[~*Sonia E.*~]

Personalized vows would have been great. I like yours and I wonder what Liz would have said to Max.

[Hell on Heels]

I promise to never let you be wanting.

[~*Sonia E.*~]

That's great!

[Hell on Heels]

To be a fly on the wall!

[Shirisomi]

When Max proposed to Liz, he didn't say he loved her, that is the most important thing though.
Max's proposal was beautiful, but it didn't a whole to me because of that.

[*Coccy*]

Originally Posted by Hell on Heels (View Post) I promise to never let you be wanting.

perfect

Originally Posted by Shirisomi (View Post) When Max proposed to Liz, he didn't say he loved her, that is the most important thing though. Max's proposal was beautiful, but it didn't a whole to me because of that.

it's true but i think that we didn't really miss it
I mean, for example it's something that i casually noticed after i had watched the scene a million of times. Because he said it, but into a different way. he said something that was bigger than the simple i love you.
Not to mention that they had said it so many times and they proved it with their life.
But I think that his whole speech was his way to say "i love you" but it was way more than this.
he was basically telling her that she was the only important thing for him and he wanted to live only for 12 days but with her instead of a lifetime but without her.
She said "i would do anything if it means being with you" and we're talking about a boy who literally killed himself for her in the other episode after his soul survived only for the memory of her. The implication of that speech was huge.
in a way.. I love you doesn't describe the complexity and transcendence of that love.. so it became useless in that moment. You hear it, you don't need the specific words.

it's a bit like for the phrase
i thought that you didn't believe in God
I believe in YOU

the "i believe in you" was more than an ILY for me. the implication of it especially in that scene was huge. he went beyond "common" love, if this makes sense

[Hell on Heels]

I agree with you. He said I love you in different words and the tears in his eyes spoke the truth.

[*Coccy*]

If i can be honest i hate when the speeches are full of i love you's
don't get me wrong, sometimes you should say it i'm not saying that "i love you" is always useless BUT some couples say it so many times that it seems fake to me. It's about the way and the scenes.
yesterday i watched a scene about another couple, for example, where the guy was hateful and he treated her so bad all the time.. and then in the end of the episode he suddenly said I love you i don't know how many times in the same phrase. so cheesyyy. So? You treated her like crap all the time and i'm supposed to luuuuuv this scene just because you say i love you tons of times? O_o suuuure. more concreteness please.
you can't just say it, you have to prove it!

some people criticized M&L saying that they were cheesy but honestly some "cool" couples are way worse. M&L were sweet and romantic but they were real too, they were never just words for them. They always proved with concrete things what they said


I think that his proposal is even more beautiful like that. The simple fact that i don't need the common "i love you" and i *hear* it however when i see the scene is very telling. To me this is when a love scene really works.
The best proposals don't always have the I love you the cheesy and cheap ones from C movies always have it because the whole proposal is only that


anyway one of my fav I love you by them, apart from the ones from destiny, is the one from secrets and lies when Max was in the car with that girl and Liz was jealous

this one:

Max: What's a clapper loader?
Bunny: Oh! He's the guy who bangs the thing and goes, "take one, take two."
Max: Oh.
Liz: Who are you with?
Max: Uh... A friend. I'm just taking her back to her place.
Liz: Her place?
Max: I mean, I'm just dropping her off. She's helping me. We're getting off the subject.
Liz: Ok, uh... Well, here's the theory. If the clapper loader is the shapeshifter, then i'm thinking that maybe that's his base form.
Max: The body he always goes back to.
Liz: Right.
Liz: And if that's true, maybe if we can find out what this clapper loader looked like in 1959...
Max: He might still look like that today.
Liz: Exactly.
Max: Ok. So how do we find out what this guy looked like?
Liz: Well, he'll be on all the film. He's not in the actual movie, but he'll be in all the dailies.
Max: What are dailies?
Bunny: Dailies? Dailies are all the footage they shoot in one day. You know, like outtakes, bloopers, alternate angles. That stuff.
Max: Thanks.
Liz: I'm really glad that she's so helpful.
Max: Ahem. So how do we get ahold of 50-year-old dailies?
Liz: Well, I did some research, and I found out that the rights to they are among us were eventually sold to paramount pictures, so all of their dailies should be in their film vaults.
Max: God, i love you!
Liz: Well, did she hear that?
Max: Definitely.
Liz: Good. Call me when you find a way out to the paramount lot. Alone.

i loved it
the way he said that i love you was so cute, it came so spontaneously <3
and the scene is funny too
i love his smile
they're so cute because even if she teased him it was obvious that she wasn't really jealous in the way "i don't trust you"

[Shirisomi]

I understand your point of view Coccy, but I really wanted to hear the word I love you
He was proposing to the love of his life, his soulmate, at that moment I love you would not be just a word. that couldn't be between them.
Because they truly loved each other and Max would say the word with his whole heart.

