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Old 04-02-2017, 12:20 PM
  #31
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The problem just is, she never asked him that specifically because every time something else happens to her she's running to him.
She did tell this to him many times. But Red always did find (or made) the situation she'll need his help to save someone innocent or something like this.
He manipulate Liz trough her wish to help people - to keep her close to himself.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:11 PM
  #32
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I do think Red is very good at distracting Liz, usually with a case.

I can't wait for the reveal though. After this discussion, I think it'd be a let down if Kaplan isn't somehow involved.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:40 PM
  #33
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Me too. If Kaplan isn't evil now I'm going to be upset.

Btw other people have thought that Kaplan started changing after her cleaners were murdered. I never thought that but I'm starting to change my mind.
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:59 PM
  #34
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I think she was very shook after the death of her cleaners. They were HER people and I think she started believing that Red couldn't protect his people anymore... Which eventually lead to the who disappearing Liz act.

It seemed like she stopped trusting him as much... Her belief in him wavered enough... Before that incident I think Kaplan would have (and did) down ANYTHING for Red.
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Old 04-03-2017, 02:51 AM
  #35
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She did tell this to him many times. But Red always did find (or made) the situation she'll need his help to save someone innocent or something like this.
He manipulate Liz trough her wish to help people - to keep her close to himself.
I don't know how much I agree with this.
I love that part of their relationship where Red saves Liz. Not because I love seeing a damsel in distress But because I have a thing for protective men.

Some of my favorite moments for Red & Liz include when he saved her from the Stewmaker and a scene in the car when he told her he'd do whatever he felt necessary to make sure she'd be alive.
I love things like that

But I also found myself asking at times that if Red hadn't showed up in the first place, Liz wouldn't be in those situations. She wouldn't need the saving.
And I'm sure Liz felt like that as well ?

By not having Red in her life any more she would no longer need saving. She would no longer be in those situations.
And so I can get behind the line of thinking for Liz.
I want to believe that she has grown fond of Red in a way, loves him in some way even. But that she chose to try and eliminate the thread to her life / her family's life.

And Kaplan tried to help her with that. And I get that. And I can get behind that. So i don't think I could hate Kaplan for it or 'blame' her for it.

Btw, I'm only highlighting one side of the story here, I can see the other side as well

Red was deeply hurt by Liz's death. And to find out it was a betrayal by Kaplan, one of his most trusted people (dare I say friend? ) must've hurt big time.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:49 AM
  #36
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Agree with a lot of what you said Paula. But Red showed up because of the danger Tom presented to Liz. I know he put Tom there but when Tom betrayed him, he had a problem. So he had to show up.

Of course once tom is taken care of, the logical thing was for him to leave, but if he did, there would be no show. So he stayed I think because he and Luz were drawn to each other and both needed answers.

As for Liz I know Ared brought danger to her but she chose to be an FBI agent. She was always going to be in danger because of her job. And probably just as much as what Red brought.

I've got to admit with Kaplan, I spent the end of last season hoping Kaplan really didn't help Liz. I was hoping Nik and Kirk (maybeTom) were working together.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:21 AM
  #37
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Btw other people have thought that Kaplan started changing after her cleaners were murdered. I never thought that but I'm starting to change my mind.
I don't think so. That scene when she and Rad talking about this is one of the most warming moment as she support him.
Her people were dead. She can be dead instead one of these girls. But she'd pretend like it's only a normal buisiness problem. She was so callous and almost unemotional (but she can hardly sitting calm and trying to leave Red as fast as she can in this situation).
No, in this episode she was absolutely caring on Red.
She'd try to make it easy for him. As always (except the episodes before Red shoot her).
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:51 AM
  #38
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See, I totally forgot that Marilyn
That Red was the one who brought Tom to Liz
But even then, we can definitely argue that Liz would've been in danger no matter what But my point was that emotionally; Liz will / could've felt that her life only got messed up after Red came into her life. So even though you could reason with it, emotions and rationale are two different beasts.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:22 AM
  #39
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I can agree Paula. She totally blames Red for everything that has gone wrong for her. But I'll go a step further and say it's almost like she doesn't see herself as having contributed. In S1 red is fixing to leave because she asks him too. She decides to go to him and stop him. She could've let him go.
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:03 AM
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But my point was that emotionally; Liz will / could've felt that her life only got messed up after Red came into her life. So even though you could reason with it, emotions and rationale are two different beasts.
And when you have a child involved, more emotions.
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:05 AM
  #41
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I can't wait for the reveal though. After this discussion, I think it'd be a let down if Kaplan isn't somehow involved.
Me either. We are all so convinced that Kaplan is behind it that she has to be!

I really wonder what Red is going to do when he finds out Kaplan is behind it. (if she is of course). Is he going to try to kill her again or is he going to talk to her to figure out why she did this?
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:58 PM
  #42
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Oh man, I would be so disappointed if she wouldn't be involved in any of it at all It's really strange how speculating makes you want something to happen in the end and how this alone can really ruin storylines for you or at least has the potential to do Hopefully, we'll see her again.

But yeah, I want her as a big bad if she should return. Do you recall us speculating it right after the mid-season finale. That would be stunning

I'm really wondering what her reasons would be if she really is behind it. We know very well what Red will do. The question is how will the rest of the task force react and which side will they be on
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:01 PM
  #43
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Yeah we were speculating and I was mad that she wasnt dead. Lol!

Yeah Red will kill her again and that just seems so outlandish to me. That's why I wanted her dead.
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:01 PM
  #44
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That's true... I was mad that she wasn't dead as well. And then all of you thought this guy was so evil I will never forget that.

Outlandish? Is that a word? I have never head it before But yeah, it feels that way or it will shall it happen. Man, how crazy is that?
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:39 PM
  #45
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It is a word.
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