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Old 11-05-2015, 08:03 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Miranda (View Post)
I would suspicious as well. Let's just see how this will evolve and if he can really find Karakurt.
Oh yes, we'll see how it all works out... Maybe Asher is just so desperate that he doesn't even view Tom's behavior strange. I'm still not really trusting Asher's girlfriend tbh She somehow seems odd to me but we'll see. It's just a feeling.

Ryan doesn't tweet a lot lately though... Just when the episode airs but that's it. It's really sad because some pictures and stuff would be awesome
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:28 AM
  #62
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I just don't understand his storyline. I say it every week but it just feels so separate and distracting from the show.

He's in casinos doing cons with rich boys who he positively knows are tied to Karakurt. He's killing people for no reason except to get them to come after him. He's in fight clubs killing allies... I just don't get it.

I loved his character Season 1 and I just don't understand how we got here. If the writers were so in love with him, they shouldn't have made him so bad ass the first season and so destructive to Liz. It just seems like they want him as the reformed bad guy but he's killed so many people (and keeps killing) so it's hard to root for him in the sense that we think he's a good fit for her.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:50 AM
  #63
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Ryan live tweeted a little with last night's episode.







Tom seriously? Why do guys in movie or tv shows always go up against 5 or more guys when they are alone and get away with it? I never thought he would have killed Asher. I wish he would have chosen another way out.

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I loved his character Season 1 and I just don't understand how we got here. If the writers were so in love with him, they shouldn't have made him so bad ass the first season and so destructive to Liz. It just seems like they want him as the reformed bad guy but he's killed so many people (and keeps killing) so it's hard to root for him in the sense that we think he's a good fit for her.
Same here. I loved him so much in S1 and S2 and I still love his character but I don't know where it went wrong and I don't understand how it came to this and I really hate to see that cause I don't want to be negative cause this is an appreciation thread after all but it is sad they are doing this to his character.
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Old 11-06-2015, 01:01 PM
  #64
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I just don't understand his storyline. I say it every week but it just feels so separate and distracting from the show.
I'm really wondering if that really is what the producers were heading for when it comes to Tom and Cooper. It definitely is separated from the rest of the storyline but that's logical since they have a completely different mission... Not sure but Red doesn't even seem to consider getting his hands on Karakurt? Or is he kind of trying to do that without us getting it? I don't get it either, the connection I mean besides of all of them trying to help exonerating Liz.

I sometimes really feel unhappy for Ryan. He really is talented, that's for sure. I love that guy. I just don't like what they did to Tom. He would have been such a great baddie... And it would have felt in character where now he seems to try so hard to be different, to prove it, and then ending up killing an innocent again And we're back to square one.

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I never thought he would have killed Asher. I wish he would have chosen another way out.
Same here because that made me really sad I really held some tiny little hope that he had changed. And he tried but he's still the same.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:46 PM
  #65
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The problem is that you think that Tom has changed and it's that simple. The problem is that Tom is human and he's been trained to do what he does - which is lie and kill.

Now I think he would have spent the rest of his life from doing this and remaining changed out of this kind of life. Were it not for the exception of Liz. She's his weakness. Always has been.

He knows these guys. He knows they are killers. And Ashton, while he could have listened to Tom and chosen not to do fight, chose to believe there was no other way. The situation warranted Tom killing him. Was it a good kill? No. Was Ashton deserving of death? No. But he himself got himself into this life and did not try to avoid it. He would rather have killed Tom than to have been killed himself. Tom knew Ashton would have killed him if it was vice versa. So yes, there was, in a sense, the need to kill Ashton. Now had Ashton trusted Tom like he had asked him in the middle of their living room, perhaps he would not have been killed. If neither of them fought, how would the Russian been able to do anything to them? Yes, still a possibility of death, but either way there was.

I do not absolve Tom for putting the play in motion that got Ashton deeper into it with the Russians, but he was already under their thumb.

I think people ask a lot of Tom. He needs to be a perfect man if he is to be worthy of Liz. He needs to be a redeemed man. I just don't see it that way. He is flawed. That's what makes his character so interesting. Same with Reddington. I'm sure most viewers still like him. And he kills at will, if it suits his purposes.

The thing is, Liz has changed as well. She willingly killed that man. Instead of trying to get him arrested (which, it seems impossible for that to happen), she killed him. Is that worse? Is that better?

I think Ryan is doing a spectacular job! Love him.
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Old 11-07-2015, 01:18 PM
  #66
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And him being trained to lie and kill makes it okay? Not for me... More like the opposite, it makes him even more dangerous. He always had sociopathic tendencies. We know that because the Major chose kids and teenager with those tendencies for his school. And I'm not sure that a person that was that way as a kid, could ever change completely. Tom is trying but he will always fall back in his old ways

Asher didn't have any reason to trust Tom. The only thing he knew was that Tom was not who he said he was, that he was tricked and that he was a murderer... So tell me, what would you have done? Trust him and risk to be killed by a sociopath? I doubt that.

