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Old 07-24-2019, 01:33 PM
  #16
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Haven’t rewatched yet, and when I do, it’ll probably only be certain parts. Or maybe the whole thing to observe Bob’s directorial choices again. (So proud of him, especially since he was in this episode a lot, too. He did a great job, and I’m excited for him to have the opportunity for him to direct more, and for Eliza to direct next season, too!)

It’s weird, because overall, I feel like this was a better episode than last week’s, but it lacked that signature scene that 6x10 had at the end, so I still liked it less. It was by no means a bad episode. I feel like it was good. But without a signature scene, it’s not as good as it could have been.


Clarke: No surprise here, but the main story was my favorite, as it has been all season long. I actually don’t have much to say about Clarke, though, because I feel like it was a pretty straightforward episode for her. She’s back, and she’s determined to save everyone else now that she’s been saved. She’s got her second chance, and instead of being scared of death, she once again is willing to put her life on the line and put her own safety at risk to help everyone else. I’m so nervous about her pretending to be Josephine again, but I really liked the way Eliza played it. Can’t be easy. The scene at the end where she found Madi there really made me feel for her.


Bellamy: I have more to say about Bellamy. First off, I want to get my minor gripe out of the way. Charmaine has written some good episodes for the show. I absolutely love 4x06 and 5x04, and 5x10 was intense, although it did have some problematic scenes. 6x04 . . . meh. Still my least favorite episode of the season. But she can write. However, one of the things that irks me is that she seems to have this go-to move of making characters snap at each other to generate conflict. She’s done it twice with Bellamy this season, first in having him snap at Echo in 6x04 (which I still feel was kind of OOC and happened with no build-up), and now he snapped at Octavia here. Now this does feel more justified, because the guy’s had a lot on his plate, he doesn’t know what changes his sister has been going through, and she treated him awfully last season. But it’s just . . . yeah, it’s kind of the writer’s go-to move. (She also did this with Octavia in 4x06 by having her say, “Why do you think you’re still alive?” to Bellamy, which felt incredibly harsh to me at the time and still does to this day.) And I still question why the show keeps bringing up the cannibalism when that was so totally not the worst thing Octavia did.

I also kind of question Bellamy having absolutely no reservations about killing even innocent people after all the trauma Mount Weather and the Grounder massacre caused him. But I guess it’s just him in the moment feeling that drive to save his people like he just saved Clarke (and kind of going along with Eclipse!Bellamy who was willing to kill others to save his people), but he got talked down from that and did ultimately accept that there was possibly a better way. But is it bad of me to say that I kind of wish we were going with his plan? Because I just feel like the other one is way riskier and is bound to fall apart. Yeah, that does sound bad, because we’re talking about innocent people dying. Now that I think about it, I’m actually kind of in his head-space myself with this. It’s very tempting to go with his plan, especially because, like him, I’m really worried about Clarke and don’t want her to put herself in danger again. But at the same time, I do know that there's a more moral way.


Bellarke: Obviously it’s not as big as it was last week, but I still like what we got. I know we’re in the midst of talking about it on the Bellarke thread (on the other board) right now, but there were lots of . . . touches. Beyond that, though, I just loved Clarke reminding Bellamy that he saved her as he was sitting there beating himself up for not protecting her. I guess the guilt over not protecting her and leaving his people to fend for themselves perhaps amplified his idea to resort to drastic measures to rescue them from Sanctum.

Oh, goodness, please don’t have them be separated for the entire next episode. My heart can’t handle that.


Octavia: I remain impressed by what they’re doing with her this season. And pleasantly surprised. I actually feel like I am going to reinstate her onto my top 10 list. I’m still struggling to forgive her for her season 5 actions (much like her brother is), but I do want her to be better, and I can see that she is trying hard to be better. I can see this better than Bellamy—we call can—because we’ve observed more about her journey than he has.

I’m going to say more in the next section about her, but I have to mention that, I was thinking about it a lot, and I realized that I might not have been quite fair to Octavia back in season 3. I’ve been defending (and will continue to defend) Bellamy’s right to forgive Octavia slowly or even not forgive her if he doesn’t want to. He is not required to do that. But I think that, back in season 3, I really wanted Octavia to understand that Bellamy wasn’t responsible for Lincoln’s death. Which he wasn’t. But he did play a part in that. I don’t recall everything I said about that, and I don’t know if I ever phrased it as “Octavia needs to forgive Bellamy,” but if I did, I should have said, “I hope Octavia can forgive Bellamy, but she doesn’t have to.” Because I feel that same way about Bellamy right now. For his own sake more than anything, I hope he can forgive her, but I fully understand if he doesn’t.


