bonnie51

TV Ratings Tuesday: ‘The Flash’ hits season high, ‘Limitless’ and ‘Grinder’ tick up | TV By The Numbers by zap2it.com


Show hit a season high and was 2nd in its hour! Almost 4 million viewers and a demo right now of 1.6!



Amazing. People wanted to see Earth two and after how good it was, I hope next week is close in the ratings as well!

Summer Falls

thats amazing im not surprised people wanting to see E2 its just fun seeing what could of been also seeing KF would of been another factor

FireQueen

Crazy numbers It was a great episode, definitely my favorite since the season started

Heidsdk

i really agree fave episode aswell, and WOAH!! great rating!!!!

FireQueen

I'm a bit disappointed that they killed Ronnie again but let's hope next week is even better

bonnie51

oh yeah, lots of factors. I think the two biggest ( in no order of my own but I do think these were the two biggest)



1 - for some would have been WA
1- for some others would have been Killer Frost


Both were at the fore front of most of the promos, etc.


but really this is what the show should be IMO. Even without a ton of one on ones you had a ton of emotion in the episode and it was done extremely well:


1- Barry finding out his mom was alive and hearing her voice, happy on the phone

2- Iris and Barry being happy and married
3- Emotion of Wells v Barry after the attack at the club "she is Iris to me" etc. and Well's depression that Jessie was now dead

4- Trying to make an emotional appeal to Killer Frost by Barry

5- Reverb trying to "Cloud City" Cisco by playing up on being able to over throw Zoom and expand his own powers, etc.

6- Iris wanting revenge for Joe's death


Etc, etc... so while it wasn't all hankies and tissues, there was more motion than "ooh, shiny" and "oohh, blah blah goes boom!"


this is the kind of episode I feel like happened more often last year and that they'd get back to.

It wasn't totally about thrill seeking, pushing a ship or character front and center, etc.

It was about characters and their emotional draw and connection to each other and their own lives for the most part IMO

FireQueen

Then there could have been viewers like me that were dying to see both Killer Frost (and Deathstorm) and WestAllen

I agree, those things got lots of promotion everywhere I think E-2 in general was a big draw, it's fair to assume that people were expecting multiple doppelgängers.

I think next episode will give us a clearer picture. Sometimes people can be attracted by what they see in promos but then are disappointed with the execution. If 2x14 scores great ratings too we can assume that E-2 in general has been a success.

I agree that every actor had the opportunity to shine

Personally I hope that if E-1 Caitlin becomes Killer Frost she can be "icy" in terms of personality too. Her E-2 version is certainly better than whatever they're (not) doing with E-1 Caitlin but she seemed too playful for an ice villain. Maybe some of it was due to Ronnie's presence and influence but I'll wait and see what they do with her now that Ronnie is dead.

I have no idea what kind of personality Killer Frost has in the comics but for me someone with such powers and name should be more logical, manipulative and cold-hearted while E-2 Killer Frost was playful and flirty.

What do you guys think about this? I could totally picture the Caitlin we saw in the pilot as Killer Frost but then they made her sweet, warm and somewhat awkward and now I can imagine that the only things "icy" about Killer Frost would be her powers.

bonnie51

Oh, yes. I was certainly one who was very interested in more than one character, etc...

honestly, I was quite interested in seeing E-2 Cisco because I wondered what his role was going to be.

True and of course now the question kind of is since we know they make it home, etc...

1) Who is and do they find out - the man / boy in the mask?
2) Does KF survive on E2? Just about every other dopple ganger besides Barry and Iris has died on one earth or another - I guess Jay as well. And somewhat randomly Linda / Dr. Light. Go figure on that one.


1- Firestorm / death storm / Dr. Stein - all dead. Well, Stein only on E2
2- Cisco - technically died on both but due to time travel, alive on E1
3- Joseph West died on Earth 2
4- Mama Allen murdered on Earth One
5- Wells - killed by Thawne of course on Earth One

so... since zoom obviously won't be defeated yet and Killer Frost obviously isn't coming over to Earth One ... I somehow doubt zoom is just going to let her live.

I know supposedly we're going to find out some kind of "history" between them and some kind of back story or something but still... he almost killed her for reminding the other two of what he wanted after he killed them so it would not appear whatever history they have, he's totally committed to her well being

Would also very much agree with this

It really depends on which Killer Frost they are using for her. Crystal Frost fell in love with Dr. Stein and when he didn't reciprocate, accidently caused her own transformation into Killer Frost, hated men from that point on pretty much and had numerous battles against Firestorm and died after taking too much energy from Firestorm - kind of like the metahuman in 1x7.


Louise Lincoln was her protege and became Killer Frost in respect to Crystal and was just as ruthless and cold blooded and hated Firestorm.


Caitlin Snow's version.... was far more a tragic villain than a super villain. She was trapt in the machine by Hive after finding out that they were actually who she was working with... and she spends much of her time looking for a cure for her illness and finds it temporarily in Firestorm until his death.

in the current mini-series she teams up with Steve Trevor (Wonder Woman character) to rescue members of the Justice League and fights with Dr. Light, etc.

