[Lauren Helen Graham]

Originally Posted by Wild Pikachu (View Post) I can see that perspective... One of the things that bugged me most about Liz in this episode, even though maybe it shouldn't, is that she made a deal with Sutton Ross to get at Fake Red's secret, and then didn't seem to particularly care that he ended up dead for it. (That may not actually be true, since they didn't show her reaction one way or another, but it didn't seem to be on her mind at all.) Of course, as you pointed out, she's had a history for a while now of not really caring about collateral damage. PS: I am so not going for the whole sex-change operation thing. That would be just too silly for me.

True... That's something I didn't realize. That she made a deal with Sutton Ross, that he told her and that in the end he died for her and she didn't care. I'm wondering if she is capable to care about anybody anymore... You know, to some degree I really can't blame her. She lost almost everything in such a short time and I can see that she might have isolated herself, her feeling to some degree. But if that is the truth, she needs to get help. It's really unhealthy what she's doing there.

And yes, the sex-change theory is too silly for me, too

Miranda, I really hate Liz. I can really say that. For me, this character doesn't exist anymore.

[Ozi]

Hello everyone,
I just watched 22 episode, and I am very disapointed, my first idea was to check what other thinks about that episode, and I am so glad that you're thinking similar.

(Ok there are some people that accept episode but I am focusing
on people who thinks like me)

So I would like to share my feelings, I hope that our voice will be heared by screenwriter.
So
- Blacklist WAS one of the best series which I watched
- For me it does not matter who is man which we knew as Reymond Reddington, I do not care why he played Reymond ... for me he will be still Red
- Red should know that Liz apology wasn't sincere and convincing
- That Red is not Elizabeths father, and what? He was trying to protect her
every time he was able so he was on her side, he let go man with bag to come back to Elizabeths car so why she betreyed him?
- What about Elizabeth, ok, she wanna know the truth so she lied him, but she shouldn't want to ruin his life now?
- Whole story was about Reymonds and Elizabeths cooperation and Reymond's goals which he obtained and now what? We will focus on Elizabeth goals now?
- In previous episode they told us that will be race for a bag and there will be competition, so that shouldn't be so easy for Liz
- Why Red didn't want to gave Liz falcrum which would give back her memories? (I am not sure am i right now)


I understand that people have a great deal, but for the director and screenwriter
they should know that is a time to end that season ...
Samar is going back to life, Red is killing last man who (for now) can tell his secret, FBI with Dembe cames and helps to survive.
Wanna make another season? Try to make that secret longer ... for me that whole story doesn't have sense now.

Someone wrote that he will stop watching Blacklist, I am mad to but I will check what they prepare for us, I don't think that will satisfy me, but it's Blacklist, who knows

Oh and last thing, so now Liz will be trying to destroy fake Red, and when she will focus on her baby? Bag with bones of real Raymend Reddington? That Red isn't Liz father? Oh it's not so spectacular finish to end season which force me to be impatiend to watch next episode...



"Be careful, Lizzie. Because the truth of it is once you start down this road, there's no logical place to stop. You could see to her education, health insurance, housing. You can watch her. Or have her watched. Keep her safe. Try to ascertain her... hopes, dreams, desires. Pull strings, call in favors to discreetly smooth the path. And, for the first few years, it may work. You'll draw some measure of virtue from being her invisible benefactor. But, that won't last. It's all a fraud. That it's really not about her at all. That it's all about you. And you're just... going through the motions to salve your own guilt. But, all the money, all the time and effort, all the favors in the world cannot possibly equal what you took away from her. Everything else is... just a nice gesture."

[Fangirl49]

Ozi so glad you posted!

I agree with most of your points. Most importantly one I hadn't thought about. How on earth could Red believe that Liz changed her mind about knowing the id of the bones. Normal lizzie would still be tied up threatening him to tell her whose bones they are. She would never apologize. Maybe he did realize then that she was playing him but he still needed to get her out of there. He wanted to protect her. If he didn't realize, then yeah, that is not like him at all. You've given me a point to think about. I hope he knows she played him.

Also he knew Sutton was bluffing at the door when Aram gave the code. He should have wondered then.

I love you posted the quote at the end of your post. That's my opinion of this story. That Red somehow caused whatever happened in the past to his family and Lizs. He blames himself and he is trying to atone for his mistakes as well as find answers.

[Ozi]

Good that someone made topic with quote survivor so I could use it without searching...
I had more thoughts about that episode but didn't want to make post to long

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) Maybe he did realize then that she was playing him but he still needed to get her out of there. He wanted to protect her. If he didn't realize, then yeah, that is not like him at all. You've given me a point to think about. I hope he knows she played him. Also he knew Sutton was bluffing at the door when Aram gave the code. He should have wondered then.

But try to look deeper,
1. I watched again fragment with apology and it's really not convincing...
2.

-So, why would Garvey give him the bag? - Because when Ross went AWOL, Garvey was the Marshal assigned to arrest him, and instead of bringing him in, Garvey ended up protecting him. little later - Ross wants blood.He thinks you ruined his life. I didn't give Sutton Ross bogus plans for the [CHUCKLES] Grayscape Seventeen. - But he thinks you did, and because of that, he wants to world to know what's inside the duffel.