Blakes Siblings: This was probably my favorite scene of the episode. I thought it was really well-done. Marie and Bob play so well off of each other. Marie was able to show some vulnerability in Octavia, and come on, whenever Bob gets to cry . . . he’s such a good cryer.

There’s nothing wrong with taking care of yourself and putting yourself first, and Bellamy never did that growing up. He always put Octavia first, from six years old onward. And while there are some good, selfless things that resulted from that, there are also unhealthy things that resulted from it. And when Bellamy told her she wasn’t his responsibility anymore, it was almost as if he was saying, “I am not going to be the anchor to your redemption. That’s on you.” Which is how it should be. Her redemption will be more meaningful (and hopefully long-lasting) if she doesn’t try to achieve it solely through him, if it’s something that’s just hers. I mean, Bellamy had to find redemption, too, at one point, and he didn’t find that redemption through Octavia, or even through Clarke. He found it through himself and his own actions, and I want that for Octavia. It will benefit him, too, because Bellamy will be able to take better care of himself by not feeling the constant pressure of having to be responsible for what she does. I see it as nothing but a positive for both of them. I don’t ever want this relationship going back to the way it was. The way it was wasn’t working. They need something new, and that seems possible for the first time in a long time.


Gabriel: I like him. I’m not sure what his role in the show could be beyond this season, but I feel like they can find a way to keep him around, and it could be interesting. It was also interesting that they introduced a sibling relationship for him, in a weird way, through Xavier’s sister. Interesting parallels to Bellamy/Octavia there. (How many times can I say "interesting" in one section? Good God.)


Madi/Dark Commander Stuff: Oh, boy. Aesthetically, the chess scene at the beginning was very cool. (Well-done, Bob.) Sound-editing, though . . . I just CANNOT understand the Dark Commander! And he didn’t really say anything all that new or interesting, so . . . did that scene have to remain in there? It was kind of just more of the same thing. Lola’s doing a great job with the storyline, but it’s a storyline that I am just not a fan of. I knew this was going to happen when they put the flame in Madi (or rather when they left it in her). I knew season 6 would give us a Madi who wasn’t truly Madi, and that’s a shame, because I miss the kid.

Oh, and random, but come on, Jackson, you should have known better. I get that you’re a nice guy and don’t want to hurt the kid, but you know what’s going on with her.


Echo: Okay. Let me start off by saying, hey, 11 episodes in, we’ve found a storyline for Echo. What that storyline is, I’m not sure, but they didn’t make her into a nightblood for no reason whatsoever. Oh, goodness, if she ends up with the flame being the commander, though, then lord help us all. Taking a . . . I don’t want to say unpopular character, but . . . polarizing character at best? Yes, taking a polarizing character at best and putting her into a polarizing storyline doesn’t seem wise. There are definitely a lot of people who hate anything to do with the flame because of how many plotholes are involved with it and how archaic of a system of government it was in the first place, and I don’t think Echo can handle that storyline, tbh.

In regards to her backstory . . . I thought the flashback was well-filmed, and it was cool to see Nia again. But it didn’t really add much new information? Other than the fact that she used to have a different name. Like, we knew that she was forced to become a killer at an early age. We knew that she had to become someone else to survive there. It’s not new info. I get that they were drawing a parallel to her mind being wiped again, but that flashback felt so random, especially considering the fact that we’re in the home stretch of the season. And because it felt random (and unnecessary, IMO), I think that leaves a lot of viewers saying, “Okay, why did they just show me this random flashback?” And I’m sure I’m not alone when I say I feel like it was meant to try to pull more audience members onto her side. It will work for some viewers, and that’s fine. But it still feels pretty transparent to me, and I think that flashback probably would have been better off in 6x04, or maybe even back in season 5, because 6x11 is just a little too late for me.


Ryker: So he’s dead? Disappointing end to an inconsistent character, although he and Tasya kind of had a bit of a chemistry that would have been interesting to perhaps explore. But . . . sigh, nope. (Why in the hell did she not rat him out, by the way?)


Miller: I did not see Miller coming in this episode, but I really enjoyed it! Miller used to be in my top 10, mainly because I thought he was a pretty cool, nice guy. And then season 5 happened, and he took a tumble. But he got a little bit of a story last night, and I liked it. He’s clearly been struggling with his role in the whole Wonkru cult, and it’s nice to see him seeking his redemption from that. Plus, it was a cool callback to him being a thief on the Ark!