So the Caitlin Snow version created in 2013 is pretty much entirely different character. One whose a villain out of a need to stay alive more than because she wants to be a villain (after she got her revenge on HIVE, at least) and is a more tragic, conflicted character whose more broken emotionally and is obsessed with trying to find a cure and recreate the Firestorm matrix in order to help her survive.

So it really depends on what they were going for... if they were using the namesake version of Caitlin Snow... then yes, they pretty much caught the character and in fact... she was probably MORE cavalier about being evil and killing people than Caitlin really is in the comics as Killer Frost.

If they were trying for the first two versions of her... they came somewhat close? but probably not all the way. And she did tend to be - even with the first two at times - snarky / flirty - as a character. Telling people to "kiss her frosty butt" or that she'd give them frost bite in places that they didn't know they had places, etc. Even in Assault on Arkham she's a villain and somewhat cavalier about things but also throws a joke in there, etc.

I think this version was something of a cross between the two or more strictly, pure Caitlin Snow's version. Someone who only became a meta human because she was betrayed by her co-workers and by and large, only did what she did because it was the only way of survival and was more focused on getting a cure then much else.




Agree, and they admitted that they were going for that initially but then changed course.

And I imagine that they just adapted the show version from the character's name sake who was a bright scientiest at Star Labs and was considered possibly their best or close to it, scientist or "young" scientist before being transformed.

Add to the fact that in this instance, Firestorm and her character were married and allied is also more similar to the Caitlin Snow version of Killer Frost than the others.






as for what I'd like to see if Caitlin on Earth one was to become Killer Frost?

I'd like to see her more or less as shown - someone who at times can be completely ruthless and cavalier about killing people to get what she wants ( see the bank scene, the confrontation at the end where Josephs' death, etc. means nothing)

but at the same time isn't someone whose entirely a uber villain ( see the alternate time line Reverse Flash or this season's Zoom)and is an occasional ally and someone who is more a grey character - kind of like RF was before revealing who he was. Someone who was using them yes, but someone who also saved their lives and had a real emotional connection and attachment to the team at the same time and someone who could either go all the over and be completely dark or in the right situation become more a "hero" but one who if they suffered loss or some trauma, etc... could revert back to their less good tendencies.

I'm a sucker for well done "grey" characters who are capable of doing bad things - either because they're an ends justify the means person or because they feel its protecting the people they care about, etc.-

FireQueen

Thanks for explaning the various versions of Killer Frost

The fact that she had a similar personality in the comics makes me feel better. I was afraid they had made her flirty and playful to appeal to the male viewers who want to see sexy female villains and that wouldn't have sat well with me.

I personally hope Zoom won't kill her. Unless they plan on turning E-1 Caitlin into Killer Frost someday it would be dumb to eliminate her E-2 counterpart too. This way they can always have her cross over to E-1 and interact with Caitlin if they feel like to.

bonnie51

agreed on everything.

If she had been based on one of the first two, she'd have been more RF and Zoom like.

And I hope your right on her not dying. but while I loved DP as KF I also have a different fear...


King Shark is coming back - in part - because of how much he was loved or liked. In part. The nerd love was huge.

So I hope - that if they planned on killing her - bringing her back - making Earth one caitlin her - making one of first two women her - whatever...

that whatever they had planned was planned and not just a reactionary to the ratings, etc.


DP was great as KF. I personally wouldn't mind seeing her as Killer Frost more often or playing her one Earth one as KF.

But that doesn't mean I want them throwing that into the story that they have going because sometimes - not all, but sometimes when you try to do that it doesn't fit and it becomes jumbled and it doesn't work -

Summer Falls

Arh i finally watched it. . It was the best episode so far i loved it .. it was so perfect

Heidsdk

it was

and yeah i dont hope they kill KF, but i cant wait to ssee the bacxkstory, thats for sure, on her

bonnie51

I hope they don't either, but since she doesn't go to E1 - I'm curious what happens to her?

Because again, Zooms not going to forgive her - he hasn't shown to have a single forgiving or sentimental fiber in his body - to date

unless you want to say that this "history" that they are supposed to have is the only reason he let her live at the end of the last episode?



Even with that, I'd think his "mercy" has its limits

scclarke

hereforshorttime

making one last post. overrated episode. I enjoyed but not the best. how did wells get past the breach the first time since the speed force is needed. why did Barry easily see through the glasses? why didn't the metahuman tracking devise not go off at jitterbugs when Barry walked in? why was killerfrost so intent on killing flash earlier and then you know what Zoom will do if you don't obey later? why did reverb just stand there and let zoom kill him? sorry a bunch of questions that i won't come back to see answered best scene BARRY 1 TALKING TO HIS MOM. I thought i would change my mind about coming back but no I still feel the same way.