[Lauren Helen Graham]

Miranda, I think you've been the only one who saw it out of the Ressler/Liz shippers.

I would like to know more about Liz her feelings. I just really hope they don't go down the Tom/Liz road again. They are not good for eachtother. Too much has happened, they can't possibly recover from that imo.

For now I think it'll be all about her feelings about Tom. The Tom and Liz relationship for sure will be a big deal in the last couple of episodes of the season... The outcome I think just depends on what Liz feels and what she wants.

Jayta, you really seem to not be a Red fan at all. He's my favorite character and Lizzie/Red and their relationship the reason why I'm watching. I don't think he's such a bad person. He just wants to protect her and right now we don't know what the Red/Tom assignment really was like so I won't judge on it yet.

I think the Tom/Red relationship is so complicated as well... Until we don't know what really happened back then (and I hope we will find out) it's hard to say who the bad guy is. In the end, maybe none of them because Tom got his assignment by the Major and Red is just doing what he can to protect her. He's just gone too long without telling Lizzie the truth that he doesn't know how to do it now. He's afraid I guess because he really cares about her. It's not just for the Fulcrum, that's for sure by now. Especially judging by what he's told her at the end of the episode.

And it's not just Tom who thinks that she can't trust Red. It's most of the task force as well, for example Ressler, Cooper and so on...

[ChellyChelle]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) Miranda, I think you've been the only one who saw it out of the Ressler/Liz shippers.

I'm a Liz/Ressler shipper and I see that Tom does feel something for her. I'm not so sure it's love, per se. But I definitely think he has mixed feelings about her being more than just an assignment. I just can't get on board with Tom/Liz just going from where they've been to all of a sudden being friendly and chatty. I feel like we've missed some major steps in the process.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Originally Posted by ChellyChelle (View Post) I'm a Liz/Ressler shipper and I see that Tom does feel something for her. I'm not so sure it's love, per se. But I definitely think he has mixed feelings about her being more than just an assignment. I just can't get on board with Tom/Liz just going from where they've been to all of a sudden being friendly and chatty. I feel like we've missed some major steps in the process.

Me neither, Chelly. I really can't see why they would be that way around each other either... That's why I was thinking that they have been in contact before the phone call in 2x14. Maybe they'll be surprising us and show us in a flashback that there's been contact before...

[Miranda]

Originally Posted by jayta (View Post) I am by far, not a Ressler/Liz fan. Just cause they're partners doesn't also mean they have to end up in bed together. As for Tom/Liz road again? It technically would not be again, would it? Because this time it would actually be real and everyone knowing exactly who everyone is and it's based not on lies.

No technically it wouldn't be again but I think if they would try that Liz couldn't get past everything that happened.

He was brainwashed from when he was a kid, so he doesn't know any different and doesn't know who he is. I think this is a great jumping off point for this show for any character. It could go so many ways.

I agree on this. He doesn't have a clue who he really is. He has not been himself in such a long time and I can't wait to see how Tom will develop.

[jayta]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) Jayta, you really seem to not be a Red fan at all. He's my favorite character and Lizzie/Red and their relationship the reason why I'm watching. I don't think he's such a bad person. He just wants to protect her and right now we don't know what the Red/Tom assignment really was like so I won't judge on it yet. I think the Tom/Red relationship is so complicated as well... Until we don't know what really happened back then (and I hope we will find out) it's hard to say who the bad guy is. In the end, maybe none of them because Tom got his assignment by the Major and Red is just doing what he can to protect her. He's just gone too long without telling Lizzie the truth that he doesn't know how to do it now. He's afraid I guess because he really cares about her. It's not just for the Fulcrum, that's for sure by now. Especially judging by what he's told her at the end of the episode. And it's not just Tom who thinks that she can't trust Red. It's most of the task force as well, for example Ressler, Cooper and so on...

I never said I did not like Red. I actually like him a lot as a character. I even sympathize. However, he is still a person who manipulates. And because Hollywood always sees fit to give 'crininals' hearts of gold in certain ways, it leans me not to want to believe that.

However, the way the writers have Red, is that he can do anything a criminal mastermind can do (ie. kill people) and still come off as good.

Yes I did think I mentioned the fact that the task force says that he is not to be trusted, but that is coming from a task force full of rules abiding people who enforce the law point of view. The reason why I say that so far Tom is the only one who has said it out of the people who have no ulterior motive/objective/alignment with Red or against Red.

