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Old 07-02-2014, 04:03 PM
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Life as a shipper is sometimes hard work
Totally agree with that!
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Old 07-03-2014, 01:15 AM
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Sooo in the Luka/Abby thread there is a discussion on the build up to their second reconciliation and how L/A always had feelings for each other. I was just wondering if you guys feel a similar way about Carter/Abby? Obviously Luka and Abby ended up together and Carter and Abby didn't but I always thought the writing had supported a reconciliation later down the line and always hinted that things weren't quite as finished as they seemed.

The one thing that irks me about ER is that I never felt Carter ended up with the right person. It's not even about Abby here. I really dislike Kem as a character. I don't understand how the audience is supposed to root for a couple who appear out of nowhere, especially when the last three seasons have had Carter in love with Abby. Kem to me felt more like a plot device than a fleshed out character. For someone who loves Carter, it's really unsatisfying,

Back to my original point, I felt in season 10 that it was Carter and Abby's time away to grow up and get back on track as both characters had ended up a bit lost and it was something they had to do by themselves and for themselves. A few moments where I thought their old connection shone through: Abby telling Carter he was going to be an amazing father, her being there for him in midnight and the episodes after. Him being there when she found out she passed her boards!!!! I can't stress enough how important I think that was. It could have been any character: Susan, Luka, anyone, instead they had Carter. And also him looking back at her after he walked away. It's been a whole since I watched season 11 so I'm a little rustier. I always thought Carter's reaction to Abby and Luka's pregnancy was a parallel to Abby's reaction to Kem's pregnancy; bittersweet. Also the exchange between Sam/Carter in season 15 about Luka/Abby as soon as he gets back. I'm not saying any of this is romantic build up, it isn't. Just that there were still complex feelings on both sides! What do you guys think?
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:15 AM
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Sooo in the Luka/Abby thread there is a discussion on the build up to their second reconciliation and how L/A always had feelings for each other. I was just wondering if you guys feel a similar way about Carter/Abby? Obviously Luka and Abby ended up together and Carter and Abby didn't but I always thought the writing had supported a reconciliation later down the line and always hinted that things weren't quite as finished as they seemed.

The one thing that irks me about ER is that I never felt Carter ended up with the right person. It's not even about Abby here. I really dislike Kem as a character. I don't understand how the audience is supposed to root for a couple who appear out of nowhere, especially when the last three seasons have had Carter in love with Abby. Kem to me felt more like a plot device than a fleshed out character. For someone who loves Carter, it's really unsatisfying,

Back to my original point, I felt in season 10 that it was Carter and Abby's time away to grow up and get back on track as both characters had ended up a bit lost and it was something they had to do by themselves and for themselves. A few moments where I thought their old connection shone through: Abby telling Carter he was going to be an amazing father, her being there for him in midnight and the episodes after. Him being there when she found out she passed her boards!!!! I can't stress enough how important I think that was. It could have been any character: Susan, Luka, anyone, instead they had Carter. And also him looking back at her after he walked away. It's been a whole since I watched season 11 so I'm a little rustier. I always thought Carter's reaction to Abby and Luka's pregnancy was a parallel to Abby's reaction to Kem's pregnancy; bittersweet. Also the exchange between Sam/Carter in season 15 about Luka/Abby as soon as he gets back. I'm not saying any of this is romantic build up, it isn't. Just that there were still complex feelings on both sides! What do you guys think?
Carter was in love with Abby for the last three seasons? I thought he was married to Kem from Seasons 12 to 15.

I think Abby and Carter will always have a very special bond with each other. For all the reasons you listed already, their chemistry won't disappear as special friends. They're always there for each other and happy when they're happy for the other in their own lives. It's natural for the feeling to be bittersweet about Kem's and Abby's pregnancy because Abby never got to raise a family with Carter and Carter, while married to Kem, didn't get to have a baby with Abby and he was probably thinking he could have as he thought about his own son who died.

But as a romantic couple, it was pretty obvious it wasn't working out and Carter may have explained it all why in his letter to Abby when Luka got back from Africa. It would've been nice if they had mentioned a few things about what the letter said but apparently, whatever it was, it was the reason why Carter broke up with Abby. They just didn't have the same feelings about everything that would keep a relationship together. Abby had a drinking problem and Carter had some problems of his own. At the end of "Foreign Affairs," Carter just pushed her away and then in "A Thousand Cranes," they were sitting in the restaurant talking about change. Carter was hoping for change and Abby didn't think there was anything wrong with keeping the way things were. He was about to propose and had the ring out but after Carter realized that Abby was fine with the way things were, he backed out and put the ring back in his pocket. To me, I think Carter kinda wanted to be Abby's hero or something because he was hoping to change her or "fix" her. He did mention in "Chaos Theory" that he wanted to make things work so that he could be with her, even if that meant "fixing" Abby's alcohol problems. If you really love someone, you'll not only help them but be with them, no matter what. Carter just sounded like he was giving her an ultimatum: quit drinking or I won't be with you. I just think as a romantic couple, they were just unhappy at many times but as special friends, they were much happier and supported each other. They've given us a lot to remember.
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Old 07-03-2014, 10:58 AM
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I meant he was in love with Abby from seasons 7, 8 and 9. Sorry, I'm on my phone so I might be unclear.