And there I've got 2 dilemmas
- Everytime when Red wasn't guilty about something he was telling the truth to that person, why he didn't told Sutton that wasn't his fault with Grayscape?
- If that bag was so value (previous episode Red didn't knew why they didn't sold it) why Sutton just sayed Liz what's in that bag?
- If Red knew Sutton than he should be powerfull, where were his guards? Just few guys with weapons? If he had deal with Liz he should know Red will kill him after all. Why he made agreement with Liz? He was criminal, he should sold her secret or kill her after running from post office (And why Dembe was cooperating with FBI, why he didn't call for Red group? He just drove with Aram, so funny...)

There should be 2 more episodes to make it well or they really should end it like I wrote before

[Fangirl49]

You are right. The apology wasn't convincing at all. Come on Red. I need to know you saw through that.

I think Sutton felt like he owed it to Garvey to tell Jennifer Reds secret. I think that's why he put his revenge aside. Although I bet he didn't intend to get killled or for the FBI. to track him. I wonder just what Liz told him to make him cooperate. She had to make him think he could kill Red.


You make really great points about Sutton.

[Ozi]

I am watching that full episode again and I got something more.

Why they disappeared from investigation room, the FBI should knew that she had to sayed him how to escape, because he couldn't knew about ventilation...
"RESSLER: The demands were a ruse. They're in the plenum cavity."

Why Red and Liz was alone in garage and had time to talk? And the best of ...
Why Sutton bring bag to interrogate Red? He had Red, he had Liz and he had bag... wtf? That should be suspicious for Red

Why in last words of Mr Kaplan she named him Red? Not on real name if she would tell his real name before jumping then for me it could be have sense now...


Oh and you had good point about beign own to Garvey but... Garvey wanted to kill Red, bag wasn't important for him, look for scenes where there was shootout in bar

Ok now its all what I wanted to say

[Fangirl49]

Originally Posted by Ozi (View Post) He had Red, he had Liz and he had bag... wtf

Omg. That's so true. And honestly you just made me laugh out loud when you put it like that. Some of this we may just have to say it's how the writers wrote it.

But yeah Kaplan could have yelled on her way over the bridge...he's not the real Raymond! Haha. Although that would have messed up the bag drama.

My question is why didn't Red destroy the bones way back when if they contained that big of a secret. I think he planned to use them for something and now that plan is destroyed.

[Ozi]

No, i am not telling about yelling like "It's not his real naaaaaaa" and water
She sayed (they recalled us it in this episode)
"KAPLAN: I have it, Raymond. I went there and I dug it up, and I'm gonna give it to her."
why she sayed Raymond? it should be
I have it, (real name) ... that would be dignified like that series...

Other were to far to hear them... Yelling wasn't be in Kaplan style and yelling falling down wasn't in Blacklist style


What about bones,
1. I am not sure but Red probably didn't knew where Kaplan hide bones
2. He trusted Kaplans loyalty (dialog when he is telling that he couldn't check is she dead, it was to hard for him), so that bones were safe, so he hide them well for that moment

[Fangirl49]

I kinda like the idea of her yelling it as she went over the bridge. But I see what you mean now. Maybe it had been so long that she only saw him as Raymond, no matter his true identity. Or it could be his true first name.

[Ozi]

Yes, you've got right, maybe I'm just picking holes

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) Maybe it had been so long that she only saw him as Raymond, no matter his true identity.

[Miranda]

Originally Posted by Ozi (View Post) What about bones, 1. I am not sure but Red probably didn't knew where Kaplan hide bones 2. He trusted Kaplans loyalty (dialog when he is telling that he couldn't check is she dead, it was to hard for him), so that bones were safe, so he hide them well for that moment

He did know where she hid the bones cause he went to that place with Dembe to see if it was really true that she dug up the bones and when they got there they saw that Kaplan dug up the bones.

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) I kinda like the idea of her yelling it as she went over the bridge. But I see what you mean now. Maybe it had been so long that she only saw him as Raymond, no matter his true identity. Or it could be his true first name.

Yeah maybe she did. But I she did intend for Liz to discover the truth so she wanted to reveal his real identity..

[Ozi]

Originally Posted by Miranda (View Post) He did know where she hid the bones cause he went to that place with Dembe to see if it was really true that she dug up the bones and when they got there they saw that Kaplan dug up the bones.

Ok so sorry, I missed that fact, but now you reminded me that situation

[Miranda]

Originally Posted by Ozi (View Post) Ok so sorry, I missed that fact, but now you reminded me that situation

No need to be sorry. Can't keep track of everything. Especially when so many things happen.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

I really love the idea of Red having figured the bluff out... I was thinking about him telling Harold and Co. to stay down as well. He would have done everything for Liz, to save her. But there he told them that Ross wouldn't hurt her. How could he have been so sure?
And aside from that he knows her... And that alone should have been enough.

All the other things... Wow. Some of them really don't make sense. I definitely need a full speed re-watch tbh. I would watch it all with the knowledge that he is not Raymond Reddington. I bet it's such a pick! I guess I'll try to re-watch it all for me.

[Fangirl49]

I'd like to watch it again. I just can't rewatch Liz and the graveyard scene. I will probably never watch that again.