IMO if he said I love you at that moment, his proposal would be really great and would be complete.

[*Coccy*]

idk, to me he said it into another better and more meaningful way and the ily wasn't really needed *there* because it was already there idk...you don't kill yourself for a friend i think.

Liz didn't say it too.. but when she said something like "i would do anything if it means being with you" you really don't need the i love you too. it's there.

in that scene the i love you was like "oh you love her, i didn't understand it before you said it *put sarcasm here*"

[~*Sonia E.*~]

Max saying ILY in his proposal would have been great and a simple declaration of love. I like the proposal because it wasn't simple just like Max and Liz's love for one another. They went through a lot of trials and tribulations and proved their love at the end of it all, so I like the words Max said to Liz and vice versa.

And Liz was so jealous over Max being with Bunny. It was a cute scene.

[*Coccy*]

i personally think/get the impression that when the writers wrote the proposal scene they didn't even think about the ILY. And it's something very telling about the couple for me. It means that they didn't *need* it.
when you writer don't need to put tons of ily for a couple and you can even forget about it because it seems that it's there however... then it means that you already created an amazing couple where their love for each other is already so obvious and people *see* it, they don't need a confirmation. I don't know if what i said makes sense or i really explained what i mean.
but i think that for a writer this is a victory.


now this discussion makes me remember about the commentary from the balance by one of the writers, Thania St. John, about the last scene when Max broke up with Liz and Liz kissed him.
I think that i'm, kinda, saying the same thing she said here:


"and here it comes. That's the moment where they know in their hearts that they're in love with each other. They've never said it. He doesn't actually say it now either. But what he's telling her is 'I'm breaking out with you because I'm in love with you' - and the pain in her heart right now is making her angry yet she understands. But she's still so alone when he walks down that... and we know that they belong together and they're in love and what Max is doing right now is for the good of both of them. And half way thought our first season we've broken them up and yet we've completely allowed them to profess their love for each other at the same time.
We've given ourselves more fodder for the back half of the season because the love story really needed a wrench thrown into it. We wanted to see what it was like for them to be so happy so that we would know ultimately what they needed to search for and find and live thorough the pain to get there again.


when i heard it the first thing i thought was "it's so true!" because from the first time i watched that scene i always thought the same identical thing, that there was an I love you there and it was the core reason of why he was being so protective and so scared for her, for them. They already loved each other very much and this made them more fragile because they had everything to lose while, into a way, being together can be way more easy when two people are not in love with each other yet.

you know what Max did, in that scene from the balance, is what Michael did in destiny toward Maria. the whole i'm breaking up with you because i'm dangerous and i love you too much i can't put you in danger.
In the books Max is even worse soo protective.


if i can be honest (and it's not bashing) it seems that Michael always did things that were something that Max already did before him
another example is departure with the reversed connection. I smile when it seems that for some fans what he did was a "new unique thing never watched before" because technically he just "copied" something that Max had already done in the pilot the only difference is that Michael made her see inside him when they were already a couple and he knew that she loved him back while Max gave his soul to a girl that *he* loved but he didn't know that she could have loved him too, on the contrary he felt hopeless and he gave his soul without asking something on return or feeling that he could get something from her. I don't even think that Max controlled the flashes and what she could see but he knew that she could have gotten *everything* and this made him more vulnerable.
anyway in roswell there're many examples of things that already happened between M&L and the writers used for other characters too but with a different interpretation. I guess that it's a normal thing in all the tv.shows.

