FireQueen

Okay, got it

It makes perfect sense and I think it happened to me too a couple times.

I'm not so sure Wally/Linda will happen. The fact that Linda would fall in love with her friend's little brother opens up a series of interesting scenarios but other than that they sound similar to Barry/Iris with the speedster/reporter couple angle. I have nothing against the ship but I'm not looking forward to it, either

I am more excited about Linda possibly coming back as a friend for Iris even if it bothers me that the writers glossed over the Linda/Barry/Iris debacle of last season. Considering that Linda knew Iris and Barry had feelings for each other it would have been nice if they had used her to give Iris a PoV on Barry/Eddie while Barry was dating Patty and before the trip to E-2. That was a wasted opportunity imo and highlighted the fact that the show doesn't care about continuity and is extremely plot-driven.

I need more scenes to jump on the Wally/Jesse shipping train but they are very cute. The moment when she said she was proud of him was adorable I was a bit taken aback that she wanted to leave in the finale.

Iris still needs better dialogue imo. I could get behind the destiny talk if they didn't make it sound like it's the only thing awakening her feelings.

Iris has always been portrayed as someone who needs to be cornered before being honest with herself so if she needs the destiny stuff to find the courage to embrace her love for Barry then fine. It would be in character for her. That doesn't mean that the writers have to be lazy and not expand on what she's been feeling all along. Barry's love confession was one of the best moments of this show, he listed all the times he wanted to tell her and why he never did. Iris deserves something similar. I like that she said she loved him, though. I wasn't expecting it

Yeah, we'll see what happens with Flashpoint.

I would like for Joe and Barry to discuss Joe's love life for a change

Summer Falls

Wait is linda coming back?

FireQueen

^ We don't know it, yet.

bonnie51

Good point on the reporter/speedster similarities. And they might not. With Jessie staying around with Flash Point, etc... they might give Wally/Jessie a run there. Who knows.

Agreed. It would be nice if they allowed that to happen and gave Iris a friend and incorporated more stuff at CCPN. I mean, the track record of the show thus far has been to just kind of throw female characters into LI's but maybe that could change long enough for some girl time and friendship and POV, etc.


I was too. I mean, I knew she wanted too originally but then after spending some time with everyone and Wally, I was a little surprised. I mean I get there are people she knows there and is friends with, etc... so I can understand it being hard maybe to walk away from that life but still, was a little surprised as well.


She does. No doubt about that. and while the lightening rod was somewhat wasted since Barry was already ready to go home, etc... - like I said. I think it was better. Perfect? no. But I was rolling my eyes less and enjoying it more.

Agree


It was a good moment indeed. I was kind of expecting? not 100% sure it was going to happen but with the build up since E-2... I was thinking it might happen. Not sure where I was but it was probably like 60-40 lol IMO.

And I agree, Iris does need a moment like what Barry had. Its great Barry has these awesome moments and GG does a great job - but other characters need those moments at times too. Either for their POV or something else. It adds to their characters, their relationships with Barry (or others) and the show IMO.



This is going to sound weird... but I also think Barry's screaming face at the start of 2x23 was one of the best moments. not because Henry had just died, I'm not that morbid, lol, but just the emotion in that shot really kind of conveyed and carried thru the tv screen to me in that moment what a reaction probably would be like to seeing someone you love die right in front of you suddenly and in a horrible way.





Yeah, we'll see what happens with Flashpoint.

I would like for Joe and Barry to discuss Joe's love life for a change [/QUOTE]

Summer Falls

thanks

its interesting cause season 3 we have no idea how they will go with it

i want to know why did barry go save his mother why not just his dad?

hereforshorttime

Grant has chemistry with anyone. I don't care what anyone says.

bonnie51

I believe that he does, yes.

GG's ability to have 1x1 / intimate / etc scenes have made me about as much of a multi shipper as I've ever been in my life

hereforshorttime

I hope so I liked her the actress who played her.

hereforshorttime

what a sweet thing to say. I especially liked him with Linda, I enjoyed him and Patty as friends, and the Bro-friendship he has with Cisco.

Heidsdk

yrah ecatly the same here

FireQueen

I think he saw his mom's death as the origin point of all his sorrows. By fixing that he was probably hoping he could prevent all the other bad things that happened afterwards.

For me Grant has platonic chemistry and a good rapport with everyone but romance-wise I only saw chemistry with Iris and Felicity. I don't care what other people say and how many women the writers push on Barry, I don't think he has romantic chemistry with all of them. It's not a slight against Grant since he's a very strong actor but when it comes to chemistry either it's there, or it's not.

