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Old 10-02-2017, 08:57 AM
  #16
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Me too. I was actually more disturbed by it than feeling "oh he loves his son so much" which is what they were going for I was guessing. I haven't read the books (not beyond the first one anyway) so I don't know how much of this is just in the show and how much is from the books.
I haven't read the books either but I know somehow what will happen thanks to Tumblr My thought about the "Jamie giving his body to JG"-thing was that he felt so depressed that he didn't think himself worthy of life anymore and that's why he might as well do the worst thing that according to him could happen (after losing Claire), which was to experience again what BJR did to him. But it is just a theory I have.

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I'll start off by saying I have NOT read the books but have read DG timeline of all the books. So I have a somewhat idea what happens. So I knew about Geneva/Willie. But I was hoping they could cut it out. But I realize we need Willie in the story. OK that being said, I didn't care for how made Jamie act during the sex scene. I don't know. Did they have to make him seem so willing and 'In to it" no pun intended
I felt when he started out in the scene, he was being angry and showed it, But then gave her lessons during. I didn't need to see that. I am glad however he commented that it was not love. JMO
Before the sex and afterwards you could clearly see that he wasn't happy. But during the act I guess he, sexually frustrated as he was, got into it and finally getting release after not having sex in several years. But in the book Jamie/Geneva apparently "do it" several times in one night and let's say I am happy we only got just one time in the show
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Old 10-02-2017, 01:58 PM
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I am surprised that Jamie actually offered his body to JG. I know he would do anything to keep his son safe but still, it baffled me after what he has been through.
I couldn't agree with this any more.
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Old 10-02-2017, 02:56 PM
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I am surprised that Jamie actually offered his body to JG. I know he would do anything to keep his son safe but still, it baffled me after what he has been through.
What baffled me in the first place that he was ready for a friendship with the man, even though he knew John desires him that way.
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:08 PM
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What baffled me in the first place that he was ready for a friendship with the man, even though he knew John desires him that way.
I don't know, this didn't surprise me THAT much. I think he trusted John, that he wouldn't reveal his feelings like that again or make any inappropriate moves. John had been kind to him and I don't think it would have been right to throw that away simply because he was crushing on him. He obviously took no for an answer!

But as I agreed before, I was disturbed that Jamie offered himself like that, after what he had experienced. I also agreed with John that it was actually pretty insulting to JG...as though he would just take whatever he could get, even from someone who had clearly recoiled from him. I was disappointed and surprised that that scene happened, anyway.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:07 AM
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So I guess many of us agree that we were surprised by that scene I think it is in the book as well. Do we have any book reader here who could explain it further?
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:55 AM
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That didn't surprise me either. John was the only red coat who was nice to Jamie. The trust build over his quarterly visits. To want a friendship with the man who looks after you is not surprising to me.
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Old 10-03-2017, 12:11 PM
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:26 PM
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I think the offering of sex also shows how little his character has to offer now. He is starting from scratch. He has nothing to offer, but his body and it was such a powerful moment. Even more so that it was turned down... the friendship will be built upon this value.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:29 PM
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I don't think it's all that odd to be friends with a gay person who wants you. As long as they're clear about it not happening and get it, it doesn't need to be an issue.

I don't know what the writers were thinking,having Jamie say that. JG would have been there for Willie either way and he was marrying Isabel.

I'm surprised at how quickly Brianna changed her tune. It hasn't been that long since she was angry with Claire. If she sends Claire back, she'll never see her again. That's kind of sad.

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Old 10-03-2017, 02:41 PM
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Claire would never leave without Brianna.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:22 PM
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The trailer made me seem that way, which was surprising.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:35 PM
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I'd like to think after that speech she gave Frank last episode about him not taking her, that she wouldn't leave Brianna or at least make plans to go back for her.
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Old 10-05-2017, 07:56 AM
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I'd like to think after that speech she gave Frank last episode about him not taking her, that she wouldn't leave Brianna or at least make plans to go back for her.
I think Claire, is coming to the realization. Her daughter is growing up, and she will be able to fend for herself. Once she finds Jamie. I'm sure she will have no problem leaving Brianna behind knowing she's an adult.

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I think the offering of sex also shows how little his character has to offer now. He is starting from scratch. He has nothing to offer, but his body and it was such a powerful moment. Even more so that it was turned down... the friendship will be built upon this value.
I felt he was showing a side of true gratuity and friendship offering himself. Jamie hadn't known of JG marrying Isobel yet, when he offered.

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Old 10-05-2017, 09:24 AM
  #29
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I think Claire, is coming to the realization. Her daughter is growing up, and she will be able to fend for herself. Once she finds Jamie. I'm sure she will have no problem leaving Brianna behind knowing she's an adult.

I felt he was showing a side of true gratuity and friendship offering himself. Jamie hadn't known of JG marrying Isobel yet, when he offered.
I'd like to think Claire would spare her feelings and respect Frank, rather than telling Brianna, Frank made her unhappy and wouldn't allow them happiness. i also don't think she'd want Brianna to know he's an adulterer. But that's just me.

I agree! He could have easily accepted the offer and used his new wife as a cover for his sexuality, but he didn't.
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Old 10-07-2017, 08:35 PM
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I really enjoyed this episode - I'm glad they're including so many of the years of Jamie's life while separated from Claire.

I read the books some time ago, and my recollection of the scene where Jamie offers himself to John in exchange for caring for Willie was similar to the portrayal in the series. IMO Jamie is coming from a place of relative weakness in terms of negotiation, when asking for something which was very important to him.
From Jamie's perspective his body is the only thing he has right now to offer, having neither land nor money nor influence, nor being sure of the strength of the friendship they have.
He knows that John finds him attractive, and I think this scene may be more for us than the characters. It may be showing us that even though Jamie is going to leave his son behind, which some of us may find unfortunate/distasteful, this shows us that even with the history that we know of, which John does not, Jamie would do this to secure his son's future.

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