James Van Der Beek - The official JVDB brick throwing society #2 ...we miss the good old days of fish slapping...not! - Page 7

**JenMixelle** · 11-07-2009, 01:44 PM

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When the show was being written i remember reading (I think maybe Tom Kapinos said it) that the show was about two soulmates who met too young and how they deal with these strong feelings at this age and find they're way back to eachother. It wasn't about that they weren't romantic. It was that their romance was too strong for them to handle at that age. And I feel like this is what the show did portray....up until the series finale.

I so totally agree with this. That was what the show was supposed to be about.

**Chase.This.Light** · 11-07-2009, 04:19 PM

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Originally Posted by dcluv (View Post)

When the show was being written i remember reading (I think maybe Tom Kapinos said it) that the show was about two soulmates who met too young and how they deal with these strong feelings at this age and find they're way back to eachother. It wasn't about that they weren't romantic. It was that their romance was too strong for them to handle at that age. And I feel like this is what the show did portray....up until the series finale.

I remember this and agreeing with it.

Also, Kimberly - I think this completely summed it up for me.

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They've already stabbed us. They didn't need to twist the knife.

**Pure.Magic** · 11-08-2009, 09:56 AM

I agree with you, Kimberly. The way they tried to redefine "soulmates" in the finale was pathetic. Even more was how they tried to show that DJ werent "romantic", that they were 'pure and innocent' throughout. Excuse me while I go find my eyeballs, they rolled away. Did they even watch the show?

**dcluv** · 11-08-2009, 10:37 AM

I was gonna say that kevin's idea of what DC was would make for a good show, but i think it's already done - Lucas/Haley on One Tree Hill. They could be considered soulmates. And they weren't romantic. His description does not fit D/J as they were on the show, but fits Lucas/Haley.

Edoardo · 11-08-2009, 12:36 PM

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Edoardo - ITA, if PJ were seen as making sense to some people then I guess we were watching a different show. Had the dialogue been different in the finale, then maybe yeah it'd have possibly, if you really look for it, made sense but not convinced now, wasn't convinced then.

Yes, I agree with you. If the dialogue had been different, maybe, the finale made sense, just a bit, but I can't accept that Joey says that her feelings for Dawson were eternally pure and innocent or that she wanted Pacey all along and escaped from him for all the time or that Pacey always, always, loved Joey or that they were the heros of bad timing. Their 'story isn't like that, it's very simple. When "Modern Romance" aired, I remember that I loved so much that episode but now I hated it because a lot of persons (Williamson, Stupin, PJers etc) used that, sadly, as a squalid pretext to say that Pacey and Joey were meant to be together. We know that it's untrue.

And we know that Williamson changed the finale, right? Well, I think that he probably only replaced Dawson's name with Pacey's name because Joey wanted Dawson before that she felt in love with Pacey, she always escaped from her soulmate (in all the seasons), and, especially, she has never been over Dawson; even in the season 4, when she was with Pacey, her feelings for Dawson were still there. Do you remember "Four Stories"? In the finale scene Dawson asked her if she slept with Pacey; well, if Joey had been over Dawson: why to lie? I remember that Tom Kapinos, who wrote that episode, in an interview, went on to explain his point of view about that lie:

First of all she didn't want to hurt Dawson.. but that isn't the only reason, she doesn't want to give to him as a pretext for going to bed with Gretchen.. my feelings are this, and this is just one writer's opinion, but to me the show is about Dawson and Joey and it's about these two people who meet really young, and they are sort of meant to be. They are soulmates, but life gets in the way, and it's impossible when you're that young to sustain a relationship like that. So each person has to go off and have other relationships that are positive and real and important. I think Dawson and Joey ultimately... I would like to think they would make their way back to each other, but in the meantime they have all these other relationships to explore.

On the other hand, I remember that Paul Stupin, talking about how long a couple should be together, said:

Dawson and Joey: The entire first season was built around the audience wanting Dawson to finally notice that Joey was in love with him. The long build up was what made it so satisfying when they finally kissed in Dawson's bedroom. However, since their relationship was the basis of the show, having them stay together from Season 2 on wouldn't provide for interesting drama. Having them face challenges and still find their way back to each other made their relationship interesting.

Pacey and Andie: From the minute they ran into each other, literally, there were sparks and those sparks stayed ignited through all of Season 2. Their chemistry inspired us and we found we could have fun with these characters and really explore their relationship throughout 22 episodes.

Joey and Pacey: From the minute they were sitting on the dock together at the end of #301, the chemistry between them was evident but it wasn't until halfway through the season that you could tell Pacey was starting to admit to himself that he had feelings for Joey. We intentionally took that slowly in order to really develop it – longer than we even took with Dawson and Joey – and after spending all that time leading up to their kiss and Joey ultimately choosing Pacey, we knew we really wanted to give their relationship a chance to grow. This entire season (the fourth) has really been devoted to the two of them as a couple, but still never losing sight of the bond Dawson and Joey share.

