode really brought heartache on all fronts, and there's nothing we can do to "fix it," which is why it's so painful.

Quote:

Originally posted by AvidTVfan:
Someone said this on the spoiler thread a couple days ago: Isn't it ironic how Jess was brought in to keep Lorelai and Luke apart, and as he leaves, he ends up bringing them closer together.

That is very interesting. All we know is that Jess only comes back for one more episode some time before the end of this season, right? Well, I don't read spoilers, but knowing that can only mean one thing: Rory will tell Jess she is over him. And boom, he's out of her life for good. Anyone else think that?

Next week looks good.

This show has REALLY picked up since the hiatus. Really. Do you think the show will gain or regain its viewers?

Profrrplum · 02-11-2004, 03:19 AM

Raja, CaptainBackFire, I'm gonna risk wrath by quoting myself from about the middle of the first page of this thread:

Quote:

Lorelai, for example. Luke is a fixer, and Lorelai needs fixing, although she hasn't yet admitted it. She's a different model Liz in a lot of ways, thanks to her having consigned so much of her life to -- not just the back burner, but to the refrigerator to heat up later, in order to take the care she wanted to take with Rory. But the show's Lorelai arc is being moved along; she's closer now than she was before, and I think that Liz's little speech got under her skin a bit -- maybe more than a bit. "He's one of the good ones. Maybe the good one." Jeez, Lorelai, you think? What'cha think about those earrings, girl? What would you think if you knew that Liz had given them to him to give to "[his] wife -- or Lorelai?" How come even Liz can see the nose on your face and you can't, babe? You may be the TV love of my life, but I'd sure be happier if you got a clue. But, again, maybe she is getting a clue. Maybe she even took note of Emily's not-at-all accidental comment that not everything was about her.

Now, this isn't TWoP with moderators eager to ban us if we put a toe over a line, but it does strike me that it's worthwhile to read a whole new thread when posting in it. Maybe that's just me, but at the same time, responding to earlier posts rather than just posting one's own thoughts withour regard to earlier posts seems to me to be more fun. And more likely to lead to further insight with more minds working on whatever questions arise. Hey, just sayin', no biggie, but worth making a small point, to me.

Anyway, as the foregoing makes clear, I disagree that there's been no advancement of the series-long arc by this episode, and in fact feel quite the opposite. I think that we saw a lot of subtle Lorelai being affected by things here, and believe that that was most clearly expressed by the (to me clear) parallel between her and Liz. (Think that was a good call out of the blue, though, Cap, since you obviously hadn't seen my earlier post, and until you did, no one else mentioned it.)

Is Lorelai different after this episode from what she was before this episode? Life moves in imperceptible increments, we all know. Like fault lines in the earth, little attempted slippages that don't quite make it build up pressures on the line, and eventually something substantial happens when the pressure gets too great. This is one of the little slippages that may have even made it a bit, but if it didn't make it, adds substantially to the pressure on the Lorelai structure of defense and denial. If it did make it, it made some cracks; we have to await further episodes to figure that out. Either way, Lorelai's walls-against-the-world-while-I-raise-Rory structure is going to crumble. The question is whether it fails cataclysmically or incrementally. This episode made it very clear that there are changes in the wind for Lorelai Gilmore ("Maybe he's the good one.")

You have to look at the little things. This show is so incredibly good because it demands that you look at the little things in order to be aware. Can't treat it like Friends and have it on in the background while you put together the chicken divan for the date of the week. Have to attend to it.

And I love it for that.

