Ron_Beckett

I do watch Gotham.

I'm a DC girl. Always have been. I'll watch the Marvel movies and have tried out a few Marvel comics but just not my thing. My top comics are Superman and Green Arrow and followed by the rest of DC.

~*~*~

This is one episode I'll be watching again. I absolutely loved it.



That guy from Secret Life of the American Teenager actually turned out to be a great enforcer. His surprise to find out it was Barry was especially awesome.

scorpio_chick

I don't see Iris as being stubborn, or at least that is not her main motivation with The Flash. Rather, she found something that could help save her friend, she found something she wants others to know about, she found something that she's now passionate about and is not going to stop because Barry and Joe want to protect her. The latter are the ones with the flawed logic and I love that the writers are positioning them as such. Barry, in fact, knows that he should tell her the truth but even if he did, there is no guarantee that she would (or should) stop writing about The Flash. This is her story, one that is very much entwined with Barry/The Flash yet not based on her being his love interest. So far, I think the writers are doing an great job of developing her, of showing how she becomes the character we know in the comics.

Jade4813

I do think there is some stubbornness there, but I don't think that's a bad thing. Anyway, with Iris now being threatened over the investigation into Nora's death, I wonder if they'll have to tell her the secret (or accept that they do). Otherwise, they'd have to let it go to keep her safe - a decision I doubt either could live with, since they know his dad is innocent. Or they could continue, knowing she's in danger but not telling her. And that doesn't seem like a good idea.

If Joe tells her he's doing this investigation, I think he'd have to tell her why - which is why he hasn't let on to her yet, I think.

Wingster

Such a great episode...definitely need to rewatch

Against_all_odds

Same here. Brainy can't happen for more than just the distance. I like her with Ray and Barry and Caitlin are great. I'm looking forward to her seeing Ronnie again, but I multi-ship on this show. Slash, crack,uc,crossover-I don't care.



I agree about Iris,but everyone knows I don't like her.

Ah. I'm into a little bit of something from each company, because Dark Horse does the Buffy comics. I forgot who does Spawn and Sandman,but I like them,too.

Gotham's Bruce is perfect and so is Selina. I don't mind watching him as a weak, awkward kid because he's still complicated. He's not the main character,but he's a very likable Bruce. Gotham keeps Batman from bumping off my radar.

I want The Flash to be more like Smallville because it has the potential to be. It's more upbeat,it does have its moments of angst and would welcome extra characters. So long as they never, ever have a character as annoying as Lana Lang,I'll be happy.



[QUOTE=Jade4813;78990551]There is always a problem with characters that they start the show thinking, "and this is the love interest" because, all too often, they sort of leave it there going into the pilot and early episodes rather than really flushing out the character early on. I get that shows have a lot to introduce and a lot of characters to introduce to the audience, but it is a shame that they usually leave the love interest to be the last flushed out. Like, "You don't know anything about why we have Cisco on the show, so we're going to establish that. Iris is his love interest and you know why she's here, so we'll get more into her character later." It always drives me nuts, but I like CP so far, so I'm willing to give it time.

The other huge problem comes from her being the only major character on the show who isn't allowed to know his secret - probably because she's the love interest, and that's how the shows go. By necessity, that leaves her out of one half of the show's main plots. Which does tend to box the writers into a corner.

This. I have a problem with a lot of main girl characters in various shows I watch for the same reason. There's a general issue on tv with writing female characters properly and shows like Arrow are rare. I think she doesn't know his secret because of Joe, plain and simple. Until recently,she wasn't in danger and Barry tells her everything. Barry wants his father's freedom and needs Joe's support and discretion a lot more than he needs to share with his bestie.

Take Gotham, for instance. Barbara Keane is so damn boring. The only interesting thing about her is her relationship with Renee and it's depressing. I find myself hoping she accidentally gets hurt or killed because then she'll be even remotely interesting. That's terrible, because she's Batgirl's mother-The audience shouldn't be bored with her. On Constantine, I'm not really feeling the female characters. Zed...is meh. It has more to do with how they're writing her-Same with Lucy Griffith's character.

Jade4813

I'm pretty behind in Gotham, but I understand from my brother that she's in the dark about Penguin and it makes no sense for her to be. That kind of thing is almost always irritating to me. As for Zed...yeeeeah. I'm with you there. I don't hate her, but she irritates me a bit. Well, I should more accurately say it irritates me that they beat you over the head with the "role" they want her to play in the team dynamic. Proooooobably doesn't help that I find the character as interesting to watch as paint drying.

