JAL29

I've felt like she's been horrible to him a pretty fair amount. I do think some of that is because she was hurt, but she shut him down a lot. But I'm also more of a Deacon fan than a Rayna fan, so maybe that's my POV.

Ashley87

TV Fan.
That's a good point. Maybe Callie was saying that because she was talking up Luke, I don't know. I just remember when I read it I thought, WHAT!

Soap Bubbles
My error on the Deb episode.
I just didn't like that scene after the accident; I suppose I have too much of a soft spot for vulnerable Deacon.

Jjou

I did think she was really cold in that scene (and a few others) but more like because she thought she had to be iyswim? I think she was angry with him (and with herself) for almost dying and she had to shut everything down to protect herself. It did bug me at the time, because she wasn't really acknowledging her own role in the whole fiasco.

The only time I can think she really wasn't nice to him was that kind of condescending 'nice of you to come' scene in season 3?

JAL29

Maybe cold is a good way to describe it. She certainly has been that. And a lot of it has been around her inability or unwillingness to acknowledge her role in any of what has gone on since Deacon found out about Maddie. There were other times when I remember feeling like she was dismissive of him, but I can't bring the specifics to mind just now.

I'm just a softie for Deacon though.

soapbubbles511

Tbh I think they have a similar instinct when they're hurt and overwhelmed. He'll run off to the cabin (or more recently to his house since no one else is there) because he can't deal with people. She does it more subtly, without actually running away somewhere, but more or less the same idea. She can't deal so she emotionally shuts people out.

I miss Tandy being around for her to talk to. I really liked her conversation with Tandy in that episode, about how she felt when their mom died and realizing she had nearly done the same to her girls.

kn37

Yeah, I miss her, too. But it annoyed, that she had a bit of a negative attitude towards Deacon. I understand her that she didn't wanted Rayna to get hurt by him, but he changed. So I hope, when we're seeing her at the wedding, this is gone. But of course overall it helped Rayna to talk to her.

soapbubbles511

And there is a very limited number of people Rayna will really talk to. And when she doesn't have those people we get 3A where she just didn't talk to anyone except the couple episodes Tandy was around.

I can understand where Tandy's coming from. She's always taken it upon herself to protect Rayna. She knew about their mother's affair with Watty and their father's involvement in her death long before she told Rayna. Presumably that's a product of their mother dying and Lamar kind o bailing and feeling like she had to be the one to take care of Rayna. And Deacon was a mess for a long time. So I can see where she would have long since past her limit on trusting him with her sister. That said, another thing I really want from 411 is a good Deacon/Tandy scene and them making peace with each other

Clemgo3165

This was the quote that really made me question whether or not Callie watched her own show. The idea that Deacon and Teddy weren't her equals because they weren't "superstars" just floored me.

Luke was definitely less complicated than Deacon, but he had his own baggage and a bitter, petty, nasty temper. She never seemed like she COULD be herself with him.

I've been angry with Rayna any number of times too. Her condescension with the "nice of you to come" really hit me hard, as did her reply to him after the Rolling Stone article came out and she went to his house. She could have been much more gentle with him and still said the same thing, beyond selling out their relationship to the magazine without talking with him about it first. Keeping Maddie a secret for as long as she did doesn't help.

I can totally see Tandy's point of view with Deacon. While he's been sober for quite a while, he hurt her sister repeatedly and for a long time. She ended up pregnant and alone with someone she couldn't trust to be a father at the time. I'd be leery too if I were her.

madam magpie

I think it's interesting that Tandy sort of gets a pass for just watching Deacon hurt her sister over the years, but Rayna...who it all actually happened to...is always judged harshly. Rayna's done some questionable things, for sure, but it seems to me she acts mostly out of love and fear, usually both mixed up together. She should probably have left Deacon years before she did, but she loved him desperately. That put her in a super vulnerable position and caused her a lot of trouble. I certainly don't think anything she did was worse than what Deacon did over the years. (Yes, including lying about Maddie.) They've both betrayed each other terribly, and yet I also forgive them both for it completely.

I do think that there's something weird in the writing or the portrayal where Rayna sometimes appears dismissive. I can't figure it out. She's clearly not dismissive; in fact she's loyal and loving almost to a fault. But selling Deacon out to Rolling Stone and acting like it was no big deal and then it never coming up again was bizarre. Same with how she missed the bar opening and acted like she'd just been a little late to dinner. I think that "nice of you to come" was a total throwaway, though, and meant nothing, especially since there was zero follow-up. This show is hard to read sometimes because the follow up is often lacking, but I never got the sense before or after that the line meant anything.

soapbubbles511

Yes. This. She stayed with him for a long time. Five times in rehab is a lot. And even in that flashback with Tandy in 201 her first instinct was still to tell him. And honestly that's part of the problem. Her instinct was always to go back no matter how many times she'd been hurt. Because she loved him. And at some point she had to force herself to stop trusting that instinct. In some ways that's probably harder than not trusting him because she knows she can't necessarily trust her judgement regarding him. And that took a long time to get over.

JAL29

I have to disagree with you on the issue of lying about Maddie - I actually don't think there's anything worse than that. It's a betrayal of trust and, it seemed to me, that was a central tenet of their relationship, that total and complete trust (and love) they had for each other.

I actually don't give Tandy a pass, per se. I think she acts like a sister protecting her younger sister. The fact that she chooses to continue to distrust Deacon is how she reacts to this and is neither good nor bad. For me, in judging Rayna, it's because of that choice to lie to Deacon and hide his daughter from him (and conceivably never tell him). I believe she loves him completely and she made some questionable choices when she was younger. I even understand why she felt she needed to protect her daughter from the kind of life she had. But how that played out....I just think at some point she lost perspective on what the right thing to do was.

I do agree with you that the show makes weird choices on how they write the show, but then that pretty much goes without saying.

Clemgo3165

That's the way I see it too. I figured we'd lose dismissive Rayna after 3A so I was surprised to see her again in the last ep. I still can't get over Deacon wiping tears away as he heads out the back door. And even if she couldn't get away, why didn't she call to say she was still tied up? So odd and so unlike her, and them really when they've been in touch almost constantly since they got back together.

I hated the delivery on the "nice of you to come" line and I wonder if that was a choice by Connie, something that was directed, or just phrasing that comes off more harshly than it was meant to.

madam magpie

Agreed. I think that's why Connie sometimes played Rayna as cold when she was trying to stay away from Deacon. She tried to be detached, as in that scene from the season three premiere when she goes to tell him they can't be together, because it crushes her, but she cracks and fails when pushed because she's SO emotionally attached. She did it back in season one when the marriage fell apart too. There was a lot of "what do you want from me, Deacon," but there was also a lot of breaking down in the bathroom, freezing up on stage, etc. I actually think Rayna was the one who suffered most in the relationship and ensuing estrangement. She just learned how to use her steeliness as a way of coping. I always felt like the brief time they got back together in season one was a way of showing the audience who Rayna really is when she's in the relationship she wants. The rest was all subterfuge. That seems to have played out as they reconciled too. The closer Rayna and Deacon are, the softer, freer, and more joyful Rayna is.

Clemgo3165

Deacon is definitely her lobster even if the relationship is a complicated mess at times.

Rayna went into detachment mode right after she came out of the coma and pretty much stayed there through the end of 3A. There were a few moments here and there, but it was slim pickins for us D/R fans during that time.

Heart of Rhythm

In the words of Rayna in 311: "Even through all the hell we put each other through."