Nici Dawson

JoJoF92

aw

Persephone

My Kind Of Crazy

JoJoF92

cute pics

Persephone

Yes, they are.

My Kind Of Crazy

love the curly hair on her

Claire999

So apparently, until he was told otherwise by the creators, David Harbour believed in the theory that the demogorgon was a manifestation of Eleven's trauma. He talks about it in this video: https://youtu.be/3RFU2FX8BWc?t=696

Now, maybe there are different versions of the theory floating around out there, but the one I read states this:

"There's a theory that Mr Brenner (Papa) sexually abused Eleven, and that the monster is the creation of her trauma. Eleven herself explicitly states in dialogue that she is the monster. The exact meaning of this is ambiguous, but many have taken it to mean that the monster is literally her abuse personified. She brought it into reality using her powers during a session in the sensory-deprivation tank.

Many have also pointed to the fact that the monster in the season finale leaps to attack Mr Brenner, despite the opportunity to attack many other people standing closer, and despite Mr Brenner not bleeding in the scene.

Moreover, the monster's obsession with blood could be an allusion to Eleven's loss of hymen or vaginal bleeding from sexual abuse."

Maybe Mr. Harbour read a different theory that didn't go into sexual abuse, which I really hope is the case, because otherwise (until he was told it wasn't the case by the Duffers) it means he believed she was sexually abused, and when you have someone that close to the show who believes in something it only makes it more credible. And let's not forget - the Duffer brothers admitted that, before they planned to have the show go more seasons, the original plan WAS for El to die fighting the demogorgon. So perhaps it WAS their original intent to have the monster be a product of her abuse and they decided to deny it later on.

Claire999

After doing research on MKUltra I am now convinced that Eleven endured sexual abuse in the lab. The signs are all there, hidden in the show…

-The stick figure drawing with the “third leg”:

https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThi..._spoiler_ep_5/

-The phallic-looking silhouette of Papa’s belt strap:

https://imgur.com/a/SO6kQTK

-El having no qualms about disrobing in front of the boys
-El more than willingly leaning into the almost-kiss in the bathroom with Mike.

There’s also the damning evidence of rape/genital imagery in the show:

-demogorgon head looks like a flower (i.e. hymen, virginity, “defloration”)
-the gate looks like a vagina
-blood symbolism to represent hymen loss, vaginal bleeding

As someone on Reddit elaborated:

“There's a theory that Mr Brenner (Papa) sexually abused Eleven, and that the monster is the creation of her trauma. Eleven herself explicitly states in dialogue that she is the monster. The exact meaning of this is ambiguous, but many have taken it to mean that the monster is literally her abuse personified. She brought it into reality using her powers during a session in the sensory-deprivation tank.
Many have also pointed to the fact that the monster in the season finale leaps to attack Mr Brenner, despite the opportunity to attack many other people standing closer, and despite Mr Brenner not bleeding in the scene.
Moreover, the monster's obsession with blood could be an allusion to Eleven's loss of hymen or vaginal bleeding from sexual abuse.”

Now, I’m not saying it was necessarily Papa who sexually abused her. Could have been orderlies, which could explain why she got so mad that she killed them. As we saw, Papa always had someone else do the dirty work (throwing her in isolation) for him. Then again…there is the stick figure drawing and the phallic silhouette which seem to subtly imply that he was a sexual deviant.
Meanwhile my research on MKUltra revealed these disturbing details that make it hard for me to think that, in TWELVE YEARS in the lab, El wasn’t sexually abused or even raped…


From Wikipedia:

“[MKUltra] was not solely focused on LSD. Experimental subjects were subjected in various sub-projects to experiments involving sensory deprivation, sexual abuse (including rape), verbal abuse, and other forms of psychological manipulation. The CIA was particularly focused on eliciting an experience of "self-blame" in the victim of experiments, bringing them to believe that they were actually responsible for the methods employed upon them rather than the torturers. The CIA discovered that a permanent altering of behavior was possible with minimal to no physical contact with the subject, hence leaving no evidence of abuse. The primary goal was to determine and undermine every aspect of the target's sense of self: cultural, sexual, physical, emotional, and sociological.[4]"



