Summer Falls

Maan it gettinf good

baelfire24

IMO, one of the best episodes of season 3.

bonnie51

the episode was... ok. good moments, largely filler, and a couple plot developments. so an okay episode, not what to me an episode so close to the end of the season should be but the show has its format and is sticking to it.....

but that explanation almost single handedly ended my renewed enthusiasm for the show.


iris being the person keeping the darkness from over taking barry is well known and established and makes perfect, logical sense.


hte rest of what emo barry with scars said? makes me want to put my head inside he device cisco came up with and break how they fixed it. what they've done to the characters of savitar and future flash, combed as they are, and what this story line could have been...and what we end up getting is a emo time remnant who if he had been hugged a couple more times never becomes savitar, apparently. never mind that time remnants never had any of the abilities that this one has - or that this makes zero sense for why he black flash and time wraiths aren't after his ass - but it wasn't even that he didn't die for iris but that they didn't welcome him.

just have emo barry with scars betray killer frost or have caitlain come back and betray him. i don't even want to know what the other reason is. i'm afraid its gotta be dumber than this. at least this has the benefit of it being iris who keeps barry sane makes logical sense with the story line the show has created. that feels now like its something that was pulled out of its ass

MyzButterfly

This was one of the best episodes of this entire season IMO. I enjoyed every part of it and it was a nice break from the dark stuff.

Will post more on it tomorrow.

bonnie51

the lighter tone was nice, don't get me wrong. but my issues with that are the fact that we still have almost no and very little explanation regarding savitar, etc... if this was 4 or 5 episodes sooner, it would be fine. but so close to the finale, idk....i just don't think it fits. there was some plot movement, so it wasn't 100% filler but it just... idk. and 3x22 looks largely the same...................... it moves the plot a little bit with barry doing everything and anything to save iris but do we even see savitar next episode then?

i can't remember there being a villain whose had so little run time this late in the season..... i mean we found out about zoom in 2x18 and he had more run time i think regarding plot points and motivation than savitar. season one we found out about wells in 1x09, and everyone else started suspecting in what, 1x19?... so one episode sooner there but the reverse flash felt more a part of the story line imo than savitar does.

so idk... both the logic and lack of supporting logic from previous seasons to support what they came up with for this one irritated me as well as the fact that tbh... i don't really care that much about the villain? the reveal that it was barry was interesting but turning him into a time remnant who felt rejected and has had almost almost development as a character other than a suit of metal... made this episode fall flat - despite its lighter tone - this close to the finale for me.

MyzButterfly

I think I'm resigned to not delving too deeply into the "whys". I knew no matter what explanation they came up with, I wouldn't be satisfied with so I'm over it.

Pretty sure wse'll see Savitar in the last 2 episodes.

I'm just grateful that I was entertained from start to finish last night. It's been a while since that's been the case for me. There were definitely some holes and some things I wish were better, but it was much better.

bonnie51

understandable. and i agree the rationale was probably never going to be 100% logical and good...

but it could have been more, imo, and i guess that's why it bothered me. even it being "barry" there was potential there to have... decent? salvageable story line if done right? and last night instead...

i guess i was just disappointed with show because it seemed to settle for being good instead of potentially great, etc. that's one of my biggest pet peeves...

it has an awesome cast. maybe the best casting job i've seen on the cw? maybe not... my viewership goes back enough years that some old ones might beat it beat it but in recent memory. i like caitlain but i really think killer frost adds a different and fresh, so to speak, dynamic. so i hope she stays but not expecting that to happen.



i just feel like they settled... and now am concerned they settled for savitar's #2 he needed. for a show thats been about as ambitious as it probably be with things like grodd and king shark, etc... i felt like the rationale was about as unambitious as it possibly could have been. and that kind of bugs me a little. sure if you try to be great or do something unexpected, you can fail if you don't pull it off... but i would rather the show did that than play it safe and not challenge us as viewers in how we view things etc.

Summer Falls

I get your point bonnie they could do more to explain things but i feel thats always been the problem saying that i love the flash hunour so its cute

bonnie51

perhaps it has been but i feel like season one...and most of season 2... it seemed better.

this season at times, while there have been good moments and the acting's good etc... i just feel like the're rationale is "because i said so"

Summer Falls

Yer i understand that a lot.of my other shows do that to

a fine mess

bonnie51

well, that was rather a waste of time IMO since Iris is not going to be dead. Either thru the facial reconstructive thing that they made a point of using at Argus or some other means...

she'll turn up alive and well in the finale - perhaps towards the very end - but alive and well nonetheless.

