[Jenny Heartland]

Such great insights here as to various aspects of the show! I too was so proud of Cooper for telling the truth about the existence of the immunity agreement, especially after Liz tried to talk him out of it. (I'm so done with her right now) Anyway, and I too believe strongly that it was Liz who told the prosecutors about the gun...and here he was about to walk when the gun was brought up...so maddening!

Also, toward the end when Dembe went to see Stark, it was under the guise of Red being concerned about the investment he had made to Stark's research, but then the end of the conversation was a little bit ominous. Does anyone think that maybe there's something wrong with Red and that Stark has also been working on a cure for it, and that could be why Red invested heavily into his work and why he sent Dembe on that mission and instructed that it not be recorded?

Also, a friend and I were talking this evening and she brought up a very interesting theory, I'll tell you now and would be anxious to hear what anyone might think. She remembers seeing Red in one episode with his shirt off and his back to the camera and she remembered seeing something on his back, like a scar from a bullet...and remember Liz saying she shot her actual father in the back? Well, my friend's theory is that Reddington really IS her actual father and since Stark is a doctor familiar with DNA and genes and stuff like that, that maybe he manipulated the results from the DNA test on the bag of bones that got destroyed. And so now Liz and all of us believe that Liz's real father IS dead and was the person represented by that bag of bones.

I'm not sure what the reason would be but knowing the writers of this show, they could have a real doozy of a reason for us all some day. Okay, that theory is a little far fetched, but I find it hard to dismiss pretty much ANY theory, even a weird one! I mean maybe Reddington had an affair with Liz's mother that resulted in Liz and then the mother married someone else who led Liz to believe he was her actual father. And then the night of the fire, Reddington was in the house and with Liz's fuzzy memory, maybe she shot him thinking it was the other guy, the one she believed was her father. Okay, I think I'll stop with this theory for now but hey, even though it sounds a little outlandish, other things they've come up with in this show have also been pretty out there as well.

I hope Red gets out of prison soon but I have a feeling he's going to be making deals with some of the inmates there to save his own skin but also to form relationships that he can use in the future. LOVE this show and can't wait for the next one...always full of surprises. But again, I do have a feeling Red and Dembe know Liz is the betrayer, so it's going to get really, really interesting if and when he confronts her.

Jenny

[Lauren Helen Graham]

crazy_diamond, that is kind of embarrassing but I have to ask you again for your name. I really don't recall. I'm sorry.

D- I wonder if Red/Dembe are playing Liz as they already know ?

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for the whole time... Because Red can't be so naive and not have noticed how odd Liz behaves after all that has happened.

Miranda, true... How would Red know about Samar's odd behavior. Maybe because Dembe experienced it and he told him?

I'm glad we all seem to agree on Liz being the one giving away the gun to the prosecutor. It's unbelievable. I really hope she'll suffer for it at some point.

Jenny, I'm not sure if what Red wants really is for Red in the end or somebody else. Who knows, maybe he needs something from someone we haven't met yet, that is sick and it would be a trade? I even considered Kirk at some point because we still don't know what Red whispered into his ear. Maybe it had something to do with him being able to get a cure for him?

Also, a friend and I were talking this evening and she brought up a very interesting theory, I'll tell you now and would be anxious to hear what anyone might think. She remembers seeing Red in one episode with his shirt off and his back to the camera and she remembered seeing something on his back, like a scar from a bullet...and remember Liz saying she shot her actual father in the back? Well, my friend's theory is that Reddington really IS her actual father and since Stark is a doctor familiar with DNA and genes and stuff like that, that maybe he manipulated the results from the DNA test on the bag of bones that got destroyed. And so now Liz and all of us believe that Liz's real father IS dead and was the person represented by that bag of bones.

It's a nice idea but I really don't believe that. I believe that our Red isn't her father but the real Raymond Reddington was and it was his bones in the suitcase.

[crazy_diamond]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) crazy_diamond, that is kind of embarrassing but I have to ask you again for your name. I really don't recall. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for the whole time... Because Red can't be so naive and not have noticed how odd Liz behaves after all that has happened.

