L i N d $ @ y

Me too. I did like how they were in S1 but this season there was just too much love-hate going on. It's okay but it's not what I want for these two.

Ugh this is me Kris. In one ep I'd think Red is Liz' father and then there'd be another ep (especially the recent one) where I'd think they're hinting on the romantic side as well.

One Thing Remains

I think they do that on purpose to torture us and keep us guessing

mycreativityuppedandleft

Do you think the writers are doing it intentionally? If so I find that kinda weird

Lauren Helen Graham

Yes, that was intended to be for you The question I mean.

And I don't really know if they do it on purpose... I'm not sure if any of you has ever read the original script for the Pilot, I have. And damn it, Red has been sooo weird in there and done things I don't even want to think about. He for example had kissed Lizzie's scar when they were sitting in that box and he asked her if he could see it. I somehow have the feeling the daddygate only surfaced because the audience was getting those vibes. I'm not sure if it was intended from the beginning but when the writers became aware of it they started to do it on purpose. The back and forth between the two outcomes of the relationship.

mycreativityuppedandleft

I'm of the paternal persuasion because that was where I was at from the beginning so it would be weird to me jumping to the romantic side when they have still got all their balls in the air so to speak. I just meant it is cool that people see it differently, keeps life interesting.

And I am glad they didn't do that

Lauren Helen Graham

I'm on the paternal side of things as well. But like I said before, I really wouldn't mind if there is a romantic outcome at the end. It wouldn't be what I hoped for but they would be together and really close, their relationship special. That's what I'm hoping for in the end and if it's paternal (which I'd prefer) or romantically doesn't really matter.

Btw, you know what I had to think of? Lizzie's Little profile of Red, the one in the car, about him not feeling deserving of it, made me think if that's the reason why Red never has tried to defend himself when Lizzie blamed the death of her dad on him in Luther Braxton. He started two times, telling him that it wasn't that simple and that the memory of a four year old isn't reliable. But afterwards he accepted it although we know he had his whole back burned and maybe even by saving her life, it maybe being him lying there on the floor, not her dad. But he never started about it again, he took the blame. Maybe because he didn't feel deserving of anything else?
Don't ask my why I had to think of it now but it just came to my mind.

mycreativityuppedandleft

If they completely shut down the related aspect then I probably wouldn't mind if that's where they wanted to go with it. But they still tease

You could be onto something there...but as we have seen with Red it could also be a million other reasons.

Miranda

You are really making me think with this theory if I can call it that way. I think Liz read him so well and maybe he does feel that he is not deserving. Maybe at that moment he didn't want to fight here on the fact that she still blames him for Sam's death. I think he values Liz her life more than his own and maybe that why he keeping all those secrets for her about her past.

Lauren Helen Graham

But this wasn't meant about Sam at all... I think Sam is a different story, I really meant her biological father. It didn't happen the way as Lizzie believes to remember it, I'm sure of that. Why else bring up that Dr. at the end again telling her that the roles might have been different. He did never again talk to her about that, try to clarify it... He did simply nothing besides avoiding that topic and trying to get her trust back with doing other things (like buying that apartment or confronting her with her Feelings about him) I think he didn't because he doesn't want to tell her the truth because it's too dangerous for her to know and on the other side because it would redeem him a little bit which he doesn't feel he deserves.

One Thing Remains

I am so glad that Red is doing everything he can to save Liz from jail. I just hope he takes Dembe's advice and tells her about Tom and everything else. Dembe is right - she deserves to know and Red should tell her.

I can understand why Red doesn't want to tell her. I mean it seems like they just got back to a good place and this would definitely ruin that, but it's not fair to Liz to keep so much stuff from her.

Lauren Helen Graham

But Dembe seems to be thinking that if Red tells her everything it might not go down the bad road but that she somehow might understand... I can see this being really complex.

Why do I have the feeling it is not only because of Lizzie that he won't tell her but because of himself as well... Maybe he isn't ready to open up about what had happened in the past because it was that bad for himself that he simply tries to forget, that he simply doesn't want to relive all of it again? I think there are always two sides. Or course his relationship and where they stand right now for sure is a reason as well for him not telling her. He's afraid that she might never forgive him if she knew the truth. But somehow I feel that Dembe indicated with advicing Red to tell her everything that Red wasn't ready to talk to anybody about it. Besides Dembe maybe...

TeamWilson

That moment with Dembe was SO good

I think probably one of the biggest secrets Red has from Liz right now is Tom. If he tells her he (intentionally or not) put Tom into Liz's life, it would just destroy her.

I'm a little thrown by that whole Tom/Major/Berlin/Red storyline... I'm kinda thinking/hoping that Red hired Tom (through The Major) to maybe keep an eye on Lizzie (from a distance though, not infiltrate her life as a potential husband) and then Berlin found out and who Liz was and that Red already had a man "on the inside" and used his money and power to flip Tom's role into a personal relationship with Liz in order to gain intel on her and Reddington and eventually flush out Reddington.

Though, I'm not sure why once Red found out what Tom was doing he wouldn't just kill him or something... He's certainly killed people for less, lol. Unless it was because he knew it would hurt her (because at this point she still thinks he's Mr. Perfect) so he wanted to wait until he was in a position to be there for her when her world came crashing down. Knowing how sick Sam was that he wouldn't likely be in the picture for much longer and without Tom and Sam she'd have no one, which caused his long-game plan to thrust into action so that he could slowly build her trust etc. to be there for her when this all went down, which is why he surrendered to the FBI when he did.

Or, it could be none of these reasons....

DAMN THIS SHOW!

ChellyChelle

Oh I totally get the feeling that Red is holding back telling her everything because he doesn't want to open up old wounds about himself as well.
Red wasn't always like the way he is now. So who knows what really went down in the past. As they've always said, he simply left his good life one day and turned up 4 years later as a criminal. Something triggered it.

I want to believe that Red had good intentions with hiring Tom to be a part of Liz's life (in whatever aspect that was). I personally don't think he hired Tom to marry her. Maybe just keep an eye out for her or something. But I could totally see Berlin orchestrating a marriage between Tom and Liz to make sure he knew what she was up to 24/7.

At least that's what I want to believe...

atyleung81

Hi everyone,,

Actually, Red hasn't said exactly what he hired Tom for. All the implications point to Liz, but all we know for sure is that Tom turned on him and went to work for Berlin, who ultimately put Tom in Liz's life.

Whatever the truth is, I hope Liz hears it all from Red first. It might be easier for her to take if she sees that Red is deciding to be completely honest with her.

Lauren Helen Graham

Yeah, I'm still positive that it wasn't Red who put Tom into her life... I somehow still think he was supposed to watch her from afar until Berlin came forward. Maybe Red didn't know who the Major had chosen to do that job? Maybe Red has only always operated with the Major and the Major doesn't let his clients know who he chose. This would mean Red really got suspicious when Tom entered her life (when he might already have been working for Berlin) and when he got the passports he knew something was wrong... That's what he told Lizzie, that Tom got the passports and that's when he knew he wasn't who he was supposed to be

Randi, this would make sense, right? It would explain why Red didn't kill him right away. He might have thought Tom really loved Lizzie and it was her chance to be happy.

Chelly great to hear that you as well can see Red holding back because of him not being ready to open up completely... Maybe he's afraid that he'll for the first time in years, maybe decades, would be extremely vulnerable to her. She told him so in the car... That he can't be vulnerable for a second.