As for Iris, I'm sorry to hear the fandom has driven you off! I confess that's why I pretty much am exclusively here. I tried Tumblr and saw some pretty awful things said about Iris by (I assume from the content of the posts) Snowbarry fans and what I saw led me to think that would probably go both ways if I checked out that tag. I bailed pretty fast - not much of a Tumblr user anyway!

As it is, I actually like all characters on the show. I don't multi-ship romantically (it's rare for me to do so in any fandom), but I really enjoy the Caitlin/Barry friendship. I'm careful about my exposure to the various camps - keeping to more positive places like this - so that I can continue to do so. I remember how bad it got with Smallville (I distinctly remember the first time I came across a conversation about how ED should actually get run over by a car and die for having the audacity to play a character who would end up with Clark instead of Chloe.) I probably would have been disappointed in Chloe's trajectory anyway, but the Chloe/Chlark fans drove me first to apathy about a character who had been a favorite to downright loathing by the end. By the finale, I couldn't have told you who I hated more between her and Lana (who I'd hated from late season 1 / season 2) - so that's saying something.

Definitely being more cautious now. I'm sorry to hear fandom's driven you off Iris, but I certainly can understand how fandom can exacerbate problems you have with a character. And I say that loving Iris, personally, but understanding to a degree why not everyone does.

Against_all_odds

Eh-Like you said, it happens in various fandoms. Chloe fans were scary as hell, so I hear you. I loved her, but they got vicious as hell. Lois was never a ho and she's supposed to wind up with Clark. Chloe married Oliver, so I really doubt she cares about stupid Clark. I mean, Justin Hartley versus Tom Welling?

Don't you post on any of the superhero boards? I got my news about Garber and Malese Jow from there. Maybe it's because it's 99.9 percent dudes, but I find that it's a more positive place. Like guys give a crap who's in love with who. They're too busy arguing about issue and verse debates, whether each actor is good enough and whatnot. Superherodb is full of people who update the comic and tv database,so they don't care about anything but the actual comic fandom. I mean, Chloe and Felicity have been fairly well accepted,but they're not shippers and don't care who Oliver sleeps with. If anything, they'll get annoyed about Sara because she's not the real Canary and quibble about who Harrison is supposed to be.

I don't get why Snowbarry people are being stupid. Who cares who each of us likes and dislikes? Jesus, who cares whether your ship is different or better than mine? I mean, I was disappointed that Grant and Stephen don't want Oliver and Barry to get slashed, but I don't care or need anyone to agree. You can find fic and art for virtually everything.

I'm worried about the promo. Why would Barry need to calm down? What could/would Oliver say to make him that mad?



ETA: Who would win in a fight, GA or Hawkeye?

Jade4813

I used to go on comicbookresources, but after inappropriate behavior by some members following the Teen Titans #1 cover critique, the board went all scorched earth and deleted everything to start from scratch. I'm not saying I blame them, because there was some REALLY inappropriate things going on online at the time, but I never re-registered because the fact it had to be done kinda soured me in the whole thing. I don't know. I think fandom can be wonderful - one of my bridesmaids was a girl I first met on a fan message board. It's awesome that people can get so excited about a show, book, etc., but there can definitely be a darker side to it, too.

Making a general search for fan art online a dangerous experience and not for the brave at heart! But I don't mean to pick on the Snowbarry shippers. I think every camp has its share of people who are happy to play in their own sandbox and leave others to theirs...and those who just seem to enjoy the war. I tend to be more relaxed about it because of Smallville taught me anything, it was that TPTB will do what they want to do, regardless of fan reaction - at least when it comes to major plot issues, like who will date whom.

[quoteI'm worried about the promo. Why would Barry need to calm down? What could/would Oliver say to make him that mad? [/quote]

Doesn't the bad guy sort of amplify emotions? Maybe Oliver doesn't do anything too out of line, but because of the effects of the bad guy, Barry just responds in the extreme. Somewhat like RedK!Clark. Maybe he says something that Barry interprets as him not taking Barry seriously. Or I gather they have different methods to get the job done and Barry thinks he goes too far?

Well, because...you got me there. [sp] Because he wanted a little direction but not a full assist? Like "just tell me where to go; don't try to join!"

