[Lauren Helen Graham]

Hey Amy Welcome back!

wow there's a lot of Liz hate going on here...... I honestly think that Red deserved EVERYTHING that was said to him and has ever been said to him by both Liz, Mr. Kaplan, and Dembe. When Red burned that envelope that was supposed to tell Liz the truth upon his death he lost me. He continues to lie to her all. the. time. And keep secrets from her. He deserves what he gets in my opinion.

Yes, from my POV there is a lot of Liz hate going on... She's just annoying and if I would want to see a character like hers I'd watch a soap opera. I just can't help it. She started out to be so amazing and changed so drastically in this woman that I don't have a little bit of respect for anymore. She is playing the angel here while she has done really horrible things, as has her boyfriend. I think they are all the same and still she wants to believe she's something better... She is/was not. Sadly. And if it wasn't for Red, she would have died when she was four years old.

I would believe that Mr. Kaplan would set it up, but how is my problem... In other shows they used tetrodotoxine as a way of you to fake die, because it makes your basically paralyzed or blocks your nerves, but you can't induce the antidote whenever you want... *THE THINGS YOU LEARN ON TV* But during the time I wrote this I remembred that Nik and Kaplan had a chat about the machines they needed to get to the ICU, maybe she said her plan to him then... Also the camera focused on Kaplan after she took Liz's body, also suspicious.

Here's some more to add on that suspicion:

Theory that Kaplan faked Liz's death A few are suggesting Kaplan faked Liz’s death and the look Kate gave Liz before zipping up the body bag made me wonder at the time, so I went back and rewatched some scenes. _____ When Red arrives at the makeshift OR: Kaplan to Dr. Nik: It’s a risk to all of us, but it’s possible, right? Red: What’s possible? Nik then diverts Red’s attention. _____ When Red chastised Dembe: Kaplan: Stop it Raymond… she’s been telling you for months that you’re a danger to her baby. This is on you, Raymond, nobody else. You were wrong to make her believe you could keep her safe. You made us all believe. Another clue that Kaplan is taking control. _____ After Liz demands that Red leave: Kaplan: Just wait out here. Let me talk to her. Kaplan then speaks to Liz who is alone with Tom. Did they make plans? _____ When Liz is having difficulty breathing: Liz: If things go sideways… A bit later when she’s holding Red’s hand: Liz: I’m scared for my little girl. Taking the risk to keep her daughter safe? _____ Body bag scene: Kaplan gives a long look and leaves with Liz’s body.

Source

LOL!!! That kid is going to disappear like that dog whatshisname... (presumed alive) I thought while watching the EP that he is going to be put up for adoption...

But Believer, it's a baby girl Not a he. But yes, I as well think that the baby will disappear from the show this season still... We'll see I guess. I at least can't see the girl staying.

[Fangirl49]

Last nights show I just can't get it out of my head. I really should be working and not thinking about the blacklist.

I can't decide if I think Liz is alive or not. I keep thinking about tom leaving the show and an article I read about possible crossovers between the two shows.

I believe he loves Lizzie I don't think he would leave her so when I look at it like that I decide she is dead

I try to think mr Kaplan faked the death and tom doesn't know either but if he does appear on the blAcklist how do you explain Liz being there.

I need it to be next week or maybe even the finale. I don't have patience for this

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Marilyn don't keep your head down. So far we don't even know if there'll be a spin-off and if Tom really will be gone. Besides, they didn't give an official statement on Megan's status on the show which is good, too. I recall how much she loved being on that show, how she fought for that role, she didn't leave Not with all the unsolved puzzles around her and Red. It won't happen, she isn't dead.

Besides, have you seen the promo for next week's episode? I'm sure that it'll be one of the best of the show so far, at least I'm positive because all the baby stuff, the Tom/Liz stuff, the Red/Liz stuff, everything is done for now. Maybe it's not too bad to not have her around for a while to sort things out with the show because what we had the last couple of weeks wasn't what I was looking forward to with the show.

[xlennie]

I just watched the episode. I will never recover.

[Miranda]

Originally Posted by xlennie (View Post) I just watched the episode. I will never recover.