Exactly, I mean if us the audience are seeing it, surely Red must do as well. It's going to be a bit confusing though, Red thought it was playing Liz and then Liz playing Red and now back to Red playing Liz

it's ok , it's Tracey

Also another thing that is bothering me, why hasn't Liz mentioned her daughter at any time...it's like she has forgotten her

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Tracey it is Thanks so much and I'm really sorry again. Won't happen again

Exactly, when even we are seeing it, why should he not. He knows her so well and he is one of the best when it comes to reading people. He must know. Everything else would be pure crap.

The daughter... Poor little Agnes, don't get me started there. I'm so disappointed in that storyline. I was one of the people who didn't want a child to be written into that show at all but they made the decision to now sideline her and not even have her being mentioned again I don't believe that a mother would be capable of that just because she lost her husband and wants answers about her past

[crazy_diamond]

It's ok

I'm going with Red knowing about Liz, otherwise it was be just weird..

about Agnes, you would think her being a mother would be the most important thing, or one of the most important things in her life. I wasn't a fan of the storyline too. You would think even a mention of her name every eppy, but nothing!

I thinking I wonder if Dembe sort of knows as well, aww poor Dembe, what's he going to do now without his best friend...

[Fangirl49]

Jenny there are no crazy theories!!! I've had some real doozies! I've kind of thought something like what you said might be true. That the man Liz killed had stolen our Reds identity first. But who knows. But I in no way believe our Red is Lizs father. He's told her too many times that he's not.

I can deal with us seeing Red not Being 100 percent sure liz behind this. But he at least needs to be 95 percent sure. Kind of like with Dembe and the poison. All the facts pointed to Dembe but Red wanted to be sure.

But if they have him be totally shocked and surprised that it's Liz, then I will be upset. It's not like he has a million people who are close enough to betray him this way. IMO, he has 5 choices. Liz Samar Aram Ressler and Cooper. That's it.

[Wes&FredFan]

I guess little Agnes will be the "forgotten child" ... the plotpoint that many (including myself) believed never should have been put on to the show, and the writers regret it so it will not be brought up again . As many other shows have done when they've had a creative booboo.

[Jenny Heartland]

About Agnes...yes, I agree she sure has been a real after thought! No mention of her whatsoever and if the writers did ever work her back into the show, I'd think they'd have to also work Tom's mother back into at least the one scene where they're reunited. I agree that Agnes will likely not be coming back into the storyline...and if they ever refer to her at all, it might be they'll say she got sick and is no longer with us (I know...a horrible thought!) Better to just not ever mention her again at all. Also with Liz's career that includes being gone a lot to faraway destinations in the world, I agree it wasn't a very practical story line to include a mother/baby relationship in the show.

I can hardly wait to see how this current situation plays out. As usual, Red is going to have to rely on his wits while in prison dealing with the other inmates. I'm actually hoping they have just one or two more episodes that include the courtroom and the prison...he just HAS to get out of this situation somehow, and then they can get back to Red and Dembe playing Liz! Cuz yep, they just have to know it was Liz who betrayed him...like you guys said, Red is way too savvy not to have picked up on that fact.

So any way you look at it, it appears I'm in fairly solid agreement with everyone else's take on the situation, at least for the most part!

Jenny

[crazy_diamond]

Originally Posted by Wes&FredFan (View Post) I guess little Agnes will be the "forgotten child" ... the plotpoint that many (including myself) believed never should have been put on to the show, and the writers regret it so it will not be brought up again . As many other shows have done when they've had a creative booboo.

It does seem that way D

[Fangirl49]

Hey Jenny. I agree and I can't believe I am. But I want more court room scenes as well. They were spectacular. And yes some time in prison as well. I'm very curious about that.

At first I thought this storyline of Red being in prison is something I would hate. I thought they needed him out asap

Can't stand Lizs role in this but I do want to see Red deal with prison life

[Jenny Heartland]

FanGirl (I hope it's ok that I call you that...I don't know your name)...but yeah, I guess I can see why it would be interesting to see how Red does in prison. He for sure will have to call upon his clever mind and use his wits or he would end up as toast. But I think we've all seen he's very capable of using his intelligence so it'll be interesting to see how he wangles deals with the inmates to keep himself safe in there.