Well, Hawkeye does have exploding arrows...and BW at his back if anyone tries to hurt him. I'm talking about the movies, of course. In the comics...well, is GA distracted by wanting to sleep with something?

Against_all_odds

I like Superherohype-It's a decent mix of both. Superherodb has some vicious threads with too much inappropriate language,but it's because they believe that Bane and Talia could beat the crap out of Harley Quinn, think GA owns Batman and stuff like that. It's not that they're yelling at each other as much as saying "You're taste is awful, bro." That's the downside of male-dominant forums. You won't see shipper wars or ships being discussed in general, but if you're offended by foul and possibly extreme language,don't bother. I don't really care if I get called a c**t,but others may.

I met one of my best friends through this board and went to her wedding,but I don't make it a habit to tell people my real name. Fandom can be fun,but it's also the internet. People can stop being friends easily if one doesn't like the other's show or character and crap like that.

Hey,people will ship the grossest stuff and unless it's non-con or involves a massive age difference,I can ship about anything if I see it. TPTB doesn't just do what they want,they sometimes pander too much or exacerbate things. Wars of any kind are for people who have no life.

Then screw him,lol. RedK! was hot and actually gave Chloe the time of day. I love that Barry is like Spiderman because his cockiness is adorable. He should be excited-He's the fastest man alive!



omg....

It's on superherodb,so yes,it's comic GA. Their debate on who's going to win the fight is funny. I'm sorely tempted to correct their grammar,but I kind of want some of their predictions to come true. For the record? Hawkeyes will automatically win if he catches Oliver in bed with Bobbi or Natasha. His wife trumps his ex, but still-You know it could happen with any GA.

Jade4813

Yeah, you gotta play it safe. I think I knew the girl who became my bridesmaid online for at least 4 years before we even decided to contact each other off board, and then it was another 4 or so before we started meeting in person.

I realized my comment had a mistake. It should have said "not for the faint of heart!"

I think on a small scale, they can definitely be influenced. But I don't think they're going to derail the story they want to tell for the sake of ships. I know Felicity's quite popular on Arrow (and can understand why, from what I saw of her on Flash). But even if she's 10x more popular than every other female character they ever bring in, I don't think that would influence them to make her Black Canary, if they have another plan in mind. (I understand Laurel isn't the most popular character, and a lot of people aren't wanting her to be BC. But if TPTB do, I don't think all the fandom wars in the world will get them to change the plan of the story they want to tell in making her BC.) But can it influence them to throw some shipper bones to get the fandom riled? Smallville was notorious for it. But, using Smallville as an example again, AlMiles clearly loved Clana, so even when there was a good deal of backlash against Lana and the Clana ship, they were okay with throwing bones to Chlark, but I don't think they would have ever gone, "Oh, people like Chloe better? Okay, we'll just have Clark end with her, then!" (I'm convinced if AlMiles had stuck around and been able to get KK to do the same, it would have been Clana to the end, when it would have finished with some epic tragedy. Last shot would have been Clark looking at his Superman costume with tears streaming down his face or something.)

But it's like with the Flash. If TPTB want to make Caitlyn into Killer Frost and have a particular trajectory for her character, I don't think they'd throw that grand plan to the trash just because there are shippers who want her with Barry. That said, if they aren't planning to go there with her character until, say, season 4, I could see them playing with the ship and throwing bones to the shippers until then. The same could be said for any grand plan involving any character, really. Which has my friend very concerned when it comes to Joe, since it seems likely he'll die at some point, even though people - including her - really love him.

I do love the little fist pumps and things he does when he wins at the end. It's so endearing, and it really makes sense. His character is still so young and not jaded, so he gets like a guy about his age would if he actually got these amazing powers.

He does need to learn to not take his mask off in front of bad guys, though!

Against_all_odds

Poor KK-It still haunts her even now and whenever she's on a show,people immediately think she's going to be Lana Lang. Until Lois arrived, I was sick of Smallville. Hell, until Oliver came,I was bored with the show.

From what I can see, Laurel is getting grief for a lot of reasons Iris is. I think it's irritating that Iris references have to bash Laurel,but people who dislike her outside this board don't think she's been developed well. They blame the CW, but she's not their vision of BC/Laurel. People who dislike Iris are fairly civil and again...they blame the CW.