No technically it wouldn't be again but I think if they would try that Liz couldn't get past everything that happened.

I think that previously the Lizzie, FBI agent, could NEVER have possibly trusted Tom again. I don't think she would give it a second thought. However, I think going through all of the things she has with Red, and seeing the things that she has. It's no longer a one way street. I believe that she has seen that Tom isn't a criminal - 1 dimensional character - only there to ruin her life. I think she sees that he does care for her. I think that she has seen that with her there is something different. Of course they had moments with him kidnapped and a prisoner, where they were saying hateful things and the coldness existed between them. However, I think Tom could understand that. That is why he allowed her to get away with that. As well, I think Lizzie went dark in that time period so she can no longer claim to be this pure as driven snow FBI agent who only follows the rules.

Now, however, I do think she has glimpsed into the world that Tom has had to live in - survive in. So I do think that there is definitely a relationship between them that still has chemistry and still has emotion in it. I personally would not object to them exploring that as who they are, rather than him returning to be 'Tom' the 4th grade teacher. I wouldn't want that at all. However, I do like the idea of them remaining connected and being unable to really pinpoint what it is exactly that holds them there. Is it love? Is it just the inability to let go?

Or perhaps is it the idea of knowing who each other are now, and wanting to still stay connected - to understand where each other is really coming from now.

That is the relationship/connection I crave from these two. Whether they end up together, I couldn't say. I really have no push either way. My thing is that I just love Ryan and Megan on screen together. I actually just really love Ryan on screen - who can argue with those abs?

I do not ship really anyone on this show. I think on this show, I would rather it not be any kind of a shipping show romantically. However, if push came to shove, I could see myself shipping Tom and Lizzie. But I just would like good storytelling and character development. And I am just so happy they didn't just make Tom this kind of assassin killer con artist and then have him walk off screen. It makes it so much more interesting.

Plus, I think that Ryan holds his own with James Spader on screen.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Then I got your previous post wrong, Jayta I'm sorry. But it really sounded that way. I agree about the fact that he's a person that manipulates. But for me the reasons why he is doing it count... And we don't know a lot about his reasons yet. If he really is doing it to protect Lizzie, I think I can live with it. If not, we'll see.

And him being manipulative is the only reason he's still alive more than 20 years after his disappearance I guess...

Yes I did think I mentioned the fact that the task force says that he is not to be trusted, but that is coming from a task force full of rules abiding people who enforce the law point of view. The reason why I say that so far Tom is the only one who has said it out of the people who have no ulterior motive/objective/alignment with Red or against Red.

And still, who knows if Tom is telling the truth... In the end he was the one betraying Red. I really want to wait until blaming or judging anybody until we know the whole truth. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

[jayta]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) Then I got your previous post wrong, Jayta I'm sorry. But it really sounded that way. I agree about the fact that he's a person that manipulates. But for me the reasons why he is doing it count... And we don't know a lot about his reasons yet. If he really is doing it to protect Lizzie, I think I can live with it. If not, we'll see. And him being manipulative is the only reason he's still alive more than 20 years after his disappearance I guess... And still, who knows if Tom is telling the truth... In the end he was the one betraying Red. I really want to wait until blaming or judging anybody until we know the whole truth. Hopefully we'll find out soon.

I meant the writing. Not necessarily the character of Reddington. I think the writers could do a better job of making it less like Reddington is someone backwards hero. He's not.

And I don't think it counts one bit. I understand lying about the truth in a sense that knowing it may be to her detriment. However, I do not think manipulating her like he manipulates the task force is a reason to appreciate him.

I understand the fact why he does it. He is a criminal mastermind. But for people to think it's out of the goodness of his heart is another. I choose to see him as he is, not some martyr or someone who deserves to be admired.

I think that Red is someone who chose the life he leads. He reaped the consequences. Or at least his family did. Now he's trying to manipulate the situation where he gets to have his cake and eat it too.

If he wanted to protect her, why the hell would he make it SO VERY obvious that he would only deal with her and put a target on her back. Some would argue that he did it because she already did have a target on her back. I don't have the full story yet so I'm not sure.

But he has made it even more obvious which causes issues.

As for Tom, he was doing a job. Why does it have to be anything more than that? As stated, the Major farmed him out on a better paying job. How the whole job thing went, I'm not sure. But he really seems to be a chameleon who does what he was brainwashed to do.