Personally, I can get behind a couple if the actors don't have explosive chemistry but the story has to interest me and it just didn't happen with Barry/Linda, Barry/Patty and the little we saw of SB. Chemistry issues aside, I mostly blame the writing.

That's just my opinion, of course

bonnie51

Basically, yes.

Don't entirely agree.

Yes and no. I don't know if its 50-50 etc... but chemistry, like anything, is subjective to a degree. To me, chemistry somewhat, not entirely, but partly, comes down to the old saying of beauty being in the eye of the beholder kind of thing. Not to mention shows can impact on some people view chemistry / moments. Lighting, music, etc.

Because while I enjoyed WA more than I ever had on the series in 2B... I've rarely thought "wow" in regards to chemistry. Do they have chemistry. oh, yes, without a doubt. For me in some of their scenes do I not really feel it? Yeah, on occasion. sometimes I've thought it was more platonic than romantic. They have good chemistry but I don't know I consider it great. I think it's improving. Again, part of that is the writing, the dialogue, the moments, etc....but I also think part of it is they seemed a little more comfortable IMHO at the end of 2B working off each other than I had sometimes felt earlier. Which is natural and to be expected in some ways. And I think with the quality of actors in GG / CP... it can improve even more if the show allows it to.

So while here does need to be something there - 100% agree - its not that simple, for me. because the show - if its doing its job - is going to influence things to a point where it can high light that chemistry. With the lightening, with the music, with the scene setting, etc. so while some viewers are always going to ship Ships A, B, C, D, etc... some are going to be on the fence and feel like Couple A outshines Couple B who outshines couple E, etc.

So on screen chemistry has 2 parts IMO. Part 1 is obviously the two actors or actresses, etc. Part 2 is the show. How it using what the actors have together and how it produces it. Some people are always going to feel X way. Others will just scene the music / lightening / theme of a scene and call that chemistry when there's more to it IMO than that.

Which is why I wouldn't say characters who haven't had romantic arcs yet - or won't - don't have chemistry romantically. because its hard to say if the show's not going for that. for example, do I think Caitlin/Cisco have good on screen chemistry? yes. caitlin/Wells? sure. they can play off each other well enough. but is it romantic chemistry?

i may not want to see those romantic pairings but I can't say if they'd have good chemistry or not romantically because I haven't seen it. SB had moments and was worked as the alternative in Season one but I don't know if they honestly had too many moments the show went full out romantic intent. There were intimate moments of a connection of sorts, sure... but the show's intent - at least from Barry's POV largely - was always platonic or possibly at best un clear as to what exactly he was thinking - and for the most part, so was Caitlin's. So I honestly don't know how it would work. Because I don't feel like I've seen enough of it. I'm kind of like doubting Thomas, I guess... I need to see it and then I judge. Since parts of it maybe where, parts of it or much of it wasn't romantic in purpose of the show... its hard for personally to say. I'd make the case Wally and Jessie have had more of a flirtation / hint of a romantic future possibly moreso than they did and again, they haven't had a ton of one yet.


I agree on Barry/Linda, though they had a short run, I never really felt much.

Barry and Patty was never something I was much interested in.

And I'll had Kara/Barry to the list of people I didn't get any real romantic over tones from. Now, if they ever did - and I doubt they will - could it be good? Sure, maybe? Just about anything's possible IMO... but I didn't get that feeling.

TBH, I didn't even particularly care always for Felicity and Barry. IDK if its because I knew it was a different show thing and a plot point, basically, etc. I liked their geeky - nerdy interactions but not always as a LI interest.

being honest, again, ironically, the only two characters right now I'd be okay with probably is Iris or Caitlin, from my own POV. Which part of me, again, doesn't even want. because then its kind of some strange rebound / love triangle / weirdness thing that I hate when shows do.

for me? if the writers would say look - SB is never happening romantically per say on the show, but we'll have moments like Season 1 that are open ended in terms of interpretation and you could make the case that in a different universe without Iris or on Earth 250.... I'm good with that. I don't nor never needed them to be together... I just take issue with them erasing for the most part what - what happened in Season one in terms of them interacting, having moments, etc.

if WA never break up and end the show together that's fine and it can always be platonic but if its more like S1 than S2 with SB... I'm 100% good with that. I don't need/want a kaokee episode or fake out kiss, etc, either. Basically moments that would imply that maybe in a different time, different place, different universe, etc... kind of thing. I don't need to see that universe, I don't need them to say that out load. I hope I'm making clear what I'm trying to say. If not I apologize and will come back and try again later, lol.