A Free Newsletter for Fans!
Tuesday May 1st, 2001
EDITION # 131

Dawson's Creek newsletter

again:

Question for Paul Stupin: Why have the writers decided that Dawson would have a girlfriend and still make love to Joey?

Paul: Well Vicky, we wanted to start out the year with a bang (no pun intended) so we all felt that after six years it was time to get Dawson and Joey together. But at the same time we wanted to make their relationship interesting, unpredictable, and true to life. Since the two had not been in touch during the summer, it would be very true to life that Dawson might have a girlfriend. And as you can imagine, rather than guaranteeing a straight line to a storybook romance, sex more often than not complicates matters, especially with these two. But don’t give up hope..

A Free Newsletter for Fans!
Wednesday October 16th, 2002
EDITION #199

Dawson's Creek newsletter

and again:

I sort of always make the case that [Dawson's Creek] is about a pair of soulmates who met too young, and that's who Joey and Dawson are, but part of the power of our show is, how do these people still manage to find their way back to each other (Greg Berlanti at Tv Guide)

The Deflowering of Dawson's Joey - Today's News: Our Take | TVGuide.com

and again:

Hello Paul. This is the week we've all been waiting for: Our 100th episode, quite a landmark moment in television. How has the show evolved over the years?

PAUL: Looking back, Dawson's has really been an evolution of relationships. Season One was unlike any other in the fact that we shot all thirteen episodes before even one had aired. We knew the show was about Dawson and Joey but we were all still trying to find the character's voices and explore their personalities. It was difficult doing all of this without being able to get the fans input since no one had seen the show yet. By Season Two we felt we had a grasp on the Dawson/Joey dynamic and decided to further develop the character of Pacey. The best way to do this was to give him a relationship of his own, thus Andie McPhee was born. Season Three was the year that brought all the D/Jers and P/Jers out of the closet. The writers had developed the character of Pacey so well that we created this undeniable chemistry between Pacey and Joey that was impossible to ignore. Since then we have seen our kids graduate from high school and move out of Capeside, exploring new worlds while at the same time still trying to sustain their lifelong friendships with each other.

A Free Newsletter for Fans!
Monday April 15th, 2002
EDITION #177

Dawson's Creek newsletter

and again:

Tom Kapinos: To me, Dawson and Joey is what the show is really about. And as much as I love writing scenes for Pacey and Joey, the show is really about Dawson and Joey, these two friends who fell in love, but then life got in the way. But I truly believe that they'll eventually find their way back to each other.

Dawson's Creek - Chat transcripts

and again:

Ann: It is so depressing that DC hired two more Dawson and Joey supporters. Who is going to represent the Pacey and Joey love story? I don't understand why both Anna and Jason are coming from the same place rather than having someone who loves Pac and Jo and their great story. I am sure you will both do your best but lets face it you're already biased. Besides the zillions of fans who love Pacey and Joey and the few great writers and of course Josh and Katie and the WB it would have been nice to have the desktops somewhat represented. How are writers chosen?

Anna Fricke: Hi Ann. I wanted to answer your question as an opportunity to make a statement about where I stand on the whole Dawson/Joey/Pacey thing (not that everyone necessarily cares) so here goes. Please don't think that Jason and I care solely about Dawson and Joey. But since you'll probably think that anyway, I'll say this: I do think that this show, regardless of my opinion, is about the love between Dawson and Joey. When you cut everything else away, those two are at the heart. Do I think they should be together all the time? No, that would be boring and unrealistic. And I think Joey and Pacey genuinely loved each other and always will--they had the kind of relationship you don't easily forget. But they were simply heading in different direction from each other. But P/J fans, you must admit that those two lasted longer than any other couple on the show! There must be some satisfaction in that. Okay, probably not. Oh, and as for how the writers are chosen… I'm pretty sure that when Paul and Tom interview new writers, they never ask them if they're fans of Pacey/Joey or Pacey/Dawson. In fact, it's their job to try and like whomever they're writing for at the moment. Co-executive Gina Fattore has been roasted for being a supposed P/J fan, although she stands by the statement that she's behind "Joey and literature" as a couple. I was always a Joey/Drue fan myself, but those days are over. Perhaps Jack/Dawson?

Ask Anna and Jason

Dawson's Creek -- Official site

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The way they tried to redefine "soulmates" in the finale was pathetic

Exactly!!!

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You were there, Edordo?!! I both envy you and dont. Im sure seeing James in person must be something else. But I wouldnt have wanted to sit through all of them justifying the finale, and blah blahing about how it was right for the show.

Yeah, I was there with friends. This year we wanted to spend Halloween in the USA. As I said, it was beautiful to see them in person but it was very sad to hear them talking about the series finale.

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You're lucky that you got to see James in person Edoardo!

I couldn't agree with you more. I just ranted the same thing on the d/j thread. The panel really upset me. And I don't think their idea of the show matches what we actually happened in the episdoes. It just doesn't make senes. I think Kevin's idea of soulmates not having to end romantically is fine, but it's not what happened with dawson and joey. They developed so much more.