It won't change anything for me-I was hardcore Clex. Until they became enemies, I enjoyed their scenes together. Even as enemies,they were still fun to watch. The only bad thing about Caitlin becoming a villain is her relationship with Ronnie. I mean,wouldn't it suffer for it?



Again...that's kind of a joke going on. As with everything,its the CW's fault.

Liyah08

Re: fandom stuff, I must admit I'm one of those who gets easily riled in on a ship. I'm easy to please, it could just be a look and I'd immediately get ideas. Having said that, I'm more of a passive shipper. And I've always been just a lurker. I occassionaly join conversations when I find it interesting and I'm almost sure that people won't attact me for what I have to say. Tumblr is real scary for me.

My issues with Iris is more on the connection that I want to feel with her. I had the same problem with Laurel that's why I always mention her in relation to Iris. I feel like I'm not being given much to hold on to. And I really want to connect with Iris the same way that I immediately connected with Caitlin. I can't really describe or explain what I'm looking for in her character. I imagine that it's something that I would just feel when I watch her, but I still dont feel it.

Against_all_odds

I was like that when I first started posting on this board,but when I started being really rude,I stopped once I realized what I was doing. I refuse to look at Tumblr, either. I lurk more than post on superherodb because I'm used to being here. Superherohype is more like FF and has rules,so it's easy to post there. I like Superherodb,but no one enforces rules and when people use slurs or talk serious trash,other commentators tell them to stfu. I actually post on the Candace thread there because the conversation is so balanced, civilized and honest.

I have that same problem and so do people on superherohype. They have the exact same qualms we do and more. A lot of them prefer comic Iris to show Iris and I like that they're attacking the CW's formula and writing instead of the character. The twerking thing pissed everyone off, but even if it made her look like an idiot,they questioned the writers for being so corny. I should have done that,but it was just so off-putting. The show is already relevant and the writers obviously realized their mistake.

Tbh,they have a point. The show shouldn't be obsessing about Barry/Iris as a ship or any ship, period. They should care more about the actual comic hero portions and make it their main focus, like Gotham does. Female fans get a bad rap because of shipper wars and other stuff. It was awkward when they mentioned how every actor on a CW show just has to be attractive and they want girls who've never read the comics to swoon,but luckily, the few who think that are civilized enough to get corrected. I did go crazy about his looks immediately and should know better. I didn't go nuts about Stephen, I went nuts over the character.

I think next week will make serious strides in overcoming that barrier. I'm not a "typical" female comic show viewer,which is why I'm on places like that. It's not just to avoid any shipper wars or drama,it's because I think they do need to know that not all girls who watch Arrow and The Flash are CW dingbats who just want to see some cute actors,abs and swoon over romance.

Elektra

I agree. The ships are icing on the cake (and I have my preferred ones that I'd be disappointed not to see), but I started watching these shows because SUPERHEROES. I mean, I was reading comic books before all these shows and movies started popping up, and the comic books weren't about shipping. I was just excited to see my comic book heroes come to life on the TV or Movie screen.

I enjoyed Arrow long before any Olicity stuff started, and while I do like the ship, it's an added side story and not the main narrative like say Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman, which was heavy on the Clois with some awesome super-heroics thrown in.

I'm enjoying The Flash just because it's a fun, awesome show (and I watched the old '90s series as well).

As long as these shows continue to keep my interest in the main storytelling, I will continue to watch them. The ships are not the end-all and be-all. I think a lot of people on Tumblr forget that. I lurk on Tumblr to find some fun gifs and whatnot for my favourite characters, but instead I see people posting in those character tags bashing said character for the simple reason they interfere with their preferred ship. Sometimes it just makes me want to

Ah well...

Gosh, this thread has gone sooooo far off-topic

scorpio_chick

Well honestly, not everyone is going to watch a show for the same reasons. Some people watch this show because they love superhero shows/comics, some watch because they love Barry as The Flash, others watch because they love Grant Gustin, or because they love the diversity of the cast, or because they love Barry and Iris. All of these are perfectly legit reasons and IMO, should not be dismissed as less important or valid.

As for Barry/Iris, they are most likely going to get a lot of focus on the show because their story is central to The Flash legacy. And Iris, outside of Barry, is the most developed character on the show thus far. If you're not feeling her, that's fine but it certainly can't be because of lack of airtime/story/development.