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Old 09-04-2018, 04:36 AM
  #106
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Season 1 is a great season but I don't think it was that great for Caitlin. There were episodes where they bounce her back and forth between wanting to find Ronnie, then leave him for dead, then find him and then giving up on him again. It's only gone downhill for her character as the years have gone on. Her Killer Frost story is ever changing. She's had two pointless relationships back to back. So maybe that's why Season 1 is the standard.

Her relationship with Cisco only suffered in Season 4. She still wanted to help people in Season 2 despite having lost Ronnie. That didn't change. So I don't agree with that. I think that for Caitlin fans who are also Snowbarry fans, Season 1 is the easiest season to wish their could be a potential romantic relationship for those two despite Barry being in love with Iris and Caitlin in love with Ronnie. As the seasons go on it's hard to pretend that's the case, nearly impossible with Barry being a husband and father.

It seemed like Snowbarry fans pushing for her to be a romantic interest gave license the writers started to treat her that way by throwing every white guy as you said at her through the seasons. Killer Frost is meant to be her storyline. Season 5 could be her greatest season. I'm hopeful.
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Old 09-06-2018, 06:30 AM
  #107
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That Season 5 is better for Caitlin
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:10 AM
  #108
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Her focus is the Killer Frost origins. So it's on the right track.

Seems like Cisco and Ralph will be helping her along the way. Little trio.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:29 AM
  #109
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Yes it is Which is something
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Old 09-08-2018, 11:20 PM
  #110
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She had DID. There was her and Killer Frost.

Might not even be becoming a meta that was the cause.
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Old 09-09-2018, 02:52 AM
  #111
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They've never explained or mentioned DID on the show throughout their retcons. Unless I missed it.
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Old 09-09-2018, 06:31 AM
  #112
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I can't remember that either
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Old 09-13-2018, 09:58 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlingcity (View Post)

Season 1 is a great season but I don't think it was that great for Caitlin. There were episodes where they bounce her back and forth between wanting to find Ronnie, then leave him for dead, then find him and then giving up on him again. It's only gone downhill for her character as the years have gone on. Her Killer Frost story is ever changing. She's had two pointless relationships back to back. So maybe that's why Season 1 is the standard.

Her relationship with Cisco only suffered in Season 4. She still wanted to help people in Season 2 despite having lost Ronnie. That didn't change. So I don't agree with that. I think that for Caitlin fans who are also Snowbarry fans, Season 1 is the easiest season to wish their could be a potential romantic relationship for those two despite Barry being in love with Iris and Caitlin in love with Ronnie. As the seasons go on it's hard to pretend that's the case, nearly impossible with Barry being a husband and father.

It seemed like Snowbarry fans pushing for her to be a romantic interest gave license the writers started to treat her that way by throwing every white guy as you said at her through the seasons. Killer Frost is meant to be her storyline. Season 5 could be her greatest season. I'm hopeful.
I didn't mean she stopped wanting to help people, but that it was one of her defining characteristics that wasn't a guy, as a reply to someone else who said she was defined by Ronnie.

To your point about fans wanting the romance with Caitlin/Barry, perhaps, I don't know about that, but for people watching the show wanting to see a good comic book superhero show, Season 1 was good while the rest have been mediocre (S2) to terrible and haven't developed the characters. Not sure what the reason is, but that's the show now.

I mean... a good writer doesn't need to throw a guy at Caitlin or separate/diminish the Barry/Caitlin friendship in order to keep shippers at bay. Shippers will ship. Also, the writers wanted to write a B/C romance, but Grant Gustin shut it down, probably having seen what happened with Arrow and fearing that if Barry and Caitlin became a couple, the comic book couple would never happen.

