Wingster

IrishWristWatch

The feels! The feels! Oh that was so good!

Laughed so hard when Cisco said "I'm so glad you're back! Cuz we're all gonna DIE!!!"

My dd looked up "The Runaway Dinosaur" to see if it was real and unfortunately it isn't, so I"m just saying, if they start publishing this book, I would totally buy it!!!!

Elektra

* So, Barry gets a chance to talk to the Bajoran wormhole prophets Speedforce, and they tell him he needs to “move on” from his mom’s death. FINALLY someone (something?) said it.

* I guess no one ever explained to Henry what happened to Barry and that whole Eobard/Wells thing?

* I loved Cisco and Iris bonding, and Iris protecting Cisco! She was being so awesome this episode.

* Poor Greg Finley - being typecast as a Zombie on CW shows (although Drake Holloway was a way nicer Zombie than Girder was). And Cisco even called him iZombie!

* Oh Cisco – good try attempting to get Barry back, but there’s only one person who can get him out. *cough*Iris*cough*

* @ Joe trying to give Wally “the talk”.

* Iris: Barry, come home to me!

YES! Iris is Barry’s lightning rod!

* I guess it’s official: Jesse is a speedster.

* Barry, what the hell? Why didn't you kiss Iris? SERIOUSLY? She pulled you out of the speedforce!

Oh well, at least we got this: “The sound of your voice will always bring me home.”

* Oh dear, Zoom has a meta-army (or is hosting an evil Comic Book Convention). That can’t be good…

bonnie51

very well done episode. lots of heavy, good emotional content.


Do they kill Caitlin now - or wait until after she becomes Killer Frost? Because - and I'm a fan of DP / Caitlin BTW -

they've done a fantastic job this season of making her arguably the most pointless and irrelevant character I have seen in some time. And to do it all in under one season, to not even take a full season to do it? that's actually kind of impressive.

I will be at risk of dying of laughter if she's not KF at the end of the season and everyone's like " hey, we're so happy your back and OK, we were so worried"

Wingster

more so than Iris in season 2A?

bonnie51

in a word, yes. instead of the really long rant and post that most probably wouldn't care about I'll condense it down to this.


iris was sidelined, horribly written and under used. it was insulting it took most of a year to get her POV on Eddie. and it was nice of Joe to remember he had a daughter and not two sons only. But as bad as 2A was her - she still had a role in a story line that moved the needle (Wally's existence and then arrival) and one of the more memorable scenes from 2A was her and Barry right before telling Joe about Wally where she breaks down. As bad as it was and it was really, really bad - and that set up Wally and her sadly brief time apparently as an investigative reporter - which, you know, would always be nice to see more of writers (wink, hint, wink and hints)

she wasn't ( in my viewing eyes) made pointless, had the show literally create dialogue that had them not need her around and write a season long arc where the two believable options are either to turn her into a villain or kill her. and if nothing else, for better or worse the general fan reaction also kind of points to this where it was "Where the hell is Iris?" in 2A IMO there's a lot of "we don't need Caitlin for anything anymore because we have (insert someone here) now" going around the show. So when you have a lot of people who don't see the point in a character on the show and think they're pointless because of the story line of the show then yeah... I think its a little bit worse.



it was probably really close before 2x19, 2x20 and 2x21. because while Iris was marginalized horribly in 2A - so was Caitlin in a lot of ways whose only real role in 2A was to get kidnapped and mind controlled by Grodd or stare randomly at Jay with that relationship getting no constant development by the show IMO.

but her basically being written off the show - as far as her story line having less than zero impact on moving the needle - and then literally being written out of last night's actual episode and given the after credit scene which was basically a carbon copy rip off of the previous episode scenes she shot only even less - I'm surprised she even had to go to work at all to do what they asked, they could have made a DP mask and had some random chick of the same height and build do what she did last night - gives her the golden ribbon IOM

Wingster

thing is, is that Wally and his place in the story isn't really part of the season plot of stopping Zoom. While Caitlin being kidnapped does. And if it leads to KF...than it does serve a purpose.

bonnie51

considering what is coming- I think he totally plays a role because of what happened in 2x18. and 2x18 happened because of earlier in the season.

KF would happen because it didn't move the plot. Caitlin being kidnapped by Zoom has nothing to do with them stopping Zoom. It might have something to do with her becoming KF but no, not to the plot. Her being kidnapped as only had an impact on her. Maybe. IF they do Killer Frost. Which in the past every chance that they have had the show has said wasn't on the table and wasn't going to happen. Now maybe it will and maybe it won't. But that's a very big if.


Best guess for season 3 is her standing in the back, looking sad / grim and maybe slowly, slowly, starting to head towards KF and will maybe get there by Season 4 and will only take two years to do what took half a season or less to do with Wally and Jessie. So again, remind me what I'm missing as an impact or plot point.

its hard be part of the plot when this happens:

Joe: until you get your speed back we can't save Caitlin
Wells: We can't save her without your speed.

Wells: Good news! I know how to get your speed back and we can save Caitlin.

Barry: Not worth the risk.



Zoom kills random people and emasculates the Flash on the news - for the 2nd time.

Barry: Worth the risk.