When the show was being written i remember reading (I think maybe Tom Kapinos said it) that the show was about two soulmates who met too young and how they deal with these strong feelings at this age and find they're way back to eachother. It wasn't about that they weren't romantic. It was that their romance was too strong for them to handle at that age. And I feel like this is what the show did portray....up until the series finale.

I quoted that Tom's interview

Actually, I remember that Kevin Williamson was the one, during the season 2, that said something like that before of others. Subsequently, year by year, Paul Stupin, Greg Gerlanti, Tom Kapinos and Anna Fricke repeated the same concept. So, the show wasn't about that they weren't a romantic couple.

Edoardo

**Chase.This.Light** · 11-08-2009, 01:34 PM

Kimberly - totally agree. If DC was to be about two friends, male and female and how they grow up - then I would not have shipped them...I don't think. I never shipped Lucas and Haley...there's also a possibility I woldn't have watched DC.

Edoardo love your post - so in essence, they DJ relationship of what they were to one another was only redefined as it was ending...in order to facilitate a PJ ending. Ridiculous doesn't even cut it.

Madison · 11-09-2009, 08:16 PM

I had a feeling this thread would be a bit active right now. I wonder why?!

Just reading you guys' comments makes me feel a little better. Like I said on the news thread, I didn't really expect them to go into their true feelings about the show, but James pretty much did...in so many words. And while his answers don't really surprise me, they still kinda sting. Even if we can deduce them to, "I don't really give a rat's a** how it ended"...and I think we pretty much can.

But really, why would they be completely open and honest about their opnions? They're trying to push the new DVD's. And on top of that, even IF any of them (mostly speaking about Kevin and Paul here) think the way everything ended was a mistake, why admit it now? Our peace of mind? HA! Not in a million years. Do I think they have it out for us? No. It's been too long. Do I think they care anymore? A big fat NO to that one as well.

Edoardo · 11-11-2009, 10:37 AM

Watch these two videos, please:

YouTube - 'Dawson's Creek' creator Kevin Williamson talks Pacey-Joey-Dawson

YouTube - 'Dawson's Creek': James Van Der Beek talks triangle with Korbi TV

To put it in a nutshell, in the first video, Kevin Williamson says that a soulmate is your best friend in the world. So, if Dawson was Pacey's best friend, even Dawson and Pacey were soulmates: right? Jack and Jen were soulmates and me and my best friend are soulmates. Everybody who has a best friend has a soulmate also.

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even IF any of them (mostly speaking about Kevin and Paul here) think the way everything ended was a mistake, why admit it now?

Because 6 years (+ 6 months) have gone and I think is stupid, after all that time, to justify a thing just so, in fact, stupid. I can't accept that concept 'cause I think that a "soulmate" is more than your long life best friend, is more than that: is lover, is mate, is everything. And I guess that Kevin Williamson hasn't always thought that a soulmate could be someone with whom you aren't involved in a romantic way. He changed the definition of soulmate when he changed the finale (that he had already wrote) and he changed it 'cause he wanted to satisfy the biggest part of the audience that, problably, was PJer.

Edoardo

**Chase.This.Light** · 11-11-2009, 04:39 PM

Someone (Cris I think) said somewhere that they were plugging the new DVD boxset release, so they were never gonna say it was wrong/stupid and then hope people would buy the DVD's.

Still not satisfied.

Lucas William · 11-11-2009, 11:03 PM

Hay I am Luke

I thought I would jump in on this Because the final has pissed me off for years. First I should say I don't hate anyone one the show but I do hate PJ. For KW to say that Dawson and Joey are soulmates and it is just best friends then why in season 3 did pacey ask Joey if she could love him like a soulmate. If it was just best friends why the heck would he want that. And if Dawson never had a chance and was just a friend then what is up with will Joey chose Pacey or Dawson thing in the final. If they wanted to sell the soulmate best friend thing Dawson should have been happy with a hot girl in the final. It just dose not make me happy at all to throw Dawson a crummy meeting in the last 2 sec. and be like all is right with the world. And why did KW push the Joey being so much in love with Dawson in season 1. She said what they have is more than just looks and she would wait forever for him. I do not buy she was not attracted to him ether she said he was a Leo or whatever and she sleep with him as grown ups in season 6 and was vary happy the next day. I guess i just don't get it.

**dcluv** · 11-12-2009, 07:05 AM

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I guess i just don't get it

^^welcome to the club...none of us get it. None of us will. Because it doesn't make sense when you take the entire series into consideration.

welcome to the james board!! It's great to see another D/J fan around

**JenMixelle** · 11-12-2009, 03:33 PM

Hey Luke, welcome on board... I was nodding my way through your comments.
None of it makes sense when out together. It's like adding two and two and ending with 157843620. Or something.

I wish someone had made Kevin watch the whole series and then asked him if he thought the finale made sense.

**Chase.This.Light** · 11-12-2009, 03:52 PM

Luke - welcome to the James board.

Totally agree - none of us get it.

Jen - I can work out that sum though

**JenMixelle** · 11-12-2009, 04:39 PM

Meh, DP corrected...

**Chase.This.Light** · 11-12-2009, 04:45 PM

Jen - I meant the 2 + 2