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Old 01-22-2017, 03:32 AM
  #31
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Come on, Liz knows that she is the center of Red's universe. She may act dumb, but she is not dumb. Even a blind person can see that Liz is the center of Red's universe. That his entire life is about her. So she sees that too, she just doesn't want to feed more into Red if that makes any sense..
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:18 AM
  #32
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Miranda, has a point here... She must know, right? But who knows, maybe she takes it in a negative way. He only sees him as the person that destroyed her whole life, who brought only misery to her. I wouldn't call this the center of his universe. I'm not sure she's feeling that way in the positive sense like Emma meant it. You know what I mean? Do I still make sense?

But she isn't thinking clearly anymore as well and she's in denial about what she's done and somehow judges Red although she doesn't know the whole truth, is blind to the whole picture... And that's what makes me soooo angry! It's like she's judging the book by its first page.
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Old 01-22-2017, 01:51 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post)
Heck Liz is a profiler. She should know that she IS the center of his universe.
You would think she should know that. But because she is being a suspicious little brat, she's gonna listen to others opinions about Red rather than go on her own experiences, and the numerous times Red had SAVED her bacon!
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Old 01-22-2017, 04:54 PM
  #34
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You would think she should know that. But because she is being a suspicious little brat, she's gonna listen to others opinions about Red rather than go on her own experiences, and the numerous times Red had SAVED her bacon!
That's what I'm saying.
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:11 PM
  #35
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Liz is an idiot sometimes....
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Old 01-23-2017, 10:36 AM
  #36
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Miranda, has a point here... She must know, right? But who knows, maybe she takes it in a negative way. He only sees him as the person that destroyed her whole life, who brought only misery to her. I wouldn't call this the center of his universe. I'm not sure she's feeling that way in the positive sense like Emma meant it. You know what I mean? Do I still make sense?
I think you are making sense. She does probably see it in a negative way and not in the postive way she should see it. I get why she sees it in this negative way cause he has brought more misery to her than postive things but it isn't all bad. So I still think that she knows it and has to see it.
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Old 01-23-2017, 12:36 PM
  #37
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Miranda, do you really think that he has brought more misery to her life than positive things? I really have never thought about it and I would have to think about it some more. But this question I think we'd need to know everything, the whole past as well. What if she, her parents, have brought all this misery to Red and left him with no other choice than what he did? I'm really not sure if they are not equally at fault here and that there lives are so intertwined that it's hard to say where the lines are.

Back to Red, do you think he could in any circumstances tell Liz the truth about the time when he thought her dead? I'm really wondering since this discussion kind of was started in the episode discussion thread.
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Old 01-23-2017, 01:05 PM
  #38
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It probably wouldn't happen but I would love to see her keep pushing him saying he doesn't care or everything's he fault until she just pushes him too far and he winds up yelling at her about how much he does care.
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Old 01-23-2017, 02:36 PM
  #39
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IF.... and I stress IF, Red had a moment of weakness (cause let's face it, Red is not a man who would admit to anything that pertained to his true emotional state. The man has far too many masks he wears for the world), and he confessed to Liz how hopeless he felt when he thought her dead, Liz probably wouldn't believe it. As we've seen lately, she hardly believes anything he says.

But this is just me.
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Old 01-23-2017, 04:24 PM
  #40
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You just ruined my dream.

Yeah, I'm just so discouraged by Liz. I wonder if here is anyway Red could tell her that she might believe.
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Old 01-23-2017, 06:07 PM
  #41
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Liz does not offer a lot to be hopeful for at the moment.
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:47 AM
  #42
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I go back to Aram or Dembe being the ones who Liz would believe. They saw first hand and know how hard it was for Red. But Liz doesn't want to know. She doesn't see anything he does as justified or that he can make up for what has happened. At least now she doesn't. If that can change I don't know or what would change her mind.
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:56 AM
  #43
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Miranda, do you really think that he has brought more misery to her life than positive things? I really have never thought about it and I would have to think about it some more. But this question I think we'd need to know everything, the whole past as well. What if she, her parents, have brought all this misery to Red and left him with no other choice than what he did? I'm really not sure if they are not equally at fault here and that there lives are so intertwined that it's hard to say where the lines are.

Back to Red, do you think he could in any circumstances tell Liz the truth about the time when he thought her dead? I'm really wondering since this discussion kind of was started in the episode discussion thread.
When you only look at the facts and don't think about our feelings then yes, I sadly have to say that he has brought more misery to her then postive things. If Red wouldn't have come into her life she still would be happily married (okay she wouldn't have known who Tom really was) and don't forget that Red planted Tom in her life and so on and so on. I don't know if she and/or her parents brought misery to Red.

I don't think that Red will ever tell Liz about how he felt when she was dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChakotaysLover (View Post)
IF.... and I stress IF, Red had a moment of weakness (cause let's face it, Red is not a man who would admit to anything that pertained to his true emotional state. The man has far too many masks he wears for the world), and he confessed to Liz how hopeless he felt when he thought her dead, Liz probably wouldn't believe it. As we've seen lately, she hardly believes anything he says.

But this is just me.
I think you are right about that. I am afraid that Liz won't believe Red either.
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Old 01-24-2017, 12:13 PM
  #44
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I go back to Aram or Dembe being the ones who Liz would believe. They saw first hand and know how hard it was for Red. But Liz doesn't want to know. She doesn't see anything he does as justified or that he can make up for what has happened. At least now she doesn't. If that can change I don't know or what would change her mind.
Yeah we've already had Dembe say something. Now if Aram would say something. He has two incidents he could discuss. The one where Red talks about collapsing in a heap of rubble and then finding him at Doms.

I would have said Cooper might be able to talk to her but now he's back to blaming Red.

Katarina, I think, brought a lot of misery to Red. I think she's the one who used him and got him in all this mess. Although I would like to know more about their back story to be sure but that's how I feel now.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:04 PM
  #45
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I think you are right about that. I am afraid that Liz won't believe Red either.
For all the talking Red does, he doesn't say anything meaningful, he doesn't tell Liz what he really needs to hear. He tells stories. Granted they are great stories about hi adventures out and about through the world of depravity and corruption... Liz doesn't need to hear that, nor does she want to. She wants Red to fill in the missing fragments of her past.
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