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Old 11-13-2015, 01:54 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBuiltThePyramids (View Post)
I think that so far, Megan has basically let Walter make the decisions, since they've never been in this "we're out of time so what do we do now?" situation before (she was well enough to escape the hospital and get herself arrested just one year ago) and as he's been doing research and has the genius level of intelligence, I think Megan, while informed herself, has always trusted Walter's judgement, which we saw challenged briefly in Dominoes, but then she went along with what he thought then, too. So Megan still had the right to make her own decision, but I think up until now, that always agreed with Walter's opinion. And now the conflict is them differing.
I completely agree with your analysis of the situation. I just feel like since Megan seems pretty certain about what she wants at this stage, she needs to have the conversation with Walter, both to insure that her wishes are respected as well as to help prepare her brother for her death. It doesn't seem fair to Sly that he's forced to be the middleman.


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Originally Posted by WeBuiltThePyramids (View Post)
Toby overanalyzes everything, and he's quite blunt (i.e. some of the imagery he was giving us regarding Ralph's conception last year), and he's also used to having an answer, both himself (as he's always speaking matter of factly) and as part of the Scorpion team. This time, they don't have an answer, there isn't some crazy stunt they can pull to save her, so that helplessness they aren't used to feeling plus picking up on the genuine personal grief and tension from Walter and Sly (and Paige to a degree) makes their reactions seem fairly plausible to me. It's like how he was giving Paige the answers to her questions so matter of factly, but when she asked something he didn't know, he didn't know how to react to that, it's the same to me as him feeling off about the Megan thing because he doesn't have an answer to that either when answer = solution to the problem.
I guess my take on Toby is a little different. Yes, his default is typically to be blunt, but I feel like he's shown himself capable of turning it off when the situation calls for it. He's been sensitive in numerous conversations with Happy, when giving advice to Paige at the end of Charades, and in dealing with Walter in Kill Screen. As far as being uncomfortable when not having an answer, that seemed like a new characterization just for this episode to me, much like the flossing (we've never seen that before, even though they implied it was a regular habit) and the old cell phone (fairly sure we've seen him with a smart phone before). I don't think someone could devote their life to studying human behavior (hardly an exact science) if they were uncomfortable with uncertainty. Toby has never had a problem dealing with emotion, and faced with grieving friends, I think he would step up.

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Old 11-13-2015, 02:47 PM
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I can definitely see your reasoning for Toby. I guess I just don't see this as a one episode characterization, because this - a personal loss that is inevitable but still hasn't happened - is completely foreign to the show so far. And I think the show is trying to do that - show how differently people act when tragedy like this is directly happening to them or to someone close to them over than just a job. Kinda like how Happy reacted differently when Toby was endangered than random people she has encountered on a job.
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:23 PM
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I just meant that I don't see Toby, generally speaking, as a person uncomfortable with uncertainty the way someone like Walter is. But you're right, this is a unique situation, so it will be interesting to see how everyone reacts. I still personally think Toby would be just as well-equipped as Paige to handle an emotional situation.

I liked Paige's conversation with Walter. They have a close relationship and she's already been helping him develop his emotional side, so it felt natural for her to try to pull him out of the state of denial he's living in. Her conversation with Toby rubbed me the wrong way because he's not in denial about Megan. He's just reacting differently than Paige and I felt like she was insinuating that he was doing it "wrong" and that she knew better. Her conversation with Happy bothered me less because at least Happy initiated it (great character growth for Happy!), but it still felt like Paige was trying to tell her how to feel and react.
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Old 11-13-2015, 08:06 PM
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I think if anyone was giving a sort of tutorial about grieving, it should have been Cabe. I can't say what Paige did bothered me at all because I'd be lying, but of the two "normals" Cabe has suffered a canon close, personal loss, and while it's possible Paige's parents are gone (I'm actually kinda hoping they are because how awful would it be for Ralph to have living but absent grandparents as well as a living but absent father?) we haven't been told anything like that.

I definitely don't think, though, that Toby is that well equipped. Eddie said in the bonus features for season one that Toby isn't the coolest or most adjusted person, but he DOES know how to fake it really, really well, and honestly that's how I see this situation too. He's legitimately very good at putting on a front, but underneath that he doesn't know what the heck he's doing when he's involved. He can impartially give other people advice, but when it's personal, when he's part of the puzzle rather than an outsider looking at the big picture, it's hard for him to maneuver that.
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Old 11-13-2015, 09:30 PM
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Oh, I totally agree with that assessment of Toby. I guess where I'm having trouble is that, to me, it feels like Toby is sort of on the outside of this situation and therefore would be able to give advice and support to Walter and Sly. Yes, he knows Megan and is going to feel sad about her death, but at least from what they've shown us on screen, he's not close to her at all (we've only ever seen a couple very brief interactions). I feel like the greater part of his sadness would stem from seeing Walter and Sylvester's grief than from his own personal sense of loss. Helping someone else with an emotional situation is something that he is well-equipped for. If the loss were more personal to him, I agree, he'd be a total mess.
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Old 11-14-2015, 08:24 AM
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Well again, I think this is the show trying to show this is different than what they've done before. Toby, Happy, Sly, Walter, they all work in ways different from Cabe, Paige, Megan, Cooper, etc etc, but this is new territory for Toby, even though he and Megan aren't Best Friends Forever, and even though Megan isn't Toby's sister or girlfriend, she isn't some Random Joe's sister or girlfriend either. It's the same concept as not allowing police officers to work cases regarding a friend or loved one, because they are too close and even though they know their jobs, they just aren't going to be as effective or appropriate when it's personal.
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:28 AM
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I understand your point and I'm not saying he'd be so detached that he'd be capable of acting in a professional capacity as anyone's therapist in this situation. I just personally have a hard time seeing him as being so devastated that he'd be unable to lend support as a friend to Walter and Sly. I think he and Paige would essentially be in the same position in that they would be sad about Megan's death, but even more concerned with helping their friends.

Now, where I definitely could see a difference is how they do deal with their own feelings (whether about Megan's death itself or having to see Walter and Sly grieving) at the end of the day. Whereas Paige would respond in a healthy way (maybe talking to someone, like Cabe, perhaps?), Toby would probably just gamble or do something equally self-destructive. So while I'm sure his lower EQ will come into play at some point, I don't think it would make him emotionally incapable of being there for Waler and Sly.

Just my own personal take on the situation but, like you said, this is new territory for Scorpion, so it will be interesting to see where the writers go with it!

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Old 05-17-2016, 09:03 AM
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I was a bit frustrated with how the writers handled things this episode. It's typical TV-show stuff to get things to escalate.

Megan should (already have) tell Walter firmly and directly what she wants and how she wants it. I get that she has been trusting Walter and agreeing with his decisions regarding her health all this time, but now they want different things.
Sly should NOT be in the middle of this.
As soon as Walter told Sly to make 'good decisions', I immediately knew that Sly would make good decisions for Megan, I mean respecting her wishes, It was a bit predictable.

Last episode Cabe apologises to Walter for possibly/probably interrupting "a moment" between Walter and Paige. So when Cabe said this episode that he would handle Walter and Paige should talk to Toby and Happy, that seemed a bit strange to me. I know he has known Walter longer than Paige has, but I feel like he should have left it up to her in the first place, just as it turned out now in the end.

Overall, after last episode, this one fell a bit flat for me. Especially since I'm binge-watching. I was still full in the adrenalin mode. That went away quickly
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