What the reasoning for that is...Why he chooses to believe that this is a better way of life, I am not quite sure. I am hoping for more backstory from him.

[L i N d $ @ y]

I really like this ep save for one SL: Connolly coming in to save the day after all the trouble the FBI & Red went through to extract Tom. I was like WHUT. And then he makes open threats to Cooper. Go away. I don't need you on this show. And I like that this ep focused on other characters like Tom & Cooper since the show has been focusing a lot on Red/Liz lately. I understand that they are what makes the show but I like to see how the other characters fit along with this show and how their story can affect Red and Liz.

Favorite scenes are the ones with Cooper/Liz and Red/Liz towards the end. Cooper basically said what I have been feeling lately with Liz that I was relieved to hear all those truth bombs. When you come to think of it, all of these people: Red, Cooper, Donald, Tom and to some extent Samar & Aram. They have all put themselves on the line for their work or for Liz. A little appreciation from her end would be nice. And that Red/Liz scene in the end was so telling of what maybe happened to Red's past... perhaps he was talking indirectly about Sam? It's ironic how in that way Red & Liz are similar but it also makes them closer having a shared experience. I felt for Det. Wilcox. I think Connolly may be working for the Alliance and Ames was not given justice here. And I think Judge Denner is a judge, nothing more. In the end, the FBI and Red wins. I'm fine with that but it's just annoying how Connolly saved the day and not Red or the FBI.

As for ships, obviously Donald/Liz to me. Probably not gonna happen to most of the posters here the way the show is going but I'm hopeful and pining (and probably even more now after that ep). Ressler has been nothing but supportive of Liz and he wanted to be there to help look for Tom. No way was he sitting this one out. My problem is just lately the show is not focusing on that and they're not written well as a couple. I did see Tom still cares for Liz in that ep that he was willing to tell the truth and save Liz but I have to agree with Miranda that there is something missing. Are we just going to expect that all is good between them and that Tom is redeemed by doing that to Liz? She still doesn't know that Red & Tom are in cahoots. I don't think however that they can go back to the way they were in S1. But in a way, it's kind of like the relationship of Red/Liz for me. Liz has two bodyguards now. And Red/Tom can work better that way, I think. I do however understand that this show isn't about the ships which is what I like about it in the first place but it's great to talk about preferences with everyone here and I like the fact that we all have our own ship corner to root for. This is why I love this board anyway.

Also is it safe to say that Cooper is all better now? I kind of like how the writers revealed Cooper's illness on the show. I really hope he's better now and that the meds are working for him.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

For me it's just not fair that you would grant Tom the fact that we don't know exactly what really happened back then but not with Red. We don't know if he chose that life... So yeah, I won't judge any of them just yet because you can't do that without knowing their whole history. We neither know who Tom (or Jacob) nor Red is just yet. Simple as that.

Red and Tom have done terrible things in the past, especially to Lizzie. And it doesn't matter if it was "just" a job for Tom. It doesn't make what he did any better. I'm really not sure which is worse. Having a criminal in your life that you know is exactly that or the person you love, the person you fully trusted for years, the person you married and were ready to start a family with. That betryal feels so much worse to me! No matter the background.

Jayta, I love that you joined us here It's so cool to have different opinions here. That's what lives of.

[ChellyChelle]

I love the discussions!

I really need to re-watch the episodes after Tom realized that Liz knew who and what he was. I don't fault him for doing his job/assignment when it came to being in her life. But if I remember correctly, he was pretty ruthless in the way he spoke to her and also the way he assaulted her in their house when he was trying to get away. That to me speaks more than anything.

If he was "in love" with her, as they now are trying to play into, then to me his actions then would've been different. You could argue that he didn't realize the way he felt until recently.

Like I said, I think he realizes that she is a good person who may not have deserved to have what did happen to her. But I can't see them "loving" each other until they first get to know who each other really is. And that would definitely mean that Tom has to get away from the world he lives in now and change his ways. And also take responsibility for hurting her in the first place.

And also it would mean coming clean about the fact that Red hired him and in what capacity. I still wonder why he is holding onto that card....

[sunshinedan]

This is quite a good ep. overall.However, some of the lines and twist bothered me.
Samar's comment "it's extremely romantic"made me are you ?