Tell me something Heleen. I have been thinking about it since I saw it this afternoon and I am crying again now that I am posting here.

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) You won't believe it, but that was my favorite scene from the whole episode because it was one of the few that felt really honest and sincere!

I really liked that scene as well. Like you said it felt very sincere.

I was kind of surprised it was a baby girl I thought it would be a boy and he would be names Sam. So stupid But yes, not a big fan of the baby and I'm really wondering what will happen to the little one, especially should there be a spin-off. I'm still totally lost here... Would Tom take her with him? Will he give the baby up for adoption in the end? I'm really wondering.

I was surprised it was a girl as well. I thought it would be a boy too and that they would name him Sam! But you have to admit that Agnes is pretty cute. I think Tom is going to take care of her the best her knows how to. He will not give her up for adoption. It's the last thing he has from Liz. He will never give that up.

Originally Posted by believer14 (View Post) So, while I was watching the EP, I thought Nik is the real MVP, he saved Tom(or was that someone else?), Red and he is saving Liz now... well, Liz did die at the end, but her baby lived, sooo 3/4 not bad? But if its a fake death, then its 100%?

He was. The more I see Nik on the show, the more I like him. I was glad that he was there for her and not some strange doctor that she didn't know.

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) Here's some more to add on that suspicion: Source

That is a very well possible that it played out like that.

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) Last nights show I just can't get it out of my head. I really should be working and not thinking about the blacklist. I can't decide if I think Liz is alive or not. I keep thinking about tom leaving the show and an article I read about possible crossovers between the two shows.

I can't stop thinking about it either Marylin. I really hope that they faked Liz's death cause it's not going to be the same if she is really dead.

[believer14]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) Here's some more to add on that suspicion: Source But Believer, it's a baby girl Not a he. But yes, I as well think that the baby will disappear from the show this season still... We'll see I guess. I at least can't see the girl staying.

Wow, thanks for that, or thanks to that tumblr shipper! It's really great... and I like the bits and pieces that the writers left, so if its actually happens, it wouldn't be OUT OF THE BLUE, it would be something planned, subtle, like it.

oops, my bad.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Originally Posted by xlennie (View Post) I just watched the episode. I will never recover.

Heleen Same here... I still somehow can't believe it's true.

I was surprised it was a girl as well. I thought it would be a boy too and that they would name him Sam! But you have to admit that Agnes is pretty cute. I think Tom is going to take care of her the best her knows how to. He will not give her up for adoption. It's the last thing he has from Liz. He will never give that up.

If though, how would he be leaving for a possible spin-off then? I don't really know honestly. This will be a hell of a roller coaster until the end of the season. That's for sure.

Oh man, that scene where Red held Agnes for the first time The baby girl even grabbed his finger. OMFG, I'm dead.

And I just re-watch the episode and I am really sure that it was Mr. Kaplan and that it is faked. Liz collapsed right after Mr. Kaplan was in there, I'm sure she gave her something to cause all of that... And she was always there when she needed to be in case to make sure Liz will survive this.
Besides, her going all in on Red, telling him that he was wrong to make her believe that he could protect her. Her telling him that he fooled them all. And the way Mr. Kaplan reacted to all of it makes me curious on what she herself did experience in the past. It was something personal for her, we never saw her like that.

[Miranda]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) Oh man, that scene where Red held Agnes for the first time The baby girl even grabbed his finger. OMFG, I'm dead.

That was such an amazing scene. So cute!

And I just re-watch the episode and I am really sure that it was Mr. Kaplan and that it is faked. Liz collapsed right after Mr. Kaplan was in there, I'm sure she gave her something to cause all of that... And she was always there when she needed to be in case to make sure Liz will survive this. Besides, her going all in on Red, telling him that he was wrong to make her believe that he could protect her. Her telling him that he fooled them all. And the way Mr. Kaplan reacted to all of it makes me curious on what she herself did experience in the past. It was something personal for her, we never saw her like that.

If they really faked her death, the only one that could have done it is Mr. Kaplan. That woman knows what she does. She looked awfully long at the bag with Liz' body in it too. I have to say that I was taken aback by what Mr. Kaplan said to Red. He needed to be put in his place for this but I didn't think Mr. Kaplan would do it but it was probably all a diversion. Let's hope it was.