LynnieV · 02-11-2004, 08:16 AM

You can definitely compare Liz to Lorelai when it comes to how they raised their two children and the result of that. Liz (and I don't think it is a guess from what Luke has said) has had many men in her life that have caused her harm and if she was harmed then Jess had to have been harmed too. Lorelai on the other hand gave up her life to raise Rory and Rory, except when it comes to her relationships, is a very good, kind and thoughtful person. Rory turned out the way she did because of who her mother is and the same can be said of Jess. They both had absentee fathers (Jess more so) but it is their mothers who have had the greatest effect on their lives.

sharla · 02-11-2004, 09:20 AM

Oh my god, what a JJ epi last night!!!! Tipsy Luke was hilarious...a little loss of his normal tight control. The goofy little smile, "hand full'a Barbie", falling out of the tree, breaking a lamp, that was too cute. And then when she leaned forward to him and then got up, and he reached out a moment too late...I was like "Aghghghhhhhh!!!!" Then the earrings...and her face looking both pleased and disappointed when they were from Liz, and how she looked disappointed to tell Liz earlier that she was "just the friend and the customer". And yeah, where the heck is Nicole? I mean, don't get me wrong, she can fall off the planet for all I care, but if we're supposed to buy that he's sticking with her, we kinda need to see it.

Liked the opener with the freezing house and all Lor's comments. That was cute. I was actually thinking it was a money-saving thing at first.

Oh, and TJ!!! Who else fell off their chair when at the end TJ said, "You're a dick." I mean, it was funny but really unexpected. And I have to say, they say ass on there and damn, but I watch this with my 9 year old daughter, and she was like "what's a dick, mom?" THAT was fun.

And next week's promo!!!!! Oh man, Scott looks hot. And I was jumping up and down too!!!!

Okay, downers...that stupid ball. Emily came off as femme fatale Hitler. Although she was right saying "no one would believe you two were a couple." Lor and Jason have about as much chemistry as sand. They bore me. HE bores me. No longer disgusts me. He's just lost my interest completely...zzzzzzzzzzzz

Rory and Jess and him running off all the time and then that idiotic dance through the festival. How awkward was that? These are supposed to be college age "adults"? They acted like 7 year olds. And the "I love you" was completely unnecessary and messed things up in my opinion. Let it go, people, let it go.

I did like the Luke/Liz/TJ/Jess dynamic...especially at Luke's apartment around the table. Luke's face expressions were funny. "My beer..." [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Jess's rant to Luke was mean, and Luke's face broke my heart, but it did lead to a great scene with drunk Luke and then Lorelai nailing Jess later.

Orlando · 02-11-2004, 10:18 AM

I concur that it was a most excellent episode. I can't help myself. I love the Luke/Lorelia interaction. It really is interesting and exciting to me.

I always like the show better when it centers around Stars Hollow and the characters there. A little of Yale and a little of Emily/Richard is good.

Jason should just be Lorelai's long lost brother (the fact they had sex aside). When they act like siblings who still rebel against their upbringing they are pretty funny but as a couple? Forget it!

Liz is growing on me. And being the responsible one of three siblings I know how Luke feels. Sometimes I get tired of being the one to take care of everyone but I can't help myself. Too bad Jess tried to make him feel bad about it.

The only things I really didn't like were Liz's friends acting like horny 14 year olds around Luke and Emily getting a little too over the top about the banquet.

And Harvard vs Yale? Big giant pissing contest. I don't think anyone besides them cares about who has the bigger library, better school, etc. They are both more wonderful than every other college put together. Whatever [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Anyway, hope the show continues on this vein. Am enjoying it very much. And will enjoy the scenes involving the new inn.

orlando

twinkie*princess · 02-11-2004, 02:03 PM

DrunkLuke was pretty funny. I don't like many townies, but I liked Gypsy, and Kirk had his moments.

I've never really been a big fan of Jess, but he started to grow on me a little before the end of last season. I was so shocked and annoyed that he said "I love you" and then drove off. It's like we need to relive the angst of it all - I wanted more closure in this episode. I wanted him to say he was sorry.

