wickedrum

I didn't notice a leftward drift. But then again, they'll never be left enough for me

sum1

The leftwing branch of the party is too far left. Their politics are imbalanced. All extremes in politics are bad. To hell with the right and to hell with the left.

wickedrum

You should like Labour then

PhoenixRising

The left is lunacy, Rita. They've turned colleges and universities into insane asylums, they've poisoned free speech with their insane, ridiculous political correctness and identity politics, and they've become more of a cult than a political movement. They only adhere to science when it comes to climate change, but on everything else they toss science out of the window in favor of "personal lived experience and validation of ideology." They haven't changed since the Bolsheviks and they more closely resemble the Jonestown colony today.

sum1

Let's not beat up Rita, Alex. I like Starmer.

wickedrum

again, Starmer is not left enough for me

sum1

Thank god!

PhoenixRising

Sorry, sum1. I wasn't beating up on Rita, just leftism.

I think there are a lot of people who consider themselves "liberal" and who align themselves with the Left before they realize what they've signed on for, and by then it's too late. I agree with many of the tenants of Liberalism, including freedom of speech, due process, autonomy, meritocracy, and the quest for knowledge. Unfortunately, the Left doesn't believe in any of that

sum1

Trump actually tweeted a video in which a guy shouted "White power!" He's the white power president. Add this to his speech about "very fine people" and what do you get? Well, a guy whose father was arrested in a KKK meeting in Queens.

wickedrum

same thing

I/we don't? That's news to me.

Wanting equality and rights for everyone doesn't mean exceptional achievements can't be rewarded. It just means being rich for no just reason isn't considered one of those.

PhoenixRising

Sorry, I don't mean it to be.

Equality and rights for everyone isn't a bad thing. Expecting equality of outcome, status, and well being in a universe that has been structured on asymmetry for 13 billion years is a bit too much. For every one Mozart or Beethoven, there will be a thousand Antonio Salieris. I'll agree with you that the Kardashians, for example, are rich for no reason. But leftism too often seems to promote the idea that everyone must stay in their lane, and no one can drive any faster than the slowest car on the track.

Also, political correctness is a creation of the left and it is a cancer on freedom of speech and due process. The late comedian George Carlin nailed it when he said, "political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners." Many of the tenants of Liberalism have been viewed as "problematic" and inconvenient by the Left going all the way back to the Bolsheviks. There are areas where they intersect, but they often deviate in the most important areas. Equality and rights and good, but there's one word they keep leaving out... freedom. Leftists are collectivists, and human beings(especially in the west) have an independent, individualist streak that will always be in conflict with that.

Now, this doesn't mean that I believe that you're like that, Rita. But as I said before, many people who would consider themselves Liberals also call themselves "Left" and I think that's a mistake. I think it's wrong to conflate the two because there's so much about the Left, especially the modern Left, that is not liberal. I think many liberals align themselves with the left before they realize what they've allied themselves with.

I honestly think this guy doesn't even care anymore. I've said before that his Twitter account is his own worst enemy. He tweets from the hip and doesn't even think about the consequences.

wickedrum

There's a clear divide here between the liberals and the left so it's a bit different.

trump didn't always used to be this thick. There has got to be a mental decline there.

PhoenixRising

Yeah, that's kind of what I figured. In the UK I know that they're in totally different political parties as well, and if we had a parliamentary system here like you do over there we'd probably have the same thing. But here they're both crammed into the Democratic party, which is why it's often so schizophrenic.

Well, I think both Trump and Biden are in mental decline, which is why I'm so concerned about this election. I'd rather have Romney in there, or perhaps Rubio or Haley. I used to like the Democrats when Bill Clinton was president, but it was a different party then, uncorrupted by political correctness and identity politics, although it was still a bit compromised by elitism and globalism. But I just can't trust today's Democratic party to divorce themselves from the craziness that's infecting their party.

wickedrum

what happened to your Democrats is what happened to our Labour party. I'm not even sure if I can support them anymore.

I don't have much against Romney, apart from him being a mormon.

sum1

Trump has been in mental decline for a long time, but now he's desperate, so he's misfiring in all directions.