But overall this show/verse is just really bad at writing for/developing female characters, and The Flash is a culprit when it comes to characters in general.
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Old 09-13-2018, 04:10 PM
  #114
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It's the same pattern with every DCTV CW show. Arrow, The Flash and Supergirl. As the seasons go on the quality decreases. That's just how it goes. There are elements that people hold onto which make it worthwhile for each fan. DCTV is a cash cow despite them not being as progressive with their shows as people would like.

All we have to do is look at Supergirl to know they struggle to keep the focus on female characters and give them the respect they deserve.

Fans/shippers misunderstand how the writers room works. Iris/Joe don't share scenes. It's not to keep "WestWest" shippers at bay. It's just because the writers have zero investment in their dynamic. That has been the case for Barry/Caitlin since season 2.

I appreciate that Grant Gustin said and trust that he wasn't interested in Snowbarry. It's been clear since the beginning that he's a Westallen "shipper". However, the only person who every brought up Snowbarry was Andrew Kreisberg. He's the only EP he could have been referring to. Greg Berlanti and while he was there Geoff Johns only ever considered Westallen. Grant Gustin himself, great as he is, isn't powerful enough to control the show. It's just clear where he wants it go. From Grant's interview, I don't think he ever feared Westallen wouldn't happen after that, because he described it as them entertaining in between relationships. He was just more interested in Barry being with the love of his life, than having pitstops.

Again, I think Caitlin could have a great season. If they stick to the family aspect and her origins.
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Old 09-13-2018, 06:26 PM
  #115
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That's very true about DCTV show when it comes to female characters, wish it was different though
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:32 PM
  #116
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One thing I did not want was for them to not deny the friendship between Caitlin and Barry over a ship war, as if the friendship between them (scenes between them in the series) was a forbidden thing to not disturb WA fans, and really hope that not only Cisco, but Barry can help Caitlin in her quest for her story and in recovering Killer Frost.

And if we see, Caitlin had no romantic interest in season 4 and it seems that she will not have in season 5, this is something to be celebrated in terms of the character and her background, that the focus now is the character and her history and not a romantic relationship.

And I hope that if they are to give a new romantic relationship to her that is in season 6, and that it is someone decent.

In other news:

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Last edited by Clarice83; 09-13-2018 at 07:52 PM
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Old 09-13-2018, 08:57 PM
  #117
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I do hope that her next relationship is kinda her endgame though

Thanks for that
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:00 AM
  #118
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She seems to be in search of her other half, as though she’s lost a part of herself.

Turns out Killer Frost might have existed long before she was exposed to dark matter in the new timeline.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:20 AM
  #119
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That's right, I always forget about that
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:21 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarice83 (View Post)
One thing I did not want was for them to not deny the friendship between Caitlin and Barry over a ship war, as if the friendship between them (scenes between them in the series) was a forbidden thing to not disturb WA fans, and really hope that not only Cisco, but Barry can help Caitlin in her quest for her story and in recovering Killer Frost.
That's never been the case. That's just what people who ship or once have shipped Snowbarry seem to have convinced themselves of. Do Iris and Joe not have scenes because they fear "disturbing" Westallen fans? If they were afraid of disturbing Westallen fans they wouldn't have had a double wedding.

With fans; when they're not being placated to you, they rationalize it's because someone else is receiving the placating. That's just not how the writers room works. Barry/Caitlin scenes have been diminished since Season 2 when Barry wasn't even with Iris.

It's like when people used to say Iris/Joe don't get scenes because Barry/Joe do. No. The writers just aren't invested in Iris and Joe's relationship. Barry barely had scenes with Joe this season and still Iris' status with Joe was the same.

I disagree with the help in her quest. I hate the idea that she can't go on self discovery by herself. Fans always add "and I hope Cisco and Barry can..." Why do they need to be included? What is it about her character that men have to be by her side every step of the way? That's been her greatest problem throughout the series.

I'd love to see Caitlin work through Killer Frost independently and with her family. When Iris said, "We'll bring her back" and Caitlin responded, "No, I will." That wasn't their nicest interaction but it was Caitlin doing something independently.


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