Next week...Okay, I love Dean. Always have, probably always will. But can we take the dead horse his storyline is on and kick it a couple more times? He's done and married and as much as I wish he wasn't, he is, so Jared needs a new job. Maybe on OTH or something.

cheerchickie17 · 02-11-2004, 02:04 PM

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Originally posted by AvidTVfan:


Anyway, I came by to drop off this (albeit bad quality) screen cap for Danielle

Thanks and thanks for the summary! I would of said t sooner but stupid school has me so piled up on work I didn't have the time

BrownEyedGirl25 · 02-11-2004, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
And being the responsible one of three siblings I know how Luke feels. Sometimes I get tired of being the one to take care of everyone but I can't help myself. Too bad Jess tried to make him feel bad about it.

I don't think it was his intention to make him feel bad about it. He was just telling him that he feels Luke made him feel more worse, than better, because he had to deal with disappointing him. Nevertheless, he should definitely have realized how much that would've hurt Luke.

Quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
And Harvard vs Yale? Big giant pissing contest. I don't think anyone besides them cares about who has the bigger library, better school, etc. They are both more wonderful than every other college put together. Whatever [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Okay, first of all, this wasn't anything in the episode. This was something I posted. So you're not rolling your eyes about the episode. You're rolling your eyes at me, which I personally find very offensive. I was simply offering a piece of information, in response to Raja, who made a comment about the size of the library. There's really no need for that...
I also agree with you that they are ones that care the most, but--and I'll bring it back to the show--the Harvard/Yale rivalry is much more than they showed in the football game episode.

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Originally posted by sharla:
And the "I love you" was completely unnecessary and messed things up in my opinion. Let it go, people, let it go.

I don't think he said it because he was expecting something back from her. (I mean, that's why he left...) He just wanted her to know. She ranted on and on about what he could possibly tell her that would mean something to her. And so he told her what he wanted her to know. That's all.
As for lack of closure... there's still time [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

ETA:

Quote:

Originally posted by Raja:
Was I think my sophomore (or was it junior) year in high school when I did Yale Model UN. 8 years ago?

Heh. I was just at YMUN two weeks ago. I did it my sophomore and senior years.

[ 02-11-2004: Message edited AvidTVfan ]

SamiJoe · 02-11-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Raja:
I guess I'll disagree with everyone. I found the episode simply awful. I won't say it is the worst of the season just because my memory is dimming on exactly how bad earlier episodes this season were.

1) Best quote of the episode:

"I've seen dumber things talk." - Gypsy comparing Jess with his car.

10) The Saint Luke discussion between Lorelai and Liz was a bit much, but given what a certain miscreant puts him through... let's just say it took inhuman self-control for him not to beat his face in. Whether such self-control is justified or even a good thing is another issue.

I really didn't like this episode, and I was shocked to see that everyone loved it. The words "best episode ever" were used and I couldn't believe it. Was I watching the same episode you all were?

I didn't like the addition of TJ, although it brought some good lines. He really didn't have any emotion tied to him, and I thought the sweet, nice, I've-got-it-all-together-and-I-just-love-your-sister attitude changing to the "you're a dick" one was sloppy. Or maybe I just missed something.

I didn't like the dinner, because it had no point whatsoever. Except maybe to give us a still-confusing(to me, at least)title. I'm sick of Emily laughing at Lorelai and Digger, and Lorelai not being able to tell her. This was a carbon-copy of last week's, without that awful laughter.

Jess. Ugh, Jess. "I love you." "I love you?" I yelled at the TV when he said that. Maybe "I love you, too" would have been a bit more appropriate? Either way, you don't tell someone you love them and then ride off in your junk car with your uncle's money into the sunset. Before I watched the episode, I was so sure that Jess wouldn't say it. I was so sure that that would affect the show too much, affect Rory too much. He left. He's gone. Again. After something big happening. Again. Rory's cell phone call was so perfect that I'm going to quote it:

Quote:

...You didn't handle things right at all. You could've talked to me...and leaving again without saying goodbye again, and that's fine, I get it, but that's it for me...and I'm moving on. And I'm not going to pine. I hope you didn't think I was going to pine, okay?...I think I may have loved you, but I just need to let it go...and, um, okay, so, goodbye. That word sounds really lame and stupid right now, but there it is. Goodbye.