Quote:
I think people ask a lot of Tom. He needs to be a perfect man if he is to be worthy of Liz. He needs to be a redeemed man. I just don't see it that way. He is flawed. That's what makes his character so interesting. Same with Reddington. I'm sure most viewers still like him. And he kills at will, if it suits his purposes.
Redeem Tom? For me that's simply not possible. He is a killer, he lied, he hit Liz, he got Meera killed (and almost Cooper), he held Liz at gun point... I'm sorry, but for me there is no chance he could be redeemed.

Same with Red. The difference is, name me just one person that he killed that didn't ask for it or was innocent. I swear I can't think of even one. That's where the difference for me lies. Not in them being redeemable because they are not, they both are murderer, criminals, but the difference is that Red isn't a sociopath. He might be the most non-sociopathic character on the show because he's well aware of his behavior, his feelings, the consequences, everything...

Quote:
The thing is, Liz has changed as well. She willingly killed that man. Instead of trying to get him arrested (which, it seems impossible for that to happen), she killed him. Is that worse? Is that better?
Same as for Red goes for Liz... Liz is a murderer, but she killed Connolly, who was a criminal and not innocent as well. To protect those who she held dear... Still, that doesn't make her redeemable in my eyes either. It just makes her more like Red and less like Tom in my eyes.

What Tom did to a person he claims he loves that much, that already makes him sociopathic... He doesn't know what love really is IMO. How shall he know He never had a chance to experience that. But knowing his past doesn't make what he did any less horrible. And it's the innocent people who had to die that make the difference for me. Actions speak louder than words, right?
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Old 11-08-2015, 12:29 PM
  #67
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Yeah, but you're trying to reason out murder. For murder's sake.

This is the thing with this show. It makes the viewers choose and it weeds out where the viewer draws the line at killing being okay.

I don't care if you don't think Tom is redeemable. I believe that everyone should have the choice of changing their lives around. Do I think it's damn hard? Yes. Do I think that people falter, yes.

You are BLAMING a child who had certain tendencies, that was taken and brainwashed, trained and then set out into the world for becoming what he has become. I think that is RIDICULOUS. This is my issue where Tom is concerned. Did he have a chance of becoming a normalized adult through interactions and people who could have possibly corrected his course? No. I feel strongly about people who blame the victim in the situations for being who they are when under the constant supervision of a sociopath - who trains children to be his soldiers/agents of killing/stealing or whatever the job is.

It's like blaming a child for incest or rape or anything else. They know what they know from what they've been put through.

And how do you think Red became this big bad man? He didn't have to step on people? That's the magic of writing. There's no way in HELL I would believe in the real world that he didn't have to step on innocents along the way. Or that innocents didn't 'accidentally' get killed by the dealings he's KNOWINGLY had with criminals.

I will not buy into that BS just so I can feel better about liking the character. Which, I personally am not that fond of him. I enjoy him as a character. I enjoy that he's an antagonist/protagonist which moves the story along. Yes.

But will I EVER believe he's some kind of saint amongst the villains? No.

As for Liz killing a 'bad' man. Really? That justifies it? He's unarmed. He was not aiming a gun at her. There was no earthly reason for her to kill him except this 'knowledge' that he's helping the Cabal and he was 'evil'. Arrest him. Give him to Reddington to put him in some deep dark hole.

For all pretenses and the way everyone is ranting about Tom being a sociopath, then it would seem that killing should always be the last resort for EVERYONE. But everyone seems to give passes for the 'likeable' characters.

I don't disregard that he has gotten Asher killed and killed the harbor master. But I don't see the point in always calling him a sociopath and such when we knew that The Major made him this way. I doesn't make any sense that as viewers we expect anything different from him as this is how they molded him to think and be. Do I think Liz appreciated it in some twisted way, probably. I mean, she let him go the first time. And she was the one who did not choose to walk away so he didn't have to come back and save her a second time. If you don't appreciate the complexity of a character who isn't necessarily evil, but does bad things, then I don't know why you are on this thread.

The point of this thread is to enjoy his journey. And I think this is a wonderful outlet for Ryan to show his talent as an actor.

This thread is for people who actually like Tom, I thought?
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Last edited by jayta; 11-08-2015 at 12:42 PM
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Old 11-08-2015, 01:05 PM
  #68
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I just started to type a reply because I thought this was a discussion thread as well but since I read this:

Quote:
This thread is for people who actually like Tom, I thought?
I'll leave you guys be. I think Miranda will have a look at this thread in the future.
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Old 11-08-2015, 01:28 PM
  #69
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I just started to type a reply because I thought this was a discussion thread as well but since I read this:


I'll leave you guys be. I think Miranda will have a look at this thread in the future.
I enjoy discussion but I come here so I don't have to defend every single opinion I have on a character I like. I mean, when I first started coming here, not sure if I was one of the first ones, we discussed what we thought Tom's character should go. Or where we'd like for him change or hoped for things...

