[Wild Pikachu]

Oh for crying out loud, it's been in the damn rabbit for 26 years? Actually, that should be obvious to anyone who stops to think about it for a minute. Where else could it possibly have been where Liz would know anything about it?

I remain convinced that Red is the person who pulled Liz out of the fire.

[Miranda]

OMFG! all I can say! Diego was right, one of the best epsiodes so far!

I never imagined that Braxton would be working for the Alliance! The guy that 'runs' it now just gives me the creeps. I just knew Luther wasn't gonna live long and that Red was going to kill him but I never imagined him doing it the way he did. When I saw Luther hanging there I was a little bit shocked. I wonder what the Alliance guy is gonna do with him. I don't think he has a Mr. Kaplan person on his speed dial

Red and Liz! I never imagined he would tell her he was there that night of the fire! I just don't get how she figured that out. In her memories I could tell there were some guys there but not that Red was one of them. Now we actually know why he chose, I really wish he chose her because he was her father or for some other reason but not this one. Not because she had the Fulcrum all this time without knowing it and it was in the bunny all this time for crying out loud?! Who ever thought about that? Althought we didn't learn as much as I wanted about her past, I am glad that we found out little things. What's with the name though? Masha? This is getting way more complicated then it already was..

Ressler saving Samar was really sweet, although of course I rather had him save Liz but yeah at least he saved somebody! Still I think we saw to little of him again this episode. When he found Liz and Red, I loved they way he told Red to stop, he didn't want her to get hurt. You could hear in his voice he was really worried about her. I just wish they would have gotten more into the fact that he put the blanket around her, hold her tight and walker her out. That could have been such a sweet moment between them!

Aram and Samar! The look on his face when he walked in Cooper office and saw Samar! And then the hug, it was soo sweet! The look on Ressler's face though and Aram hugging him ackwardly too, that was funny! That second moment between them I really thought something was gonna happen until Ressler came walking in, I screamed at him to go away. Let's just hope we get another moment like that between Aram and Samar.

And last but not least Cooper. I think it's cancer. The look of his wife's face was so sad. But in the beginning of the season when Red was at Cooper's house, Red told Cooper he knew about the disease. How could he have known then? Cooper just got the results last night...

[xlennie]

This episode has me more confused about the Red/Liz situation than ever. Does anyone have any good theories?

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Okay, here I am finally... I watched it this morning but too much to process to bring it all over here this morning.

First of all, I somehow figured that Luther wasn't working on his own. They referred to him as a thief and nothing more, so there always was the question for me why would he want to get the Fulcrum. And more specifically, how did he know about the fire, the girl and everything else... Although I didn't think of this alliance being behind all of it. So they know very well about Liz' past, just not that she is that girl from back then. They know now because of Luther and all that has happened which scares me because now she really might be in danger... Even more than before.

The Red/Liz situation... Don't even get me started. In the end, we know nothing. We know that somebody had the Fulcrum back then already, we know that there was a fire, that Red and her dad were there (apparently her mom, too) but that's it since they already had tempered with her memory in the past and all the roles could have been reversed. I think the memory is accurate in the sense that all the people were there and that happened what happened we just don't know who had which role. You know? I think that might be the way they have tempered it.

Besides, since it was 26 years ago from now it has to have been in 1989, and Red disappeared in 1990. So if he was there, he wasn't a criminal back then. Which makes the theory that he may have been ordered to do there whatever he did there in 1989 by the government or that secret organization or so... I really have no clue about it. But it's still possible.

And since we know that Lizzie was four years old in 1989 she now is 29 or 30, depends on if she was born in 1984 or 1985 (which makes her my age ).

Okay, enough of that... Back to Red and Lizzie. I wish she wouldn't have assumed that he was just in her life because of the Fulcrum. That's sooo not true, I'm sure about it. Somehow he did get the burn marks, she doesn't know about it and I hate that she jumps to the only clue she gets right away and damns Red for it. Even when she was told that her memory was tempered with before she doesn't seem to ever use her head because she's so emotionally involved and wants to believe Red is the bad guy in this... I doubt he is, I still believe in his innocence. He didn't just do all of it because of the Fulcrum but first of all because of her! Otherwise why didn't he try to get it before. He could have just forced her. Where is the point? Use your head, Lizzy.

I think the father question is so extremely present again! What if Red is her father but never had the Fulcrum but somehow her mom? What if all the roles in her memory were tempered with like I pointed out before. Or what if the man she things is her father really isn't? Like her adoptive father but biological Red being it like I have said before. The conversation in the flashbacks really could be an indication for that to be the truth.