They're not going to kill her off and then have you believe that the Flash - the titular hero of the show - eventually becomes Savitar at the end. So, that's a big nope.

Neither obviously will Cisco die or lose his hands.


Unless I'm a billion percent wrong they've created a rather unsuspenseful season finale.

1. Iris will be alive
2. HR potentially was the one to die, so people would still be said and ie funeral. [I][B]not to mention barry wouldn't know since he had already left so hence his reaction

3. Caitlain will emerge, they've hinted at it two times in a row now first with the eyes and now with Savitar asking her if she was having second thoughts -

I'm expecting a Ronnie return in the finale

4. barry probably goes into the speed force to take jays' place but will be back in 4x01 but a time jump is likely to make us think that more time passed

perhaps the last bit is wrong but i expect to go 3 for 3 - savitar defeated, KF locked back up or defeated for good and iris alive.




there were some good moments but i am having a hard time getting past how undeveloped savitar is and how little we have seen of him down the stretch - a time where you would think the villain would be front and center and he - and even the suit have almost been MIA the last two episodes



sorry for being a buzz kill for everyone who liked it but the last two episodes have felt extremely flat to me. not that there weren't good moments and good acting performances in them. but in terms of story telling and scope and pace, logic, etc.... for me personally.... not really that great.


not to mention, presuming i'm correct and iris is in fact alive... i'm not sure what this season accomplished? we already knew barry would do anything and risk anyone for the people he cares about most - see creating flash point to save his mom, etc... - i'm just having a hard time seeing how any of this moves the needle heading into season 4 since even with barry going into the speed force, that will be as short lived as flash point was.

and if it is ronnie that returns... i'm not sure that's a big needle mover either. unless i'm 100% wrong - which is possible after all and some would say likely - i just don't get what the take away from this season was.





i would almost bet my life that iris isn't dead. that one i am 10000000000000% sure of at this point in time

crash landing

Been double killed First The Flash destroyed me and than Prison Break re-killed me like I knew it would shouldn't have watched them back to back

FireQueen

The thing is, they are not writing this show just for us. They are mostly writing it for the general audience. For them, Iris is dead. The general audience isn't aware of spoiler pics or tweets and won't spend time speculating and theorizing over HR's face changing device. If/when Iris shows up alive in the finale, it can be a shock for them Even some Internet users are like "Wait, is Iris really dead? ".

Whether Iris is dead or alive, the titular hero won't become Savitar because Savitar is not Future Flash. At worst, people can expect Barry to mourn his lost love and then remember the promise he made to her and get the team back together.

Honestly, what would the show accomplish if Iris died? Give Barry another love interest and lightning rod?

Savitar should be defeated because no big bad should overstay their welcome. What I think the show did wrong is reveal his identity this late in the game. They could have spent less time on trying to change the headlines and more time on fleshing out the main villain. Maybe the problem was Grant's availability because it can be unfeasible to play two characters in multiple episodes.

bonnie51

oh, absolutely right but even without spoilers as you address below.... what does the show get from killing iris? even without spoilers when i was detached from the internet during the earlier part of the season, etc... i never once believed she was actually dying which in some way kind of ruined the villain. since that was the big thing that the villain was after and knowing it wasn't going to happen.... it was hard for me to take savitar too seriously and also because he was so poorly developed. those two things just kind of made me feel very meh about savitar...

i actually feel like dr. alchemy was cooler as the villain than savitar is / was. because there you had someone wh was kind of devil may care attitude who was bringing back flash point in some ways to haunt barry and whose end game was kind of murky and potentially was achieving it or having some success. savitar's ultimate goal was never going to get realized so that made it harder for me - along with the poor writing for the character - to really get engaged with the character.

though they panned him off as it... and that's what made the future flash comics so interesting and unique was the fact that at the end you had the villain win and had the chance to rewrite history - at least for a time.



nothing, really. even if they did accomplish bringing in another LI - which i doubt and will very soon become a moot point anyways - they accomplish nothing. unless they consider pissing off fans accomplishing something. but from a story perspective, nothing. whether or not i think they have to end up together is in-material to the fact the show gains nothing by killing her. there are some characters the show might gain by having them die off or make that sacrifice etc... but iris is not one of them. her death wouldn't accomplish any thing story line wise. the only way it would would be if they were going future flash and having savitar win which is not going to happen....

very true though at the same time even after the reveal, he could have been in the suite a decent amount of the time as he has been the last couple episodes.

they still could have picked and chosen where they had "savi barry" and where they had metal man. i think they also could have made him a more dynamic villain and given him more of a purpose. but they locked him into this path, gave him no real development and then revealed who it was far to late and where we are.........