FireQueen

I understand but even without spoilers you are not a part of the general audience. Most viewers don't know the comics nor have any idea of which characters are popular with the fandom/the showrunners. I don't need spoilers to know that Cisco and Caitlin will never die because I have come to understand how the show operates. That is not true for other viewers. They probably watched the whole thing wondering if the hero of the show would succeed in saving his love. Alas, Barry failed.

Your feelings are absolutely valid Sadly, the writers can't please everyone. They definitely didn't please me either with some of their choices. The show has always had a pacing problem and this season was no exception.

Please, help me out here. With "rewriting history" you mean another Flashpoint-like situation?

MyzButterfly

I watched them back to back too. Both were heart-breaking with high stakes!!!!!!

bonnie51

fair enough, though there are X amount of comic viewers as well. i would be interested in knowing what the % of people were who watched the show. call it a morbid curiosity.

yep. though again its not entirely about what i personally want as much as story. pacing, well developed, logical, character development, etc. for all the flaws the first two seasons may and may not have had... i felt like it was better? maybe not perfect, but better.

the villains were a little better fleshed out and known. while certainly star labs and science heavy... it didn't feel quite this bad. there were heavy episodes but also a balance of lighter episodes. cast size was somewhat more manageable and the entire city didn't know barry's identity.

certainly it wasn't perfect but it felt better, imo. this season even there have been moments and stretches of episodes where i really enjoy it... this season seems, idk... off track? i feel like it gets side tracked - be it tracy / hr, bringing julian in as a antagonist but then he's part of the team but then he's alcehmy but then he doesn't remember and then he and caitlain and omg... or the season's about trying to prevent iris from dying but we won't give iris any pov about that because well... we need time for hr and his jokes? ....and we're going to have killer frost turn completely...for an episode an episode and a half because then we're going to redeem because...#gotcha....

its like they have ideas or ideas of good ideas... and then they have ADHD and see a nut and go chase it and then forget what they were doing.

killer frost as a villain for season 4? interest concept, change the team dynamic, different. we'll tease it but nope, not doing it.

tease iris' potential death? ok, interesting, give her some extended pov time about said upcoming death and really let viewers connect and empathize with the character.... not so much.

okay, have future barry = savitar. ok, strange, but ok. give him a really interesting back story, like losing iris pushes him over the edge and he obsesses about not being fast enough so he gets faster and faster and faster but he loses a pieces of himself in the process, destroying everything and everyone he had left around him until eventually becoming savitar as he's become a more ruthless "hero" whose more vengeful and obsessed with speed etc... or something. not #teamflasharedicks

killer frost's arc probably makes the least sense of everything or its the running. they actually had done a decent job. there was the whole thing with zoom seeing the darkness in caitlain last season. then she had powers. then we see her kind of losing herself to her powers and her mom's warning about the more she uses them, the further she loses control or it spreads, etc. then there's the necklace and the bracelet, etc... but then she uses the powers and you get tiny flashes of killer frost lurking beneath the surface....until finally she breaks free....

and then as soon as that happens and the journey is complete and now's the chance for the pay off its like they're a bunch of lemmings running around screaming "redemption! redemption! redeem!" and its like WTF? you tease it for over a year that there's this darkness and these powers are someway inherently villainous and then as it soon as it happens - they throw it away? whether its a good story or character or not... that makes no sense. and then to make it even worse, if that's possible - you kinda bring tracy on as a potential replacement of sorts - but now are redeeming her anyways - oh dear lord, there not both going to be there? are they?


and iris whose supposed to be a reporter and we saw brief glimpses of that in season one and two.... but now its like she doesn't even have a job. the real reason the by line changed was because they never have her do anything as character that doesn't involve barry and or her family and her character development is more stalled than a car stuck in neutral. it might even be rolling backwards at this point sadly.

i know since its a show about barry some of this was always going to happen and is naturally occurring. but all of it? all of it seems a bit much. mine's very much a love-hate with the show in case anyone was wondering lol... they have a bunch of talented actors and actresses that work well together. they have a pretty good fan base. and they have good ideas or beginnings of good ideas or parts of good ideas... and its just frustrating where you can see how it might work but for any number of reasons.... its dropped or under developed or scrapped, etc.

its a good show. but it could be a really good show, and that's my frustration. if i was watching something that was trash and i knew it was trash but enjoyed regardless... then no big. but there's so much unused, under developed and or ignored potential here that it kind of drives me insane. its almost like the show is so obsessed with honoring its own history that they really don't move forward that much imo.

sorry for the rant. but needed to get it off my chest.

true though i think its worse this season imo or more noticeable

yes and no. its not really a "flash point" because he remembers and he knows the characters around him... but he wants to create a better existence for himself in the future and correct what he sees as mistakes that his younger version of himself made.

so its an UA but also kind of not because he's still barry, still the flash, he's basically doing what barry kind of tried to do this season and changing the future. now the difference being that he came back to prevent a death but then ended up killing the person he returned to save thus ensuring the time loop / the past.

so it is an UA of sorts but unlike flash point... but really it would be like eobard in season one too. so like if savitar was going to win and he threw barry into the speed force and he got trapped in the present - similar to eobard - and now wanted to change his future.

and to me that could have been a kind of cool season 4.

where you would have had iris, cisco, wally, joe, hr, etc... on one side and savitar / killer frost on the other having this antagonist relationship at the start of the season but also... savibarry would have memories of joe and iris especially and wally and killer frost's "caitlain" memories, etc...

and i think you could have had powerful emotional scenes you have characters interacting who at one time loved each other completely but not were tormented by memories and darker side of ourselves rather than the people they once knew... and then over the course of the season maybe there's another villain who comes in and shakes things up where they kind of start gravitating towards each other and working together etc... and you kind of see a different side of their relationships and its not all just star labs based, etc...

it'd be something of a reset but not really since they'd all have the same memories. so it'd be more they drifted apart and now its the process of putting the pieces back together and seeing if they can find their way back to each other. i think that at least could have been half a season, a 5-6 episode arc or more? where you you see these relationships really flesh themselves out and its not just pep talk central but there's some deep, emotionally raw confrontations where maybe issues that our characters have had with each other come to light and they have to deal with it.

imo, that has more story potential than what they are setting up in season 4 by redeeming killer frost so quickly, defeating an undeveloped villain and really not doing anything to kind of add or subtract from what the show already largely was heading into season 3.

crash landing

Learnt my lesson Flash finale on Wednesday

a fine mess

FireQueen

How did you guys like the finale?

a fine mess

I didn't expect the ending but thought how similar it was to Mon-El leaving 'Earth' on Supergirl! It won't take them long to get him out of the Speed Force next season but I'd like to see the team not doing as well without Barry. I feel like several episodes this season have been so-so, but the finale was one of the strongest episodes. Also like that Killer Frost doesn't join Team Flash but will stay 'good'.

crash landing

What a finale think the ending was justified though related to Flashpoint and all the time traveling - Speedforce was already not impressed

FireQueen

No main DCTV ship got their happy ending this season

I didn't like how they've written the Savitar arc to be honest. There were several things I would have done differently and the rules kept changing to prolong the drama I love that Iris got to shoot him though. Payback

Killer Frost was all over the place. She will eventually come back, join Team Flash and be forgiven for siding with the big bad for unknown reasons

I will miss goofy HR

a fine mess

I miss goofy HR as well.

I enjoyed Savitar as a villain though. Thought he was more interesting than Zoom. Wonder who will be the big bad next season!

I also hope Barry never loses his optimism.

crash landing

I do miss him but hoping this means the return of Harry whose my fave Wells

sourburst

maybe unstick this?