[kn37]

I loved the episode so much. Not that I loved what happened, but I think that episode was so good, because it was soo sad and the characters had all so good moments. It was everything so emotional.

I loved all Tom/Liz scenes. There were soo many this week and soo great. I gonna miss them so much. I loved it when they were working as team when they had to escape from Mr. Solomon. And his worry about her all the time was really cute. And when she had to have an operation and he turned the music on, he was just the perfect husband. And took all the time care of their daughter, so I think he can be a great father despite his doubts he can do this alone. I first thought when the baby was born, that it's dead, but it started to breath. And they were both so happy. So I thought everything was fine, but well, then it started to get bad. But before, I loved the moment when they were deciding on a name. And he was such a huge support all the time. Sorry, that I talk about all scenes of them, but probably we won't get any scenes any time soon.

I think Tom is going to take care of her the best her knows how to. He will not give her up for adoption. It's the last thing he has from Liz. He will never give that up.

I totally agree with you! It was her last wish in their last conversation that he should take care of her. So he will!


And about the name, it was great from Tom, that he named the girl like Liz wished and that it's her grandmother's name is also nice, but could have the writers came up with another name, because I don't like him neither. It's too old.

For Liz being so rough to Red I blame the hormons after the birth and I loved when she knew not everything was fine and she could die that she talked to Red and apologizied. But now would have been the time when he should have told her about her past and who's trying to kidnap her, because she should have known who wanted to kill her and so she could have possible protect herself better. So I can understand that she overreacted first, but to blame only Red for it was false, because it's probably also about her past.

I loved that everybody was shown when they got the message Liz died and it was so emotional. Except Tom and I really would have loved to see his first reaction. I also would have wished that Samar were in that scene with Aram and he could hold her, but that were still awesome scenes. The look between Cooper annd Aram and how Copper cared about him. Also when Red almost felt when he was walking to his car and he was sitting so long in the ambulance and were holding her hands. That was a really cute scene. It was sooo sad and emotional.

And I'm really sad that she died. I was so shocked and couldn't really believe it, but knowing the fact Megan is pregnant, it made me believe it more. I was actually sure she would be real dead, but after reading your comments, I have a lot more hope that she will come back.

I liked the scene at the end when Tom was giving Red the baby. It was like they accepted the others and wouldn't fight anymore, but the promo seems to contradict that.

The whole episode was so thrilling, but at some moments I felt like I was in a hospital series, because it was all about the doctor saving Liz or the baby. But not that this is a bad thing.

I have to say all the conclusion episode are sooo great, none of them were bad. And probably this one will be my favorite so far, it was a mixture of great character moments and action.

[Fangirl49]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) Marilyn don't keep your head down. So far we don't even know if there'll be a spin-off and if Tom really will be gone. Besides, they didn't give an official statement on Megan's status on the show which is good, too. I recall how much she loved being on that show, how she fought for that role, she didn't leave Not with all the unsolved puzzles around her and Red. It won't happen, she isn't dead. Besides, have you seen the promo for next week's episode? I'm sure that it'll be one of the best of the show so far, at least I'm positive because all the baby stuff, the Tom/Liz stuff, the Red/Liz stuff, everything is done for now. Maybe it's not too bad to not have her around for a while to sort things out with the show because what we had the last couple of weeks wasn't what I was looking forward to with the show.

Thanks for talking me off the ledge. Yes I think next weeks episode is going to be incredible.

I really hope toms show gets picked up. I like Evil Tom better than lovesick tom and think I would like him better on his own show. I got a little tired of the Lizzie tom dynamic this season.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

If they really faked her death, the only one that could have done it is Mr. Kaplan. That woman knows what she does. She looked awfully long at the bag with Liz' body in it too. I have to say that I was taken aback by what Mr. Kaplan said to Red. He needed to be put in his place for this but I didn't think Mr. Kaplan would do it but it was probably all a diversion. Let's hope it was.

Yes, I thought it really harsh what she told him as well and it all came out of a blue for me. We'll see how all of it turns out, right now we're just not possible to tell.