From https://vigilantcitizen.com/moviesan...anger-things/:

“Although Eleven has “superpowers” that are deemed “pretty awesome” by her friends, they are clearly the product of years of abuse. Since birth, she has been programmed by a handler she calls “Papa” (an actual word used in MK programming). After spending her life confined inside the walls of a laboratory, Eleven can barely communicate and shows numerous signs of past trauma…”
“…When Eleven did not do as told by her handler, she is taken somewhere to be punished while her Papa watches. There are no boundaries to the abuse MK slaves go through…”
“…Eleven, who is wet from the rain, is given a change of clothes. She immediately undresses in front of her friends, causing them to freak out. This scene portrays the lack of privacy and boundaries in the minds of MK slaves and might imply sexual abuse in her past…”
“In Monarch programming, MK slaves are often made to wear wigs (often blonde) when in the real world.”
“The next day, Nancy*feels kind of ashamed and tells Steve that “everybody’s looking at her”. He tells her that it is not a big deal. Then, for no apparent reason, he points to a butterfly on her locked and says “Hmmm”. If you are new to this site, butterflies represent Monarch programming.”
From https://vigilantcitizen.com/hidden-k...mind-control/:
“Monarch Programming is a method of mind control used by numerous organizations for covert purposes. It is a continuation of project MK-ULTRA, a mind-control program developed by the CIA, and tested on the military and civilians. The methods are astonishingly sadistic (its entire purpose is to traumatize the victim)* and the expected results are horrifying: The creation of a mind-controlled slave who can be triggered at anytime to perform any action required by the handler.* While mass media ignores this issue, over 2 million Americans have gone through the horrors of this program. This article looks at the origins of Monarch programming and some of its methods and symbolism.”
“Monarch slaves are mainly used by organizations to carry out operations using patsies trained to perform specific tasks, who do not question orders, who do not remember their actions and, if discovered, who automatically commit suicide.”

“Monarch programmers cause intense trauma to subjects through the use of electroshock, torture, abuse and mind games in order to force them to dissociate from reality – a natural response in some people when they are faced with unbearable pain. The subject’s ability to dissociate is a major requirement and it is, apparently, most readily found in children that come from families with multiple generations of abuse. Mental dissociation enables the handlers to create walled-off personas in the subject’s psyche, which can then be programmed and triggered at will.”
From https://vigilantcitizen.com/hidden-k...mind-control/:
“However, the scope of MK-ULTRA does not however stop. Experiments involving violent electroshocks, physical and mental torture and abuse were used in a systematic matter on many subjects, including children.”


From https://www.countercurrents.org/lendman160210.htm:
“The CIA and US military copied the Nazi methodology through numerous programs, including MK-ULTRA, MK being an abbreviation for words "mind control" in German. According to obtained documents, it works best when severe trauma (such as rape) occurs by age three, the result often causing the personality to split or dissociate (called dissociative identity disorder or DID) to repress painful memories.”


From https://www.newsweek.com/project-mku...vault-1073061:
“Project MKUltra was an illegal program of human experimentation undertaken by the CIA to discover methods, both pharmacological and psychological, for controlling the human mind, particularly in interrogation settings. Amphetamines, MDMA, scopolamine, cannabis, salvia, sodium pentothal, psilocybin and LSD were administered to thousands of unsuspecting people, throughout the United States and Canada. Others were subject to sensory deprivation, psychological abuse and rape, including the sexual abuse of children.”

From https://ritualabuse.us/mindcontrol/m...-on-children/:
“By the time Cheryl Hersha came to the facility, knowledge of multiple personality was so complete that doctors understood how the mind separated into distinct ego states, each unaware of the other. First, the person traumatized had to be both extremely intelligent and under the age of seven, two conditions not yet understood though remaining consistent as factors. The trauma was almost always of a sexual nature…”

“Between the years of 1957 and 1984, I became a pawn in a government scheme, whose ultimate goal was mind control and ultimately to create the “perfect spy”. All through the use of chemicals, radiation, drugs, hypnosis, electric shock, isolation in large tubs of hot or cold water, sleep deprivation, brainwashing; and verbal, physical and emotional abuse. By the time I was 9, I was also being sexually abused and humiliated as a coercive technique.”