[~*Sonia E.*~]

Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post) now this discussion makes me remember about the commentary from the balance by one of the writers, Thania St. John, about the last scene when Max broke up with Liz and Liz kissed him. I think that i'm, kinda, saying the same thing she said here: "and here it comes. That's the moment where they know in their hearts that they're in love with each other. They've never said it. He doesn't actually say it now either. But what he's telling her is 'I'm breaking out with you because I'm in love with you' - and the pain in her heart right now is making her angry yet she understands. But she's still so alone when he walks down that... and we know that they belong together and they're in love and what Max is doing right now is for the good of both of them. And half way thought our first season we've broken them up and yet we've completely allowed them to profess their love for each other at the same time. We've given ourselves more fodder for the back half of the season because the love story really needed a wrench thrown into it. We wanted to see what it was like for them to be so happy so that we would know ultimately what they needed to search for and find and live thorough the pain to get there again. when i heard it the first thing i thought was "it's so true!" because from the first time i watched that scene i always thought the same identical thing, that there was an I love you there and it was the core reason of why he was being so protective and so scared for her, for them. They already loved each other very much and this made them more fragile because they had everything to lose while, into a way, being together can be way more easy when two people are not in love with each other yet.

Even though that was a sad scene for both Max and Liz, you could tell that they were in love with each other. I like how TSJ describes the feelings and emotions between Max and Liz in that scene.

Originally Posted by *Coccy* (View Post) if i can be honest (and it's not bashing) it seems that Michael always did things that were something that Max already did before him another example is departure with the reversed connection. I smile when it seems that for some fans what he did was a "new unique thing never watched before" because technically he just "copied" something that Max had already done in the pilot the only difference is that Michael made her see inside him when they were already a couple and he knew that she loved him back while Max gave his soul to a girl that *he* loved but he didn't know that she could have loved him too, on the contrary he felt hopeless and he gave his soul without asking something on return or feeling that he could get something from her. I don't even think that Max controlled the flashes and what she could see but he knew that she could have gotten *everything* and this made him more vulnerable. anyway in roswell there're many examples of things that already happened between M&L and the writers used for other characters too but with a different interpretation. I guess that it's a normal thing in all the tv.shows.

The only difference is that when Max did things for Liz especially romantic things they were considered cheesy and boring by some, but when Michael did them for Maria they were more real and meaningful. I very much prefer Max's way and how he treated Liz with respect and love. That's not to say that Max and Liz were perfect and they never treated each other bad, but I loved their relationship from the start.

[*Coccy*]

Originally Posted by ~*Sonia E.*~ (View Post) Even though that was a sad scene for both Max and Liz, you could tell that they were in love with each other. I like how TSJ describes the feelings and emotions between Max and Liz in that scene.

she was one of the best writers, too bad that she wasn't there in the second season

The only difference is that when Max did things for Liz especially romantic things they were considered cheesy and boring by some, but when Michael did them for Maria they were more real and meaningful. I very much prefer Max's way and how he treated Liz with respect and love. That's not to say that Max and Liz were perfect and they never treated each other bad, but I loved their relationship from the start.

i know. I guess that the word "cheesy" can be very subjective and people use it only toward the couples that they don't like. LOL
when they like a couple they're not cheesy, they're sweet
It's always about double standard something that it's used for many things in this fandom.. and obviously Max is a good victim of it.

I hate people criticizing M&L for their sweetness and then loving couples that are worse (now i'm talking about all the shows)

the truth is that everyone would love a romantic boyfriend even if they won't admit it.

anyway i think that some things can be objectively cheesy for most of the people but it's also true that when two people are in love they show it to a degree. It's not abnormal for them to do it they're weird the ones who don't do it
but lets face is, love IS sweet, along with other things
I think that M&L were a sweet adorable and passionate couple. I never found them cheesy or sappy because i associate these words to the real meaning of them: fake and poor quality/cheap/shallow. And M&L were everything but fake and cheap or shallow, they felt natural and real to me.

cheesy couples are the ones where the romance is forced
cheesy was Tess making a heart with her initials and Max's on a paper (something that i stopped to do since i was 12 years old --- Max was more original, for Liz he made the heart on a wall.. and he was drunk, anyway ) before she mindwarped him again in a moment when she perfectly knew that he was unhappy and what they were living was fake and he was supposed to die however. Not to mention her prom card (where i think that Emilie totally made fun of her character, if that thing was really original)


M&L are a couple who knew what it means to be separated so when they were finally together they savored the moment.
I like couples that do always kiss like if it's the first and the last kiss they share, couples were showing their passion for each other is not granted and always implicit.

[Hell on Heels]

Those prom cards were so funny!!

Time for a new thread!