Tell me again... how does them not wanting to take a risk when its about saving her - but then when its everyone else they do take said risk - about her being kidnapped?

Popcorn71

OK, this episode was on point!!! There's so much I like about this eppy:

Westallen- FTW!!! This is the best part of the episode for me.

Barry in the SpeedForce- this was beautifully acted by Grant. He was definitely tugging at my heartstrings. And the fact that he had to overcome himself to get out of the SF was highly symbolic.

Irisco- YES!!! Please, let's have more of them working together. I love their playful, sibling-esque banter.

Joe & Henry-I hope they can interact more.

Iris, Joe & Wally- love their family dynamic. Wally thinking that Joe was giving him "the talk", Joe breaking mugs once again, & Iris being a total badass.


Now for the things I didn't like:

It felt to me that there was a lot of editing that was done, b/c some scenes felt like there should have been more there.

Harry & Jesse- to me their scenes took away from the central plot of the episode. And since Wally hasn't manifested his powers just yet, that probably means that Jesse will, seeing as Barry gave her a jolt of electricity to wake her up. I'm not feeling her character at the moment, so hopefully when she gets her powers, she'll move back to E2. Speaking of Harry, how does he know so much about the SpeedForce? Was he ever in it? The only way he could have been is if he's

Caitlin & Zoom- it seemed to me that they were put in just as an afterthought, b/c I honestly forgot that they were supposed to be part of the episode.

Despite those misgivings, this ep is seriously in the Top 5 for me.

SuitUp

I loved the episode!

It was filled with such goodness.

Candice slayed! It was so amazing to watch.

- The Iris/Cisco duo "you get behind me"
- Iris vs Girder how brave and determined she was
- Iris/Joe/Wally "I gave you that mug"
- IRIS IN THE SPEEDFORCE, BARRY'S LIGHTNING ROD, BRINGING HIM HOME!!

The scenes with Barry and Nora were so beautiful. I thought that book was real too. So disappointed to find out it isn't. Such wonderful words. Publish it now!

I completely forgot about Caitlin and Zoom. When they popped up I was like "oh yeah"

Stelena&Bamon

What an incredible episode! The ratings were stellar

The whole episode from Barry in the Speedforce, Cisco as Vibe, Iris taking on Girder, Wally/Jesse now having the Speedforce.

They know paying homage to the comics is always the way to go.

I love how Barry saw the most important people to him in the Speedforce: each scene got more poignant from Joe, to Iris, Henry and finally Nora.
Barry and Iris in the Speedforce were awesome! When he heard Iris’ voice he instantly lit up and started going towards her. Kevin the director, and Zack were so on point their interviews, tweets and even the podcast. The lightning sparked when their hands met.

Barry touching Jesse was a Speedster thing because the lightning was yellow/red.

I put the blame at the feet of Caitlin's fandom. By romanticizing a platonic relationship (because Barry has been in love with Iris since the beginning and Caitlin loved Ronnie and loved "Jay") they painted themselves in a corner. There has never been anything Caitlin didn't do that they chose to interpret as romantic and it hasn't gotten her anywhere. After 1A I didn't understand where they were going with her character.

Sometimes even fans restrict a female character's agency with their self inserting. I was rooting for her initially then it became difficult, she's been pretty irrelevant all season.

Caitlin has done nothing all season and no-one has said anything. Outside of speaking scientific terms she doesn't even do HALF the stuff Iris did in that ONE episode.

2x21 was purely all Iris and the character she is - from luring Girder, having moments with Wally and Joe, Barry and Iris' relationship they are and have always canonical been best friends, even the Iris and Cisco banter that's kinda the premise of how their relationship was meant to be.

It's time to make Caitlin Killer Frost like her comic counterpart instead forcing her into this MUST BE BARRY'S DOCTOR AT STAR LABS for the whole series while he loves Iris forever. Caitlin and Cisco's "careers" are just hanging out in STAR Labs without jobs. At least with Barry, Iris and Joe, on the off occasion we see them at their jobs.

Popcorn71

I couldn't agree more. I was never a Caitlin fan; I could tolerate her, but her fans made me not care about her one way or the other. I just felt that the Caitlin/Zoom thing was not really needed at the end of an otherwise stellar episode.

Stelena&Bamon

I went from being interested in character to immediately put off when I tried to engage with her fandom. It was always contingent upon her non-existent relationship with Barry. It was so baffling. I've honestly never seen a fandom decimate their own fav like that in a while. They were so desperate and content with Caitlin being Barry's lackey. I'll never understand.

Even Zoom has just decided, meh, I'll let you go if it's what you decide.

Like what?!

But like I said fantastic episode. The team doesn't need Caitlin. Maybe she could actually get a job or a storyline instead of hanging in STAR Labs night and day?

SkyStillBlue

Wow. Took the words from my mouth as I just experienced first hand how the mindset of fans causing these problems.

activia

This is a top 5 episode for me. I rewatched it Sunday night (my husband saw it for the first time) and I got to watch him cry during the Nora scene. That was intense. I seem to be even more invested in this show now because I really cried tears this time not just welled up. That scene was magnificent and such an emotional episode. I REALLY REALLY want that book for my son! They need to publish it NOW!