Tom's not willing to come back,what he told Red on the phone was resolute and cruel.Suddenly, he showed up at court.What's his deal with Connally?To prortect the task force that he can walk away?It's odd.
I don't buy"he comes back for Liz,still loves her"thing.It's utterly awkward.What he did to Liz in S1 don't show him how much he loves her. The scenario in this ep. doesn't convince me to believe it. Who knows what's his motive,maybe something else instead of love.
I hope the Tom thing would be finished at the end of S2.He annoys me.His storyline is out of the picture and disconnected to the main one.

[jayta]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) For me it's just not fair that you would grant Tom the fact that we don't know exactly what really happened back then but not with Red. We don't know if he chose that life... So yeah, I won't judge any of them just yet because you can't do that without knowing their whole history. We neither know who Tom (or Jacob) nor Red is just yet. Simple as that. Red and Tom have done terrible things in the past, especially to Lizzie. And it doesn't matter if it was "just" a job for Tom. It doesn't make what he did any better. I'm really not sure which is worse. Having a criminal in your life that you know is exactly that or the person you love, the person you fully trusted for years, the person you married and were ready to start a family with. That betryal feels so much worse to me! No matter the background. Jayta, I love that you joined us here It's so cool to have different opinions here. That's what lives of.

The thing is for me, I'm not granting Tom a pardon. I am just saying that his purpose was not to personally manipulate or hurt Lizzie. As far as I can tell so far. As for Red, I can't say I know the full backstory, but I have a hard time believing that he didn't get into whatever caused his family to be murdered by without knowing certain consequences to whatever he was in. Because they portray Red as SUCH a criminal mastermind, that implies he's highly intelligent and he would not have seen that there may be consequences to getting involved in whoever he was involved with.

However, I do grant you the fact that we do not know how he exactly got involved with the people who killed his family.

As for that betrayal, yes it is very heartbreaking, but IF Reddington is her father, I think that him lying to her point blank when it seemingly was quite safe to tell her if he is or is not her father. I think the parental betrayal would be harder for me personally because I see parents as those you can run to and trust and should be your rock and foundation. Of course she did not get that with her real parents, but she had Sam. And just from the leads they have dropped I think the writers are still going to put a few twists in this whole relationship and the why's.

As for Tom, I think that it would not be that hard to get over if she truly loves him. I I can't say which way the writers will sway in that but I believe people can change and I think that while he was with her, he definitely changed while undercover. I think she affected him. And I think she knows that, even though he doesn't let on. If I were looking at it as black and white, no doubt someone should say that she should not trust him or get back together with him. However, emotions aren't black and white. Plus the fact that people can choose a different life and if someone is willing to forgive and allow the other person to try to redeem themselves, why not?

After saying all of that, I really am not invested in seeing these two get together. All I want is more Tom because he makes everything a little more interesting because he is someone Reddington has no control over in a sense and in regards to Lizzie.

Yes, thanks for the welcome

I personally believe in good storytelling and cast chemistry. I just roll with the ones I feel have more possibility and more storyline that could be told. Plus when you've got someone with abs like that and can speak multiple languages, who am I to argue?

Originally Posted by ChellyChelle (View Post) I love the discussions! I really need to re-watch the episodes after Tom realized that Liz knew who and what he was. I don't fault him for doing his job/assignment when it came to being in her life. But if I remember correctly, he was pretty ruthless in the way he spoke to her and also the way he assaulted her in their house when he was trying to get away. That to me speaks more than anything. If he was "in love" with her, as they now are trying to play into, then to me his actions then would've been different. You could argue that he didn't realize the way he felt until recently. Like I said, I think he realizes that she is a good person who may not have deserved to have what did happen to her. But I can't see them "loving" each other until they first get to know who each other really is. And that would definitely mean that Tom has to get away from the world he lives in now and change his ways. And also take responsibility for hurting her in the first place. And also it would mean coming clean about the fact that Red hired him and in what capacity. I still wonder why he is holding onto that card....

I wrote a long thing and then it 'poof' disappeared The gist of what I said was that I don't think he's in love with her. NO WAY! But I think he cares for her and conned himself so well into the role of someone who loves her that he has a hard time letting that go.

As for the assault, I'm pretty much sure that's instinct. I think he would have just ran rather than beat her to a pulp. I mean he did just handcuff her to the bannister. Nothing else.