I think that the line "they weren't really happy when they were together" isn't exactly true. I've rewatched season 9 three times in the past year and for the first half of it (up until Carter's epic fail of a proposal) they are happy. They obviously have their problems, Abby is drinking and Carter is being Carter about it. But they aren't unhappy together at all. I think it is all things they could have overcome. People also always say "Carter wanted to fix her". I don't think that's exactly true either. He wanted Abby to fight her demons and escape the cycle of doom she was in. I'm not going to argue about the fact that he should have stayed if he loved her. I agree with you. But everyone acts as though the proposal failure is the reason they broke up. They actually broke up because Abby put her family above Carter's emotional needs, not once but twice. Things obviously weren't peachy at the end of season 9 but it wasn't anything they couldn't have come back from. And they WERE good the majority of season 9.
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Last edited by alwaysbeenyou; 07-03-2014 at 11:10 AM
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:00 PM
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They actually broke up because Abby put her family above Carter's emotional needs, not once but twice.
Blood is thicker than water, Abby's family may not have been that close but they were still her family and will always be her family. Carter was being such a baby when Abby went to get her brother, well guess what, Eric could take of at any moment and Abby may never hear from him again. Carter could have gotten the support he needed over the phone, I know it's not the ideal way but what else was Abby to do?
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:39 PM
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I've got to agree on the blood vs water thing. First of all, Eric was cycling and in an incredibly bad place, and Abby was one of the few people he had to help him with a disease that was not his fault. Second, Abby showed up to his grandfather's funeral even after he'd been kind of a jerk about Luka, so she ought to have some credit in the bank for that. Third, I know grief can't be quantified, but Gamma was very old, had lived a good life, and had died peacefully. He also had two parents, albeit dysfunctional ones, in his life. That's a blessing a lot of people don't have, let alone with a girlfriend at their side (who Gamma had made clear she didn't like, for what that's worth).

Carter always seemed to view Abby's family as a burden or an inconvenience and while he should be commended for usually being there for her when those issues arose, it often highlighted his savior complex whereby he rode in on a silver steed (steed being a metaphor for private travel agent) to rescue her. It's nice to be able to alleviate the financial burden associated with those difficulties, but I think sometimes he used it, perhaps unconsciously, as a means of trying to fix things when the issue was much deeper. I'm not critical of his charitable nature, but I think if Carter had a nice long talk with a psychologist, he'd uncover some issues that tied his money, his Gamma, and his love affair with the dark continent together. I don't know if they'd have time to get to what he saw in Kem, though. She was just a pain in the butt.

I don't think Abby and Carter were happy when they were together, either. But that's in large part because they weren't happy as individuals. I think their relationship allowed them both to deny the things that were truly broken in their lives instead of confronting them, and I think they would have managed to ignore it even if Abby had "replapse" tattooed on her forehead and Carter had "mind your own business" on his.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:16 AM
  #52
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I'm not sure we are even watching the same show at this point? I don't really understand where you get that Carter thought of Abby's family as an inconvience. Literally the ONLY time it's an issue is in at the end of season 9. I do think he has a saviour complex. So I'm not gonna argue with that one. But by the end of season 9, he realised the only person who can "fix" Abby is Abby. Obviously Abby will always have her issues but she realised this too as she immediately goes back to med school, stops drinking and has a more positive demeanour from season 10 onwards. At least Carter managed to have some kind of relationship with Maggie and Eric. Luka was the one who acted as though Abby's family was an inconvience in season 7 and even in season 13 when Maggie reappeared.