The bunny... Yeah, that was so obvious. I wasn't surprised, I just was surprised that Lizzie found it right away. And I'm wondering what she's going to do with it now. I think it really dangerous to start meddling in that business but she will be looking for answers, that's for sure.

And I so agree with all of you, I HATED it that Red kept going on searching her memories when he found her. Yeah, I know he made sure that she wouldn't be hurt in any way by doing so but still. He should have just stopped it!

Oh, and how Lizzie got that Red was there the night of the fire, I have no clue about as well.

Samar and Aram... Was it just me that felt that Samar didn't want that hug. She seemed really uncomfortable which I didn't like at all... It lacked of heart of hers.

I somehow knew before that Red wouldn't be looking out for Lizzie with Ressler. The secret about the Fulcrum and the knowledge Lizzie provided was way too important to him. He would have never want Ressler to know too much about it.

Cooper... I think Cooper knew about being thick and what it could already in the pilot. Maybe they did some more tests to make sure if it really is what they are thinking and to be able to say, if it can be treated or how long he still has to live. I guess it's fatal. Red's question in the season two premiere make me assume that.

ETA - And keep your eyes open for the ring that person wore that put Lizzie into the closet!!!! I'm sure it has to mean something and I'm really curious when we'll see it again. Why would that person wear a ring if it wasn't important? Huh? And Masha, made me though about it being not American.

ETA again - About the Ring... It's a naval academy class ring... So yeah, Red was at the Navy

[Miranda]

I so didn't look at the ring. I was to busy with all the other stuff but I just watched that clip again. We really have to keep our eyes open cause who ever is wearing that ring nowadays was there during the fire then I guess..

I hated it too that Red kept on going on searching her memories when he found her.
I really thought he was gonna stop that doctor and he didn't. He used her too get information.

Which part did you like best? for me it was this one, the conlusion!

[Lauren Helen Graham]

For me it was the moment that Red was by her side while she he was searching her memories. It was so beautiful and their conversation afterwards. I love the most emotional scenes the best!

Oh yes, that ring... I doubt anybody will wear it but I somehow think that somebody has it and I'm wondering if we'll ever see it... We haven't before, have we? At least not that I recall.

I'm really wondering why he did go on searching her memories. If it really was to find the Fulcrum Or if there was more. Do you think he could have been the one tempering with her memories before, trying to block them (which ever reason he might have had). I really don't know, I somehow can imagine he was but I definitely am not sure. If so wouldn't he have known about the Fulcrum back then? But since he wasn't at the run at this time maybe this information somehow wasn't important to him and he just wanted her to forget about that nightmare. I really don't know. Or it wasn't him at all...

[i never learn]

red is so gross! how could he even troll liz's memory like that!? ruthless bastard. i was just glad liz finally saw red for what he really was! too bad the writers will get it wrong and amend their ever sadistic relationship again. ugh.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

I love the Red/Lizzie relationship and I doubt he's as bad a person as you see him. People are not born criminals but instead are shaped that way by their environment, by things happening in their lives. And I'm sure same happened to Red. He once was a good guy until something happened to him, we just need to find out what it was.

And this relationship isn't sadistic, this relationship is one of the few things that show us that there still is more to Red than him being ruthless, just a dangerous criminal.
Besides, we shouldn't forget that Liz has hurt him a lot as well so there this goes...

[ChellyChelle]

I REALLY enjoyed this episode. I think the writers gave us just enough answers to a few questions and also threw in a ton more that need answering.

The only thing I can say is that I had a hard time with the timeline of the events after they left the prison/rig. One minute they were in Juneau, Alaska and the next they were at the Post Office, the doctor's house and then some unknown location with Liz. It was all over the place. But I get that they were trying to pack in a ton of info.

I re-watched the scene with the man with the ring ushering her into the closet. My first thought was it was Red who put her in the closet to save her.

I still think his motives with Liz aren't just about the Fulcrum. I think they run much deeper. Even still, it didn't surprise me that he wanted to keep looking into her memories. Both of their lives are in danger as long as they don't possess the Fulcrum. The people trying to get it won't stop and now that they realize who is the key to it, the only power Liz and Red have is to find out where it is.

Maybe someone can help me out... I thought both of her parents died in that fire. But when I looked up some articles it said that only her mother died in the fire and her father left them when she was a baby. So if that's the case, I understand her line of "My father was there".