Gaia: I guess she’s marginally better this season, but I still don’t see much point to her character other than obsessing about nightbloods and the flame. However, I did like that she and Miller teamed up to save Echo.


Murphy: Oh, Murphy. I’m so conflicted. On the one hand, it’s been a very interesting storyline for him this season, probably the most substantial one he’s had since season 3? So I like getting to see him play a big role in what’s happening. But I’m still so disappointed! Although, to be fair, I applauded Bellamy for doing whatever he had to do to save the woman he loves, so I can’t really condemn Murphy for doing the same for Emori. But the fact that this still all started because of a relatively selfish desire to live forever still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I love this character, don’t get me wrong, and I think it’s really interesting to think about how he’s going to have to try to reintegrate with people who no longer trust him moving forward, but I just want him to . . . I want him to redeem himself for all of this, too. Clarke, the person he was so quick to criticize this season, is redeeming herself for what she did at the end of season 5. Big-time. And now Murphy might be more empathetic. I really worry about Emori, still, that this might all blow up in his face but that she’ll be the one to take the fall for it.


Stray Thoughts: No Raven or Abby in this episode. I’m totally okay with that. Now that Echo seems to have a start of a storyline, I guess Raven is the character with the least amount of a storyline this season. (Tied with Emori, I guess, but at least Emori got 6x08.)

Russell has turned into a good villain. It’s been cool to watch his descent into darkness and rage.

Diyoza is not dead. Can’t be.

Someone should really remind Bellamy that he has a girlfriend. Or not. Whatever.

I want Bellamy and Clarke to go into the anomaly. I want to see it through their eyes.

My mom is a total Clarke and Bellamy stan, both as individual characters and together. I was half asleep when I talked to her this morning, but I distinctly recall saying, “I’m so proud of you,” numerous times.


Episode MVP: I’m gonna go with Clarke. Because she literally just died and now is back on her feet working to save everyone, putting her own life on the line again.

6x01: Bellamy
6x02: Murphy
6x03: Clarke
6x04: Diyoza
6x05: Jordan
6x06: Bellamy
6x07: Clarke
6x08: Emori
6x09: Kane
6x10: Bellamy
6x11: Clarke
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:04 PM
  #17
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oh super episode! I'm so excited, they can't stop there!
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:28 PM
  #18
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Interesting thoughts, as always April. Agree with a lot, disagree with some I will respond properly to it all tomorrow or Friday as I’m exhausted working 11 hour days

I will say one thing, Echo was the episode MVP for me and it’s ok if you guys don’t love her because I love her enough for all of us.
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:33 PM
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She's not my MVP but I don't hate her. I'm annoyed for her. Give Echo someone who loves her. What about Gaia, Gaia seems to care about Echo???
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:41 PM
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Echo and Raven if we’re taking requests
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:50 PM
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Also acceptable. Basically anyone but Bellamy because he seems to only care about one person atm and it ain't anyone from spacekru.
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Old 07-24-2019, 03:05 PM
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I’m all for Bellamy prioritising Clarke but his lack of concern for his friends and gf was so weird to me, he did what he had to do to save his Clarke, like he always does. But surely Spacekru should be important to him too. Very weird writing, you can be concerned for more than one person at a time

Also people on twitter hating on Echo for killing her friend and “stealing her identity” saying she made up the death of her parents??? **** off. Echo had to bear the name of her childhood friend that she was FORCED to kill and have it serve as a daily reminder of the day she lost her innocence and became “Echo”.
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Old 07-24-2019, 03:26 PM
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^ Yeah, that’s pretty stupid. Maybe those people should just say, “I don’t care about her backstory” and leave it at that. I mean, that’s fine. Obviously we all care about certain characters more than others.

Oh, I’ll give Echo an episode MVP if I feel she deserves it. (i.e. 5x06, when she at least did something) But I just don’t feel she really did much this episode besides kill Ryker. So it really doesn’t have anything to do with liking a character for me. Hell, I’d give Gaia an MVP if I felt she did enough to earn it. But, come on, it’s Gaia. That’s not gonna happen.

Bellamy and Echo is such an afterthought of a relationship at this point that it just feels . . . unnecessary? I mean, it was never necessary, but it especially isn’t now.