Originally Posted by sunshinedan (View Post) This is quite a good ep. overall.However, some of the lines and twist bothered me. Samar's comment "it's extremely romantic"made me are you ? Tom's not willing to come back,what he told Red on the phone was resolute and cruel.Suddenly, he showed up at court.What's his deal with Connally?To prortect the task force that he can walk away?It's odd. I don't buy"he comes back for Liz,still loves her"thing.It's utterly awkward.What he did to Liz in S1 don't show him how much he loves her. The scenario in this ep. doesn't convince me to believe it. Who knows what's his motive,maybe something else instead of love. I hope the Tom thing would be finished at the end of S2.He annoys me.His storyline is out of the picture and disconnected to the main one.

I knew Samar's comment was coming. But you have to know there are people in the world who would see it with a slightly rose-colored glass kind of view. She was trying to romanticize it, which you could take it in that way if it were some tv movie. Which may be how she views the world to get through the day. Who knows?

I don't think it was crazy. I just think it was levity.

And I don't think Tom's coming back was resolute. I think he wanted it to be resolute. He was pissed off, pacing in his room after his cover was blown. You could assume it was solely due to the fact that it was because of the blown job. Or it could have been a mixture of that AND finding out Lizzie was going to jail. He did not want to think about her and want to care that she would go to jail if he did not show. And I think it was played perfectly because I heard this determination that he was NOT going to do it - not at the behest of Reddington or anyone.

But in the missing time, I could see him being torn about it. And getting pissed off more for it being in the back of his mind. And then finally having to go there.

And he did not make a deal with Connolly before because if he had, he wouldn't have had to try to make a deal with the judge. Let's be mindful of that.

I don't think he did really horrible things to Lizzie other than the betrayal which technically is enough. But I think it showed him as a 'loving husband' albeit a u/c agent who was lying to her. I think the only brutal parts were out of instinct of self preservation, and then lashing out when Lizzie herself went coloring out of the lines by kidnapping him and holding him hostage.

[L i N d $ @ y]

Originally Posted by ChellyChelle (View Post) Like I said, I think he realizes that she is a good person who may not have deserved to have what did happen to her. But I can't see them "loving" each other until they first get to know who each other really is. And that would definitely mean that Tom has to get away from the world he lives in now and change his ways. And also take responsibility for hurting her in the first place. And also it would mean coming clean about the fact that Red hired him and in what capacity. I still wonder why he is holding onto that card....

I don't think they can go back to how they were in S1 but they can work on rebuilding that trust that they lost. If they will rekindle whatever it is left for them, I am begrudgingly all for it so that Ressler will have an aneurysm and try to break them up.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

The thing is for me, I'm not granting Tom a pardon. I am just saying that his purpose was not to personally manipulate or hurt Lizzie. As far as I can tell so far. As for Red, I can't say I know the full backstory, but I have a hard time believing that he didn't get into whatever caused his family to be murdered by without knowing certain consequences to whatever he was in. Because they portray Red as SUCH a criminal mastermind, that implies he's highly intelligent and he would not have seen that there may be consequences to getting involved in whoever he was involved with.

I think Tom as well had a choice. IMO he manipulated her as well, he manipulated her to fall in love with him, to wanting to have a family with him. I think that's a big manipulation as well since that was his task (no matter if only after Berlin took over or before already - which we don't know though). Red did, too, don't get me wrong... In the end, they are very similar in their relationship to Lizzie. They both did equally bad things to her.

And about the second part. Yes, Reddington really was a mastermind, even back when he was in naval academy when he was young. But who knows, maybe he was blackmailed somehow to join whatever activies there were or it was simply his job and the government was involved? He might not have seen it coming or another choice. And when that fire happened in 1989, Red wasn't a criminal. He still had his normal life, his family, his friends. He disappeared a year later. He can be as intelligent as he will if he's blackmailed or if it's just his job he's doing. And he was Lizzie's Age back then... So we can't blame him for his mistakes because we all make them and he wasn't a criminal mastermind back then. He became it after he disappeared.

After saying all of that, I really am not invested in seeing these two get together. All I want is more Tom because he makes everything a little more interesting because he is someone Reddington has no control over in a sense and in regards to Lizzie.

