nsuzd

So - how did he become Red's trusted associate? He must have a long dark story...
I don't say he is unloyal. But this can be Marvin.

Fangirl49

Oh great point. I would love to know how he and Red knew each other and how he became Red's lawyer. There's a good back story there. I think he even knew about Red's plan to turn himself into the FBI because when he meets Liz he says something about finally meeting the one that caused Red to give up his life.

Miranda

We also thought that Kaplan was a trusted associate. Did we turn out to be wrong. But I really don't think it's Marvin either. I am sure he is soaking up the sun on that island he is at.

I totally agree with you. Red doesn't say anything that he doesn't have too. And I think it's good he only tells people what they need to know and nothing more. Brings me back to who the hell did this to him?

I think that Marvin definitly knew that Red was going to surrender to the FBI. He knew exactly what to do for Red when Red had Marvin come to the diner in the Marvin Gerard episode. And I would love to know how they met each other. I am sure it's an interesting story.

HeySoos

What if the person in the truck was a stranger and Kaplan went off on her own. She more than likely had money in different accounts under different names. She has healed herself is hiding, but sees the news. She knows the people who work for and with Red so seeing them killed or taken down she would know if something reported isn't what it seems. Ha sound familiar? Anyway could this be where she comes out of nowhere to help or save Red? Sorry another theory to throw on the pile. Lol.

Fangirl49

Are you referring to fake news which is the only news America gets anymore.

HeySoos

I knew you would get it.

Lauren Helen Graham

Not everybody that's an associate of Red's has a long dark past... Why would they? He kidnapped his son because he was trying to protect him from his wife. And he could have been Red's attorney or something Who knows? Maybe he believed in Red's innocence or something.
I'm sure that Marvin isn't the one, he wouldn't betray Red! NEVER!

Don't feel alone We'll see how it all goes and I'm sure at some point I'll have made up my mind

I really don't understand why you guys don't see the difference. Kaplan might have betrayed him but she did it to protect Liz and Agnes and Red... She meant good with it, not to harm Red. But now, that's different. There's somebody working against him that really wants to bring him down, that wants to see him dead. It's not Marvin for sure... It would be a totally different kind of betrayal, one that meant harm in all its way.

Wow, great theory, Susana It actually would make sense... But about the fake news hint in it.

Fangirl49

Yeah Kris she meant good with her first betrayal so would she really have gone so far as to betray him now? Plus it could put Liz the n danger if Red weren't there unless she thinks she could protect her.

I don't know I guess Kaplan could be mad enough to do it.

HeySoos

Great point Kris. Whoever is behind this wants to take Red down permanently. This is driving me crazy. And there is enough crazy swirling around these days. I hope this is partly if not fully resolved before the 8 WEEK break. Redemption better entertain me in the mean time.

Fangirl49

I think this is going to build until the end of the season. We just have to hang on for the ride

HeySoos

Maybe there will be clues that lead back to Red's betrayer. They will be hired to go after criminals too. Only not just by the US government.

Fangirl49

Agreed and we will have to work to figure it out. I do hope it's someone we know. I just can't figure out who. I am actually thinks of going back through all the characters and trying to figure out someone who could do this. Someone like Leonard Caul for example. But I don't think it was him. If Fitch were only alive for us to blame.

What if it was Naomi?

HeySoos

I went over a list recently but none seemed to jump out at me as capable or in a position to pul off bringing Red down. I did just find something interesting about Fitch. It says in a conversation with Red before he was killed, Fitch suggested the Cabal had something planned for 2017. That was season 2. Did Red ever figure out the location of the safe with the files Fitch told him about? I can't remember. I think I will go back to season two. Maybe this weekend.

Miranda

I definitly do see the difference but that doesn't mean that it justifies what Kaplan did. Not to me. It's not Marvin I am sure, cause Red has always helped him and he's helped Red in anyway he can. I agree with you that this time somebody wants to bring down Red until he has nothing or no one left. If only we knew who it is..

I don't think it's Naomi, Marilyn. She's made it very clear that she doesn't want to have anything to do with Red anymore

Fangirl49

Yeah Susana I think he found the safe and the files. Oh yeah. He took Glen with him. The found them.