Sports - Formula One #31: Possibly The Strangest Season Ever... We Love It - Page 2

parasite33 · 04-14-2009, 03:26 PM

Deducting points would be the worst what could happen, if the diffusers are deemed illegal, they should be illegal from now on and the results of the last two GPs should stay untouched.

If it's true that FIA told Renault a year ago that such diffusers are illegal and now they claim they're fine, that's rather shocking and unfair.

Icey_ · 04-15-2009, 02:46 AM

TFTNT :flwoers:

I am waiting for FIA's decission

Brucas4life · 04-15-2009, 03:05 AM

They are legal.

Quote:

F1 appeal rules in Brawn's favour

Motorsport's governing body, the FIA, has ruled the Brawn GP car, which has taken Briton Jenson Button to two wins this season, is legal. A panel heard eight hours of strongly worded evidence on Tuesday after complaints that Brawn, Toyota and Williams, use an illegal diffuser. And the five International Court of Appeal judges said the designs "comply with the applicable regulations".

All three teams are free to race in the Chinese Grand Prix in Shanghai. "The decision comes as no great surprise," said BBC Radio 5 Live Formula One commentator David Croft. "Already this season two sets of stewards, an FIA president and an FIA race director have thought that the diffuser design of Brawn, Williams and Toyota was OK. It's a sensible decision for Formula One. The FIA's court of appeal were highly unlikely, on technical grounds, to go against the decision of the stewards. Seven teams are now playing catch up and have to do something about it very, very quickly."

Brawn GP currently lead the constructors' world championship with 25 points, with Toyota in second place on 16 points. A Toyota statement issued immediately after the ruling said: "Our team studied the wording of the new 2009 regulations in precise detail to ensure we interpreted them correctly. We also made full use of the consultation procedure with the FIA which was a helpful process to ensure our interpretation of the technical regulations was correct. Therefore we had every confidence that the design of our car would be confirmed as legal, firstly by race stewards in Australia and Malaysia and subsequently by the Court of Appeal."
The judges in Paris heard evidence from both sides, with Ferrari's legal representative, Nigel Tozzi QC, describing Brawn GP team boss Ross Brawn as "a person of supreme arrogance".
Brawn defended himself robustly and insisted his team's diffuser was simply "an innovative approach of an existing idea".
And Brawn's criticism of Ferrari consultant Rory Bryne and Red Bull technical guru Adrian Newey saw sparks fly in the courtroom, with the Englishman refusing to retract his statements.

FIA technical director Charlie Whiting was also grilled, with accusations his organisation are "getting it wrong, and not understanding the point".

But setting about such a radical redesign with the season under way will not be easy.
Many of the teams running with regular diffusers argue the cost of making the changes is too great, especially during a climate of cost-cutting within the sport in the face of the global economic crisis.
"I've heard several of them complaining about the cost," said Brawn before the verdict. "But there are lots of things teams copy from each other and the cost doesn't get debated. I think some teams will be able to do it very quickly, but for other teams it will be more difficult because of their suspension configuration or other elements of the car."

Source

Brucas4life · 04-15-2009, 03:10 AM

Sorry for the double post FF went weird on me again.

goodnightboy · 04-15-2009, 03:38 AM

Not surprised. I know it shouldn't matter but I'm sure the FIA thought about how an "illegal" decision would have on the standings - would points be docked, people and teams thrown out of races, the entire championship? - and then decided it wasn't worth it. Besides I think that if they had really disapproved the FIA would have made some kind of noise indicating so. Well I guess the other teams just have to play catch-up then.

perrygraham · 04-15-2009, 05:36 AM

I'm glad they decided that way. I think it's the right decision.

Quote:

The judges in Paris heard evidence from both sides, with Ferrari's legal representative, Nigel Tozzi QC, describing Brawn GP team boss Ross Brawn as "a person of supreme arrogance".
Brawn defended himself robustly and insisted his team's diffuser was simply "an innovative approach of an existing idea".
And Brawn's criticism of Ferrari consultant Rory Bryne and Red Bull technical guru Adrian Newey saw sparks fly in the courtroom, with the Englishman refusing to retract his statements.

Wow, a lot of love between Brawn and Ferrari.