I think Spacekru are important to Bellamy (this episode proves that he was willing to do anything for them, too), it was just that . . . well, Clarke was more important. It’s like Josephine said, “I guess you just care about her more.” She was the priority. Fine by me, as there are only two other Spacekru members I even like right now.
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Old 07-24-2019, 04:50 PM
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I would like Bellarke to run off with Miller and Emori to find some unexplored part of this moon together. Gabriel can come, too. They should bring Russell's dog, too.
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Old 07-24-2019, 05:28 PM
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Oh, the dog! Yes, Clarke’s plan is the plan to go with. We can’t kill the innocent dog!
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Old 07-25-2019, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Oh, I’ll give Echo an episode MVP if I feel she deserves it. (i.e. 5x06, when she at least did something) But I just don’t feel she really did much this episode besides kill Ryker. So it really doesn’t have anything to do with liking a character for me. Hell, I’d give Gaia an MVP if I felt she did enough to earn it. But, come on, it’s Gaia. That’s not gonna happen.
I know you’re fair with your MVP choices cause I remember you giving Echo one in 5x06, and yeah I think that’s fair, I wanted more action from Echo in 6x11, she mostly sat there

@ the Gaia comment.

I love Becho, but I’ve been disappointed with the writing all season. I don’t care who Bellamy ends up with outta the two tbh, but I expect good writing and that’s only happening with one of his ships.
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Old 07-25-2019, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
I expect good writing and that’s only happening with one of his ships.
At this point I honestly do feel sad for Becho shippers. Last season was good for you guys, and they made you all care and now they all forget that Bellamy is supposed to care as well.
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Old 07-25-2019, 03:06 AM
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Yeah it does suck, but I don’t watch this show for ship reasons so I’m not too put out by it, plus rubbish Becho means good Bellarke so win/win either way. My main concern right now is the characters, I just want good things for Bellamy, Clarke and Echo as individuals, that’s all I care about.
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Old 07-25-2019, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by polaris (View Post)
At this point I honestly do feel sad for Becho shippers. Last season was good for you guys, and they made you all care and now they all forget that Bellamy is supposed to care as well.
yeah, he's like totally forgetting about her
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Old 07-25-2019, 04:54 PM
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This:

Quote:
So What Was the Point of Echo’s Backstory? OH I’M GLAD YOU ALL ASKED.
“I didn’t tell you that just so you don’t kill me. I told you to spare you from what happens if you do.”

So, um, I kind of loved this part of the episode honestly? 10/10 and I haven’t felt that about much of this season.

And what I’m trying to nail down that’s gonna stick with me about it is this – Echo told the story to Ryker, mostly to stall and elicit sympathy, but also to impart a lesson onto him that was the exact opposite of what she actually took from it, in her life.

She is basically telling him: I understand being in a kill-or-be-killed situation. My side was chosen for me as a kid too. If you do this, it will change you. (“Haunt” him is how he takes it, but she doesn’t exactly say that. It might make him the kind of person who’s not haunted by it at all.)

And that’s really true, in a deeper way than the cruelty he’s passively allowed all these years. This is an active and cold-blooded choice, however he justifies it for himself or Sanctum as a whole. Even going this far kiiiind of makes Ryker irredeemable, but it’s not too late for him to not be a total bastard. And the switcheroo with the two Azgeda girls is not just a neat reveal, it works so WELL for this theme and ties into the body-snatching stuff as well. Echo directly compares what happened to her to being wiped already, having the person she was before erased, a shell to keep something else alive in. She literally became someone else after her first kill on the most basic level. She lost her name. Her identity was tied, forever, to the person whose life she took.

So yeah, OMG WHY DID ECHO TELL THIS ~STRANGER ALL THIS when he was weighing her life against his own, ummm that’s why she did that.

But then there’s the second lesson, Nia’s lesson, that is bubbling under the surface of this story, and Ryker doesn’t really hear that one until blood is coming out of his mouth. Hesitation is death, a.k.a. He should’ve killed her when he had the chance.

The same way Echo 1.0 should’ve killed the running-away man, or at least she should’ve killed Ash, and she would still be alive if she had. Ryker hesitated, when she was panicked and struggling; he faltered and wanted someone else to do it. (Which is still not taking a stand in any useful way or helping her, like she’s already tried to convince him to do. Just a very human reluctance to, y’know, murder.) And that moment straddling the line between mercy and cowardice is why he is weak and why he was doomed. And Echo putting the knife right through him with hollow eyes is why she’s different, and alive. *That* is the moral she still takes from her past, even while she’s urging him to do the opposite.
Both the lessons are true.
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