Blood vs Water. If Carter hadn't constantly been there for Abby during every issue that arose, I would agree with you. But Carter had lost the one stable family member in the world, regardless of if she had a long happy life, he was still devastated. I am close to my Gran, if I lost her I would be grief stricken too. Carter had every right to feel abandoned. He's hardly being a baby.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:33 AM
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Carter certainly made Abby feel guilty for going to get her brother with that comment of my Grandma will still be dead when you get back. Yes she will Carter, and if Abby doesn't go get Eric now, he could take off again and the next phone call she gets will be that Eric is dead. As for Luka seeing Maggie as an inconvenience is season 7, Maggie was out of control and Luka could see how much it was hurting Abby to see her like that. His approach was not the best but Maggie was hurting some he cared about and he found it hard to be nice to her. Carter, being a supportive friend dealt with Maggie and Abby a lot better in S7.
As for Maggie's return with Joe, Luka was really trying to do the tightrope walk with Maggie and Abby, trying not to offend either while they go through a highly stressful situation.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:24 PM
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Carter certainly made Abby feel guilty for going to get her brother with that comment of my Grandma will still be dead when you get back. Yes she will Carter, and if Abby doesn't go get Eric now, he could take off again and the next phone call she gets will be that Eric is dead. As for Luka seeing Maggie as an inconvenience is season 7, Maggie was out of control and Luka could see how much it was hurting Abby to see her like that. His approach was not the best but Maggie was hurting some he cared about and he found it hard to be nice to her. Carter, being a supportive friend dealt with Maggie and Abby a lot better in S7.
As for Maggie's return with Joe, Luka was really trying to do the tightrope walk with Maggie and Abby, trying not to offend either while they go through a highly stressful situation.
I agree with this. That comment Carter made about his grandmother still being dead when Abby gets back was kinda babyish but at the same time, it was understandable. He was upset at the time about his grandmother's death and I think he felt guilty because he knew she called days before and he didn't answer. I felt that he depended on Abby for his happiness and comfort. The timing was just bad with his grandmother's death and girlfriend's brother missing then returning off his meds but bad timing happens. At least Abby did make up for it by going to Gamma's funeral. Carter needed to understand that he's not the only one under a lot of stress. Abby had things on her plate to worry about too. It was mentioned earlier but both were just unhappy as individuals and I think that's what broke them up in a way.

I think Carter dealt with Abby much better in S7 because they weren't dating. Look at S9. Abby was dealing with Abby (and Eric) again and when Carter wanted to know what's going on in "Next of Kin" when they were on the stairs, Abby didn't want to talk about it and Carter looked frustrated. He wasn't really excited at Doc Magoo's, either when Abby told him what happened at the treatment center and Carter was frustrated with how unhappy this seemed to be making Abby, pretty much like Luka was in S7. Luka was just more involved with Abby in S7.
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:55 PM
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I'm going to reply to these when I have my laptop back because 1. I've got so much to say and 2. I'm so frustrated so it'll give me a chance to calm down
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Old 07-04-2014, 03:07 PM
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Maybe we're not watching the same show. I didn't take Luka's behavior in s7 as an indication that he thought Maggie was a burden. I saw it as another layer on the cake of them not knowing how to communicate with each other and both of them being afraid to try. As for season 13 - what?? Where are you getting that? Abby was a lot more resistant to Maggie's support than Luka was. I always assumed Luka had been the one to call her (granted, I don't think he invited her to Chicago, but that's Maggie.)

WRT Carter, maybe inconvenience was the wrong word. It was more like he viewed them as Abby's burden that he could save her from, but his behavior at the end of the season demonstrated that he was only willing to help so long as it was on his terms. I get that he was sad, I get that losing a grandparent is hard, but Carter seemed to think he deserved Abby more than Eric did. Like he thought he deserved Abby more than Luka did. To quote Princess Jasmine:



(Wow, I just realized I could do a whole metaphor on this love triangle and Aladdin. I won't, though.)

Let's talk about how much we hate Kem now so that we can agree on something.
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Old 07-04-2014, 04:49 PM
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I'm not saying any of this is romantic build up, it isn't. Just that there were still complex feelings on both sides! What do you guys think?
Boom! Right on with the complex feelings on both sides, they started as co-workers then AA sponsorships, friends, lovers back to friends. There is going to be layers of feelings and I'm sure there were points in S10 & 11 where they had these "what if" moments. If they were less effed up it may have worked out and by the time they worked on themselves they had both moved on.

I always felt that Carter's feelings for Abby were much stronger than her feelings for him. It could be because she kept herself guarded at that time but mostly I think she went with him because he was safe and they communicated well as friends so she gave the romance a shot.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:41 PM
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The kiss between abby and carter in 'lockdown' made me ship them so hard, carter loved abby a lot, like realllly cared for her, not just a lust. the way the writers even wrote it they made abby have carter on her mind so much, even in the book of abby, she straight up notices carters name isn't on the wall and writes in for her to say that, i just like those little moments.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:41 PM
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I loved their little moments too.
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Old 12-04-2014, 07:44 AM
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Does anyone remember that red carpet interview with Maura at the series finale party? She was talking about different people on the show, then Noah came along and nudged her so she said, "And Noah Wyle of course!". It was cute.
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