I loved all Tom/Liz scenes. There were soo many this week and soo great. I gonna miss them so much. I loved it when they were working as team when they had to escape from Mr. Solomon. And his worry about her all the time was really cute. And when she had to have an operation and he turned the music on, he was just the perfect husband. And took all the time care of their daughter, so I think he can be a great father despite his doubts he can do this alone. I first thought when the baby was born, that it's dead, but it started to breath. And they were both so happy. So I thought everything was fine, but well, then it started to get bad. But before, I loved the moment when they were deciding on a name. And he was such a huge support all the time. Sorry, that I talk about all scenes of them, but probably we won't get any scenes any time soon.

Katha, don't you worry! Bring over whatever you want and talk about whatever you want! I as well really enjoyed watching the Tom/Liz scenes. Besides of that music and party light part during the emergency C-section maybe But all in all the scenes were great and I loved to see how Tom has changed and how much he cares for her. I have been positively surprised by him the last two episode

Besides, you are right I guess. He promised Liz to take care of their baby girl if everything went wrong. He'll do that. If he really had changed and the last two episodes make me believe though, he'll do that.

I liked the scene at the end when Tom was giving Red the baby. It was like they accepted the others and wouldn't fight anymore, but the promo seems to contradict that.

It was kind of a peace offering and considering Liz being dead, I really would love for them to get along. Seriously, this needs to end now. The promo though, like you said, won't let me set my hopes up too high.

Oh yes, not getting Tom's reaction was so sad and I'm really sorry we missed that... Do you think he would have heard before or do you think with Red entering he knew?

Thanks for talking me off the ledge. Yes I think next weeks episode is going to be incredible.

Marilyn, you're welcome You'll see, everything will turn out to be okay in the end.

And regarding Tom, I as well love him more in action and badass myself I'd love for him to get his show tbh, too.

[Miranda]

Originally Posted by Fangirl49 (View Post) Thanks for talking me off the ledge. Yes I think next weeks episode is going to be incredible. I really hope toms show gets picked up. I like Evil Tom better than lovesick tom and think I would like him better on his own show. I got a little tired of the Lizzie tom dynamic this season.

Next week's episode is going to be incredible but I don't know if I can handle it!

I actually thin I am going to feel sorry for Tom and I never have but nobody deserves this. Become a father and a widower in one day.

Originally Posted by kn37 (View Post) And about the name, it was great from Tom, that he named the girl like Liz wished and that it's her grandmother's name is also nice, but could have the writers came up with another name, because I don't like him neither. It's too old.

It was really great that Tom named the baby after what Liz wanted even though he didn't really like the name at first.

[kn37]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) Katha, don't you worry! Bring over whatever you want and talk about whatever you want! I as well really enjoyed watching the Tom/Liz scenes. Besides of that music and party light part during the emergency C-section maybe But all in all the scenes were great and I loved to see how Tom has changed and how much he cares for her. I have been positively surprised by him the last two episode Oh yes, not getting Tom's reaction was so sad and I'm really sorry we missed that... Do you think he would have heard before or do you think with Red entering he knew?

Yeah, that music and party light scenes were maybe a bit over the top. But I still liked it.

I thought at first also maybe he didn't heard it yet, but I think that he did, I don't know, but he made the impression on me that he was again ducted and it would have been too less words to tell Tom. Just because Red is looking sad, she didn't has to be dead. Or what do you think?

[Miranda]

Originally Posted by kn37 (View Post) Yeah, that music and party light scenes were maybe a bit over the top. But I still liked it. I thought at first also maybe he didn't heard it yet, but I think that he did, I don't know, but he made the impression on me that he was again ducted and it would have been too less words to tell Tom. Just because Red is looking sad, she didn't has to be dead. Or what do you think?

I think Tom didn't know yet. Who would have told him? I think he could just see it by the look of Red's face. I think he was in shock.

[kn37]

Originally Posted by Miranda (View Post) I think Tom didn't know yet. Who would have told him? I think he could just see it by the look of Red's face. I think he was in shock.

Maybe you're right. I just though there were so many people in that 'hospital' and that one of them knew it for example from the doctor and so Tom would know it also.