“By the next year when I turned 9; I was sent to a place in Maryland called Deep Creek Caverns to learn how “to sexually please men”. I was taught* also how to coerce them into talking about themselves and then I had to prove my accurate recall. Richard Helms, Dr Gottlieb, George White and Morse Allen all* planned on entrapping as many officials, agency targets, heads of academic institutions and foundations. Later if the funding started to dwindle or the head of the agency – John McCone decided he could no longer tolerate children being tortured, abused and shot full of biologicals and radiation; then he would be forced to continue the projects at all cost. I was to become a regular little “spy” for them after that summer, entrapping many unwitting men, with the use of hidden cameras. I was only 9 when this began.”




From https://www.rebelcircus.com/blog/the...ch-were-real/:

“Recent documents released by the CIA have confirmed that Project MKUltra was a secret program designed to control children through behavioral engineering. Children were exposed to sexual abuse, forced to take LSD, and participated in violent tasks.”

“Project Monarch. Different tactics were used to brainwash children. Many were subjected to physical and sexual abuse. Most, if not all, were unknowingly given mind-altering drugs.”

“Project MKUltra: The CIA Used Mind Control to Turn Children into "Sex Kittens". MKUltra was a secret program led by the CIA during the Cold War. Also known as Project Monarch, it involved experiments enacted on unknowing participants, many of whom were children. Children were subjected to mind altering drugs so that their behavior could be controlled. Many were taught how to be seductive, referred to by researchers as sex kittens.”
“Behavioral conditioning. Children were taught how to be seductive. The purpose of some experiments was to turn the youths into sex kittens. Apparently, expecting children to engage in sexual contact with adults in order to extract information was acceptable to some researchers.”




From https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...41403136.html:

“MKUltra used numerous methods to manipulate people's mental states & alter brain functions including the surreptitious administration of drugs & other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal & sexual abuse including the sexual abuse of children.”

MK Ultra scientists used LSD & other mind altering drugs, electroshock therapy, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, physical torture with intense pain, sexual shaming, sexual mutilation, and rape to destroy the original personality of the subject.
This would create a compartmentalized set of identities in the same person that could perform tasks and then be unaware of what they had done. People who were broken in this way were turned into sex slaves for the ruling elite, into couriers for illegal drugs, and into assassins”



Unfortunately I have only ONE refutation to all this mess:
What I’ve gleaned from my research is that sexual abuse was typically used as a tool to “break” the psyche of someone, to make them dissociate, to take away their personality, which would enable them to be utilized essentially as “zombies” or “robots”. Eleven, being born and raised at the lab, was essentially a blank slate with no psyche or personality. Their goal with her was to strengthen her brain so she could perform psychic manipulations, as opposed to weaken her brain (break down her psyche so her mind could be controlled), the latter being accomplished by physical/mental/sexual abuse. The punishments we see her endure are negative reinforcement for not performing a task, as opposed to an attempt to destroy her brain.
THAT SAID, why would there be allusions to Monarch conditioning (the blonde wig, the butterflies Steve points at in the locker) if her abuse didn’t go that far? Why would she have a willingness to disrobe in front of a bunch of strange boys? Why does she lean in for that almost-kiss in the bathroom with Mike as if she knows what kisses are? Granted, she’s not afraid of Benny, or Hopper, but not all kids respond to sexual abuse in the same way.
So I’m HOPING HOPING HOPING that, compared to other child victims of MKUltra, she got off relatively easily by virtue of basically being raised in the lab, raised by Papa, and starting off as a blank slate that they didn’t need to break in order to tap into her brain. I really, really wish I could tell myself that I’m just reading too much into it, but more often than not my hopes get dashed…

This is all just getting really depressing for me...

stlavin95

Thanks for all of that

Same here

My Kind Of Crazy

stlavin95

Cute photo

My Kind Of Crazy

stlavin95

Thanks

JoJoF92

nice