We understood his character was flawed and not perfect.

But I don't want to come here and listen to everyone say that he's a sociopath and in some sense imply the actor should look elsewhere for a better character.

That's frustrating and it is hard to have a discussion about.

No, don't avoid the thread. I think I should just avoid anything on this forum to do with this. Everyone seems to be of the same mind. Far be it for me to have a different opinion and start a row
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Old 11-08-2015, 01:37 PM
  #70
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The point of this thread is to enjoy his journey. And I think this is a wonderful outlet for Ryan to show his talent as an actor.

This thread is for people who actually like Tom, I thought?
You are right, this thread is to enjoy his journey and for people who like Tom but that doesn't mean that people who don't like him as much can't post their opinion in here. If we would all agree with each other every time it would get a little boring don't you think? This is what makes Ryan such a fantastic actor. He plays this role so well that we all have a very strong opinion on whether we like him or not and that we can discuss that. This thread is also for Ryan as a actor and a person and there are people that do love Ryan but don't like his character to much. I always say that I have a love-hate relationship with Tom. I love him as a character especially in S1 but sometimes I can't stand him and the things he does. It really goes up and down for me.
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Old 11-08-2015, 01:41 PM
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Jayta, I have to say I just posted in here because nobody who really seemed to love and enjoy Tom was or is actively posting. And I think that really sad because if there would be there wouldn't be a need for me to come over here. Because right now I really don't enjoy his storyline. I thought he had so much potential and I'm really disappointed right now.

But on a good note, I really love Ryan

Quote:
I enjoy discussion but I come here so I don't have to defend every single opinion I have on a character I like. I mean, when I first started coming here, not sure if I was one of the first ones, we discussed what we thought Tom's character should go. Or where we'd like for him change or hoped for things...
I really understand that and I'll make sure that doesn't happen in here again I promise you, especially since it's an appreciation thread.
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Old 11-08-2015, 03:27 PM
  #72
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You are right, this thread is to enjoy his journey and for people who like Tom but that doesn't mean that people who don't like him as much can't post their opinion in here. If we would all agree with each other every time it would get a little boring don't you think? This is what makes Ryan such a fantastic actor. He plays this role so well that we all have a very strong opinion on whether we like him or not and that we can discuss that. This thread is also for Ryan as a actor and a person and there are people that do love Ryan but don't like his character to much. I always say that I have a love-hate relationship with Tom. I love him as a character especially in S1 but sometimes I can't stand him and the things he does. It really goes up and down for me.
This is a Tom Keen/Jacob Phelps appreciation thread as well as Ryan Eggold. If this assumption is that this is solely about Ryan Eggold then perhaps you should change this to the Ryan Eggold thread, and a new Tom Keen/Jacob Phelps thread could be started?

Most of the time, things align when it comes to appreciation thread, but it doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:21 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by jayta (View Post)
This is a Tom Keen/Jacob Phelps appreciation thread as well as Ryan Eggold. If this assumption is that this is solely about Ryan Eggold then perhaps you should change this to the Ryan Eggold thread, and a new Tom Keen/Jacob Phelps thread could be started?

Most of the time, things align when it comes to appreciation thread, but it doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.
All the characters/actors have one thread on this board. We discuss both the character and the actor in the thread. It has never been a problem so why should it start now? I am not going to make a separate thread for Tom and Ryan. If you don't agree then I am sorry.
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:01 AM
  #74
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I wasn't being negative in my post above Jayta. Just stating that I don't understand how we got here with his character.
In all fairness, I say the same things about Ressler in his thread and I love him. I just didn't like what the writers were doing with him last season AT ALL.

And I love Ryan Eggold. I've always said that I wished they would've written his character to go a different direction in S2.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:16 PM
  #75
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All the characters/actors have one thread on this board. We discuss both the character and the actor in the thread. It has never been a problem so why should it start now? I am not going to make a separate thread for Tom and Ryan. If you don't agree then I am sorry.
I totally agree with Miranda. We have talked about it before she posted this in here as well and we agreed that it's not necessary to have separate threads for Ryan and Tom/Jacob. It worked really fine so far and it for sure will in the future.

Maybe we could agree on trying to keep this thread really for appreciating Tom and/or Ryan and keep the criticism of the character in the discussion threads. It might not always work but I can totally see where you come from, Jayta. We'll try our best and I'm sure our posters will go along.
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