Same here I just don't want to see the Red/Lizzie relationship completely going down the drain. There for sure will be tons of ups and downs in the future but in the end I want them to see on ease, the relationship matter and really be important (no matter which direction - daddygate or lizzington).
And I can really see Tom being a great opportunity to mix all of what has been established so far up. But that's good because that's maybe the only way that Liz will ever find out the whole truth about her past and her connection to Red and all the mysteries in her life. He will be the trigger I guess. For some of it at least.

As for Tom, I think that it would not be that hard to get over if she truly loves him. I I can't say which way the writers will sway in that but I believe people can change and I think that while he was with her, he definitely changed while undercover. I think she affected him. And I think she knows that, even though he doesn't let on. If I were looking at it as black and white, no doubt someone should say that she should not trust him or get back together with him. However, emotions aren't black and white. Plus the fact that people can choose a different life and if someone is willing to forgive and allow the other person to try to redeem themselves, why not?

I guess that's where people are different. I would never be able to let that person back into my life, which way ever. I'm not even sure if I could forgive such a betrayal... I guess I couldn't even forgive it. But it would be the same for me if I was Tom. She shot him and held him captive on the boat for four months. She tortured him as well. Not too easy stuff to deal with either.

Tom's not willing to come back,what he told Red on the phone was resolute and cruel.Suddenly, he showed up at court.What's his deal with Connally?To prortect the task force that he can walk away?It's odd. I don't buy"he comes back for Liz,still loves her"thing.It's utterly awkward.What he did to Liz in S1 don't show him how much he loves her. The scenario in this ep. doesn't convince me to believe it. Who knows what's his motive,maybe something else instead of love.

I think he told Red that because he didn't want to do what Red said. Just because it was Red he came over demanding such an act of his...

But he wanted to help Lizzie, because yes, I believe that he still cares for her. And that that is really the reason for him coming to court in the end. Not at all because Red threatened him.

And I agree with Jayta, Tom didn't interact with Connolly at all because like Jayta said then Tom wouldn't have had to go see Judge Denner for that private hearing. Connolly was there afterwards.

I really need to re-watch the episodes after Tom realized that Liz knew who and what he was. I don't fault him for doing his job/assignment when it came to being in her life. But if I remember correctly, he was pretty ruthless in the way he spoke to her and also the way he assaulted her in their house when he was trying to get away. That to me speaks more than anything. If he was "in love" with her, as they now are trying to play into, then to me his actions then would've been different. You could argue that he didn't realize the way he felt until recently. Like I said, I think he realizes that she is a good person who may not have deserved to have what did happen to her. But I can't see them "loving" each other until they first get to know who each other really is. And that would definitely mean that Tom has to get away from the world he lives in now and change his ways. And also take responsibility for hurting her in the first place. And also it would mean coming clean about the fact that Red hired him and in what capacity. I still wonder why he is holding onto that card....

Somehow I have to protect Tom here... Maybe he doesn't even know how to act when something goes awry in a mission. He just left and if he might have cared for Lizzie, maybe even loved her, he might not even have known what he was feeling. I doubt that he ever was in love before. There simply wasn't any room for that in his life. So he left... To find himself being brought back to her by the Pavlovich Brothers and be tortured by her? I'm not sure how happy I would have been there and so I at least a little bit understand his behavior. He needed to get free and he wouldn't have had another chance than to fight with Lizzie. When he got the gun he didn't shoot her, he could have but he didn't. He just fled.
When he put a gun to her head he did it because he was protecting one of Berlin's man. He didn't know that Red would know that he had fallen in love with Lizzie... But Red knew and stepped up on it and in the end Tom really didn't shoot her but Red. He wasn't able to shoot her because he cared for (maybe loved) her. But she shot him!
In the boat, he might have tried to protect her by killing the harbor master. If that was necessary for sure leaves lots of room for discussion and I don't think it was. But yeah, it happened out of that reason most likely.

I'm as well wondering why he would still hold back on that card, Chelly... I guess we'll figure that out soon. At least I hope so that by the end of the season we know that whole truth and Lizzie does as well.

[ChellyChelle]

Yeah, I see your points Kris.
Tom was in fight or flight mode and Liz was just an obstacle in his way. But still... it was hard to watch. I felt so bad for her. And when she got back to her apartment and everything was a mess. I think that's the scene where she ended up at Ressler's doorstep.

Maybe it's so hard for me to jump on board with a friendship/relationship between them because I don't know who he really is. Not sure he even knows who he really is at this point.