Brucas4life · 04-15-2009, 06:39 AM

Personally I don't. I think they felt they couldn't now deem it illegal after previously saying it was legal before the start of season and that they would look stupid. I also think they were worried what would happen if they had ruled it illegal as the other teams would most likely want Brawn, WIlliams and Toyota stripped of their points. Which tbh I don't think should have happened as it wasn't the teams fault at all, it was FIA that have screwed up. And I don't think it's fair that they told Renault it was illegal only last year and yet now all of a sudden it's ok. I think it would have made a lot more sense and been a lot easier to just get Brawn/Toyota/Williams to remove it as at least two of them were prepared to do so at the very first race in case it was deemed illegal.

I think it's just ridiculous though, we are now two races in to the season, they have only just decided if the cars are all legal or not, they are changing results several times after a race, and we've still got the McLaren hearing to come at the end of the month.

parasite33 · 04-15-2009, 07:41 AM

I'm honestly disappointed. How come a diffuser Renault asked FIA a year ago about, was illegal and suddenly a similar diffuser (similar to Toyota's one) is legal?

I think FIA screwed up, the rules should be clear, there should not be a loophole allowing different interpretations, because in such situation somebody is always going to feel bamboozled.

Brucas4life · 04-15-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parasite33 (View Post)

I'm honestly disappointed. How come a diffuser Renault asked FIA a year ago about, was illegal and suddenly a similar diffuser (similar to Toyota's one) is legal?

I think FIA screwed up, the rules should be clear, there should not be a loophole allowing different interpretations, because in such situation somebody is always going to feel bamboozled.

Totally agree.

perrygraham · 04-15-2009, 10:29 AM

But how can 3 teams come up with a solution when they all interpreted the rules separately. The FIA said it's legal before the season started so the decision now is only coherent. I don't have the Renault decision in my mind though, maybe the rules changed?

It's not the first and it won't be the last time that the FIA screwed up.

Brucas4life · 04-15-2009, 10:37 AM

Exactly. It's just one big screw up.

If the rule have changed then all teams should have been made aware of that. They are not mind readers, and if they've been told in the past it's illegal then they are not going to go and use it.

Obviously the other 3 teams were more willing to take a gamble in whether it was legal or not And it paid of.

parasite33 · 04-15-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele309 (View Post)

I don't have the Renault decision in my mind though, maybe the rules changed?

Or maybe Charlie Whiting&FIA just changed their minds.

Which wouldn't be that surprising, it's extremely unprofessional but they have done such things in other cases.

perrygraham · 04-15-2009, 12:57 PM

Well despite all those decisions I'm glad we've teams in the lead now that aren't Ferrari, McLaren or Renault. I enjoy a little variety and this season seems to be an exciting one.

goodnightboy · 04-15-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parasite33 (View Post)

I'm honestly disappointed. How come a diffuser Renault asked FIA a year ago about, was illegal and suddenly a similar diffuser (similar to Toyota's one) is legal?

What? I did not know about this. It doesn't surprise me though. The FIA are ridiculously inept. Vicky, I agree completely - it's just been one screw-up after another. I'd say this season has been a season of screw-ups. The whole number of wins thing being scrapped a week before the season started, possibly illegal cars being allowed to race and the decision about its legality only coming two races into the season, Liargate, the stewards always interfering etc. I do enjoy the different leaders though Ele, most definitely - much more interesting!

parasite33 · 04-18-2009, 01:01 AM

Chinese GP grid

1. VETTEL Red Bull
2. ALONSO Renault
3. WEBBER Red Bull
4. BARRICHELLO Brawn
5. BUTTON Brawn
6. TRULLI Toyota
7. ROSBERG Williams
8. RAIKKONEN Ferrari
9. HAMILTON McLaren
10. BUEMI Toro Rosso
11. HEIDFELD BMW
12. KOVALAINEN McLaren
13. MASSA Ferrari
14. NAKAJIMA Williams
15. BOURDAIS Toro Rosso
16. PIQUET Renault
17. KUBICA BMW
18. SUTIL Force India
19. GLOCK Toyota*
20. FISICHELLA Force India
* five-place penalty for gearbox change

I'm so happy for Fernando.

Although I suspect, he may have the lightest car from the Top 10... But it doesn't change the fact, that I'm extremely happy.

It's nice to see the Top 3 occupied by Renault-powered cars.

Buemi did a great job, I was totally surprised to see him in Q3. I mean, his more experienced team mate didn't get out of Q1 and he managed to get into Top 10 in his 3rd race in F1.


Fan Forum > General Discussion > Sports > Formula One #31: Possibly The Strangest Season Ever... We Love It