Sorry to take up so much room, but that was just so good. It was so much closure, for both of them. The powers that be don't seem to like closure anymore (Dean's drunken confession, Jess' sober one), and I don't know why. All the ends were neatly tied up and now the blanket's unraveled. Anyway, enough with the negativity.

Oh, and I LOVED Gypsy's comment.

A. B. Normal · 02-11-2004, 06:21 PM

I love you.

Quote:

Originally posted by SamiJoe:
I really didn't like this episode, and I was shocked to see that everyone loved it. The words "best episode ever" were used and I couldn't believe it. Was I watching the same episode you all were?

Sorry to take up so much room, but that was just so good. It was so much closure, for both of them. The powers that be don't seem to like closure anymore (Dean's drunken confession, Jess' sober one), and I don't know why.

WORD to that. I waited a whole day to post about this episode because I was totally confused about why everyone liked it so much. I definitely didn't hate it, and I liked it over a majority of episodes this season, but equal with season 2...no.

I love you.

Lorelai's small moment with Lane reminded me of last week with Lorelai reaching out to Mrs. Kim. Very sweet, but painful. Keiko's reaction was awesome. She keeps disappearing halfway through episodes. It's odd.

Luke and Lorelai's scenes were the brightest spots of the episode, they play off each other so well. DrunkLuke was really sad. It's nice when Lorelai takes care of him, seeing as he'll return the favor next week.

The Kirk walkie talkie shtick? It was slightly funny when Sookie and Jackson did it with the baby monitor. This time was just annoying, I hate when they reuse jokes. I liked the girl's showing up in Babette's. I miss Morey, but I did laugh out loud when Rory said she saw Jess at Weston's and Babette said "That little bastard!" [img]smilies/lol.gif[/img]

Emily had my favorite line of the episode:
Honestly Lorelai, it's not your looks that keep men away.
Lauren's face was fabulous. The grandparent's weren't given much to do this episode. The way Amy gushed about them in that recent article, you'd think she'd write something better for them.

I love you.

I'm a little confused about why she didn't use this as the perfect time for Lorelai to strut on the dance floor and plant a big wet one on Jason in front of her mother. Rip the bandaid off girl! But they didn't because she and Jason have plenty of chemistry and absolutely zero passion. I still don't get why. Lorelai also would have recognized his father. They've known each other since they were kids, and their fathers were partners at the firm. I wasn't buying that.

Gypsy is officially my favorite non-regular townie! She has the best lines.
"Whoa. She sounds mad."
"I've heard dumber things talk."
"Do not come again."

I love you.

If they had to pick one Stars Hollow event to show us onscreen each season, the Firelight Festival would be my choice. It makes the town look dreamy. I love Grant Lee Phillips. Not his acting, but put that man behind a guitar or singing a song as the troubador, and I melt. "Mona Lisa" is so beautiful. The new album comes out Feb 24th I believe.

Rory looks and acted like a 2 year old. I cannot believe they invoked the most horrible line every uttered on this show again. "This is MY town." I spit on that line. I hate it. They made poor Alexis run again. Cringeworthy, couldn't they attempt to write some good dialogue?

I love you. See how easy it is to just say? Unless you actually show someone that you love them, those are just three words...like "Shut up, Jess."

Jess is selfish, that's all. His return was for ratings (they went down this episode, which blows that theory out of the water, so even false Lit doesn't do the trick...hear that WB!?), but Milo has one more episode on Gilmore Girls before he says he gives up playing Jess for good, and I think that's when we'll get proper closure. This was just such a waste. Please do us all a favor and get it right in May. Thanks.

The Liz/Luke hug was really sweet. This show's not too subtle on the foreshadowing usually. I hope she does move back to Stars Hollow or at least comes back in May to get married in the town, and that's when Jess comes back. I could accept that reasoning. It's better than the car storyline.

Next week looks good. Luke looks hot.

[ 02-11-2004: Message edited A. B. Normal ]