And yes, the court room scene really was pretty great. Seeing Red come up with his arguments that actually ended up persuading that judge. And then seeing Cooper wanting to do nothing but tell the truth but then they asked him the ultimate question, asking him if he knew of any crimes that Red had committed (which would automatically nullify the immunity agreement if his answer was yes). There was that long pause and I thought how in the world can he still be truthful when he KNOWS Red has committed many crimes. Then his brilliant answer came: I have no direct knowledge of any crimes. Wow, I breathed a sigh of relief big time!

I guess my only reservation with Red being in prison and also having to go through more court room scenes is that it makes me nervous...I basically want him OUT of there and back on the road again so I can relax again! Ha!

Jenny




I AM SO SORRY...I HAVE DOUBLE POSTED AGAIN! I was trying to figure out how to ADD a QUOTE from FanGirl to my post but somehow managed to duplicate a previous message. I AM SO SORRY. If someone can please delete the double post I would very much appreciate it. I have a lot to learn here...I'll keep trying to do better! But the quote I wanted to include was the one where FanGirl said the Red would surely figure out who betrayed him because it could be only one of 5 people. And my comment to that would be this: As he and Dembe were headed to that bar for drinks before he was apprehended by that police officer, there were these people who KNEW where he was headed: Red, Dembe, Liz and that guy who disconnected the bomb. So out of those folks, only Liz would be the logical one who would tell the police where he was headed. Anyway, that's all I wanted to add. And again, I'm so sorry for duplicating one of my previous posts below. HOW DO I DO IT, I JUST HAVE A GIFT APPARENTLY!

Jenny

[Miranda]

No worries Jenny. I merged your posts together. If you have anything questions whatsoever please don't hesitate to ask Kris or me. We would love to help you and you will get it down soon enough how everything works.

It was definitly Liz who tipped off the police that Red was going to be at that restaurant/ food stand. They way that cop approached him was so strange. So yes Liz was the only person who gave up Red too the cops. I bet she thought it would buy her time so she couldn't figure out who he really is. What she forgets is that even when Red is in prison. He is still a powerful person.

[Ceta_Cea]

I think it was Jennifer who tipped the prosecutor off.

My theory is that Red and the whole task force are working together, probably to find out what Jennifer is up to.

[Fangirl49]

Hey Jenny. My names Marilyn

You are right. Liz was the only person who knew exactly where Red was going. If that didn't give him a big obvious clue, I don't know what would.

I rewatched last night and I noticed at that last court room scene, Cooper tells Red Liz is on her way to hear the verdict. But she never arrives. It's obvious she was delayed because she was tipping the prosecutor. And I wonder if she was even switching the guns. Because Red and Dembe seemed surprised about the gun. I'm thinking the serial numbers being scraped off made it a federal offense. If it had serial numbers on it, it would have been a state offense. I think Liz swapped the gun to a gun that would keep Red in that courtroom.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Originally Posted by Ceta_Cea (View Post) I think it was Jennifer who tipped the prosecutor off. My theory is that Red and the whole task force are working together, probably to find out what Jennifer is up to.

That's a pretty cool theory that I've never heard before And one that I never thought about. Although I think that's not what's happening it would be fantastic

Jenny, pretty good point you have about only Red, Dembe, Liz and that guy (Maxwell) knowing where Dembe and Red were heading. That's true.

And Jenny, FanGirl's name is Marilyn So you can call her that if you want to.

Besides, it's awesome we're all on the same page here... Regarding what's going on and what our opinion and feelings are. Believe me, it makes me super nervous to know he's in prison and could maybe facing a really bad trial there and really bad consequences for the last 30 years. I want to see him out of it, too. But until he will get out (and I'm really positive he will at some point) I'll enjoy the road.

I guess little Agnes will be the "forgotten child" ... the plotpoint that many (including myself) believed never should have been put on to the show, and the writers regret it so it will not be brought up again . As many other shows have done when they've had a creative booboo.

Oh Donna, so true... That's what I fear as well

I'm going with Red knowing about Liz, otherwise it was be just weird..

Me, too Everything else simply wouldn't make any sense.