Barry noticing she's uncomfortable and saying he needs her help when he doesn't really at the lab, etc... it wasn't romantic at all. but it was a moment where you could say in a UA - yeah, maybe, OK, etc. that's all I ever really expected / needed from them. and again I don't personally want to see that UA if it even exists. because I think that takes away from the story that they could / do have on the show proper. or potentially make things really confusing if either of them remembered the UA.

which is why I'll disagree with myself from earlier and say that its probably good that the show's never addressed the every man kiss really. because obviously Caitlin knows about it, etc. but having it just be a brief weirdness was a good call IMO. and why in all honesty while I dislike 100% reliance on destiny - E2 was a good call having Iris and Barry be married because it did further the story line. I'd like the show to continue to focus on feelings and POV's more and more - but that was a good call IMO.

again, I don't need to see the UA etc. or really want to. or karokee, etc. i'd just ask the show to have it be more like season one and have moments where if you were so inclined - you could say that if this was different and this was a little different here - than maybe it'd work out because they did love each other but it just wasn't meant to be and it was always going to come down to other people for them in this timeline / universe / etc. and again, that'd be more than fine with me.

i just took issue with S2's kind of re-write and for a combination of reasons (Patty, Jay, etc) them not really having any kind of moment like S1 outside of really 2x01 or 2x22. Honestly, Barry's facial expression after Grodd took Caitlin or Zoom took her at first - that's enough, if you throw in moments more often. again, just emotional connection moments that are platonic because no love triangles or weirdness, please.

I don't know that I'd stop watching but there would be a decent chance as a good part of me would hate it on principle. 100% no, because I like to try to give everything a chance but I've seen way too few instances where all the characters weren't damaged or written strangely to be optimistic if something like that ever happened

Summer Falls

Thanks and i do agree i didnt like linda/barry romantically but as friends they were fun

FireQueen

Please note that this is just my opinion and I'm not trying to convince anyone who sees things differently.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear in my previous post but I agree that chemistry is in the eye of the beholder. When I stated that Grant doesn't have romantic chemistry with anyone but Candice and Emily it was my personal opinion, not a fact.

I think that some viewers are unable to empathize and self-insert with certain characters so for them it doesn't matter how much chemistry the actors have, they won't feel it. Biases aside, I agree that chemistry is largely subjective. Lighting, music, setting, dialogue and storytelling also play a part but I'll expand on it later...

The "problem" with WA is that the show started out with Barry deeply in love and Iris oblivious to his interest. The characters weren't on the same page emotionally so their chemistry was bound to improve the moment they started being more honest with each other. They clicked from their very first scene but the show didn't always frame their interactions as romantic, especially in the beginning. I think at first Iris was supposed to be attracted only to the Flash and the shift had to come the moment Barry confessed. Even before that, she sometimes had a flirty demeanor around him and I have always felt the romantic potential.

Also, I don't think awkwardness and what some perceive as "the characters being uncomfortable around each other" are necessarily a bad thing when it comes to people in love or at the very first stage of a relationship.
I don't like awkwardness when it's heavy handed and too much in your face like with Barry and Patty. I know that the show wanted me to see them as this adorkable nerdy couple but it came across as artificial. Barry and Felicity were also birds of a feather but their interactions felt more natural to me.

Fair enough. I kinda like Cisco/Caitlin and there were moments that made me wish the writers went there. Since the show never framed their interactions as possibly romantic this a good example of characters having romantic potential outside of what the narrative seems to suggest at the moment.

SB had enough moments framed as possibly romantic with music, lighting, setting, dialogue and storytelling. To me, they are the opposite of Cisco/Caitlin. The show was begging me to see their romantic potential and I just couldn't. They make perfect sense as a pairing and a romance between them could be kinda interesting if they go the Killer Frost route but I never felt the romantic chemistry coming from the actors. The show was telling me that Caitlin had never behaved that way since Ronnie but every time Barry ran into danger she came across more like a mom scolding her child than a woman worried about her LI. She wasn't like that in her scenes with Ronnie. The karaoke episode had the opportunity to highlight their potential and it didn't work for me. I guess I was supposed to get romantic vibes in that scene where he puts her to bed considering he had just seen her in her bra but nope, it felt purely platonic to me.
They have a good friendship and there's no doubt they work well together, I've just never felt romantic chemistry there.

So you think he only has chemistry with Caitlin and sometimes Iris or you're strictly talking from a story perspective?

Summer Falls

Yes thats why we have this thread people can discuss freely