Fangirl49

Watching her shoot Connolly it does look like something is wrong like it did with Ressler in S4. Are her memories of killing her father really coming back or has she been manipulated into it. I honestly think it's her memories returning; not a manipulation.

And she sees her parents fighting and the gun got lost I remember a scene where Red is talking about it and he says something like a gun should never be where a child can get it. Or something like that. I don't remember the scene or episode just that. Was it Cape May?

And in Cape May, Katarina says it wasn't how he died or the way he died, it was what I said to him right before he died. What is this about?

Miranda

I remember Red talking about that but I don't remember in what episode it was but I clearly recall him saying something like that.

I think when Liz shot Connolly the memories really came back and that she wasn't manipulated into that.

Maybe Katarina argued with (for this sake say) Kirk and she told him that he wasn't Liz father but Red was?

Lauren Helen Graham

No, she was alone with Dr. Orchard... She even called her and wanted to meet with her to talk about what she'd seen during the memory extraction. What if it happened at some point there?

The beat up definitely wouldn't fit the time line

Marilyn, I definitely believe that it's really her memories returning at the end of episode 2x22 as well

And yes, I recall this episode where Red says that but I don't recall which episode it was

So you think that Red and Kirk both were there the night of the fire? It never was indicated that Kirk was there, was it?

Fangirl49

It could have happened st that meeting with Orchard. It must have happened outside of what we saw on the show. I could have sworn the writers said there was an "Easter egg" in S2. But I didn't see anything.

Miranda

All of a sudden, I don't trust Dr. Orchard anymore. Also because of what Marilyn said in the S3 thread and now I read your comment Kris and I am thinking that she could have been the one because she was alone with Liz. But like I asked in the S3 thread, who would told her to do it?

No it was never indicated that Kirk was there. For a moment I thought he could have been there when they said that he was Liz's father but now I don't think he was there.

Fangirl49

I'm all for Kaplan telling Orchard to do it. But I think by this time the cabal knew who she was. They learned in the Braxton ep so they could have manipulated them. We just don't know to what.

Miranda

My head is really spinning. I wish we just find out what really happened.

Lauren Helen Graham

I doubt it was Dr. Orchard. Really. Krilov manipulated her memories, we know that much... And Orchard was the victim there. Braxton wanted to extract memories, so he would never have altered any. Neither would Orchard have been involved into anything of it with Krilov It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Miranda

So we are for sure that Krilov did it when she was a child but you are probably right that he also did it two years ago. If that really happened that is.

Lauren Helen Graham

Yes, he even said so... It was either him or the second manipulation didn't happen.

Miranda

I am starting to think it might not have happened at all. We can't figure out a time frame or what they should have had to manipulate.

Lauren Helen Graham

I still am convinced it happened. Or maybe I am because I think it super excited that we have such a mystery lingering still...

Do you think it'll be of topic at some point between Red and Liz?

Miranda

I don't know. I hope it will. If Liz really wants to know if it happened I hope she is not going to led it slide.

Fangirl49

I'm scared the writers are going to drop it.

Lauren Helen Graham

Me, too... It wasn't even mentioned anymore. Do you think it's still a problem that lingers in the back of Red's mind? Do you think he might know who it was? Do you think he might try to find out who did it and why?