[Lauren Helen Graham]

I really loved the episode as well. It wasn't disappointing for me at all, just kind of depressing because of where Lizzie and Red left off. And there he is, alone again, still loving her (and I mean in a fatherly way) although she can't see or believe that.

Yeah, my first thought as well was that Red ushered her into the closet... Especially since it might really have been James because it looks like his hand exactly! I can't wait for the dvd to come out and the audio commentaries and stuff.

Chelly, I'm really glad you as well think he doesn't only care for the Fulcrum, but for her actually and that all of it runs much deeper.

We don't know exactly if her father died the night of the fire. Red told her with so called known certainty that her father died in that fire and Tom told her that her father still is alive. So I guess that's a puzzle we'll need to figure out as well.
And about her mother, in the pilot Red told her that her mother died (but not in that fire)... I'm wondering how they get to such an assumption. She died out of weakness and shame, Red said.

[ChellyChelle]

Ok, thanks Kris... although I still am so confused
I feel like we get facts one episode and then four episodes later we realize that may have not been the truth.

Ahh!! This show frustrates me but in such a good way!
And I really hope Cooper ends up being okay. I don't know where they're going with his health storyline but I want him around for seasons and seasons to come.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

You're welcome And yes, I so know what you mean... I always end up more confused with a new episode than I have been before. And yes, that is frustrating me, but in a positive way as well

I'm really crossing fingers with Cooper. If he really is suffering a deadly disease I only can see that person, who had took over in the season one finale and in the season two premiere... What was his name? His name was Walter Gary Martin. But I don't want this somehow.

[i never learn]

Originally Posted by Lauren Helen Graham (View Post) And this relationship isn't sadistic, this relationship is one of the few things that show us that there still is more to Red than him being ruthless, just a dangerous criminal.

um, no. all red does is use liz, which the writers are clearly conscience of or they wouldn't have had liz finally realize the extent of which red goes to to play upon her compassion and vulnerability. quite frankly though, after tom, i can't fathom how the writers let liz go on this long without confronting how disturbing her relationship with red is. she's legit one of the most naive heroines around...

[Ceta_Cea]

I just watched the episode and I'm still trying to gather my thoughts. Therefore my post is going to be all over the place. Sorry My first reaction is, that I truly loved the episode. Very different from the first part and most likely I'm going to have bad dreams tonight, but it was worth it.

In my eyes it is very logical that Red tried so hard to get the information. His life depends on it as does Lizzies. Who is going to protect her, if he is dead? I think that was his motivation.

I'm not sure if he is the guy who ushered Masha into the closet. One of the last images that Liz had, was that of two men going out of the building. It was kind of confusing because first one guy hold her hand and was leading her out and in the next he let go of her hand and then there where those two men leaving the house. Anyway what I wanted to say is that one of the guys (as far as I remember) wear a black jacket and a white shirt. To me it looked like Red, but of course I could be wrong.

The scene where Red stood alone in the swimming pool (at least it looked like a pool to me), was so heartbreaking. He was nearly crying there. That's why I believe he didn't just find Liz because of the Fulcrum. There is so much more.

Ah something else that I found quite interesting. He was trying to stir her memories in another direction. He told her that she didn't want to go in the room where the fighting was. He didn't want her to see what happened there.

I had a hard time unterstanding what they where fighting about in Liz "dream". Did anyone of you had the same problem?

The time line is also a bit confusing but it feeds into one of my theories. Since the alliance clearly has ties all over the goverment it wouldn't suprize me one bit, if they order soldier to do their dirrty work by giving them false intel.

We know Red brought Masha/Liz to Sam. What if they found out that Red did hide her and killed his family in turn? Maybe Red wanted to make public what happended that evening? Or maybe they wanted to pay him back for hiding Liz.

Oh and the new boss of the organization is in for a lot of trouble. He makes the same mistake Luther made. He believes Red is not a thread. Though I'm sure he is going to be a lot more dangerous for Red and Liz as Luther ever was. As the promo for the nex episode shows.

@I never learn: I acept your option but I have to be honest and admit that I don't share it at all. He didn't just go on with it. He asked the doctor whether she could get hurt. He doesn't want her to go back to the room where those two people where fighting because he knew she would get hurt. He was almost crying when she left. He isn't sadistic, at least not with her. As for Liz, she doesn't remember all of what had happened that night but she jumped to the first conclusion she could get. Which was to blame Red, even though she doesn't know why exactly he was there. She expected him to be there because of the Fulcrum. But do we really know he was there because of it? Don't get me wrong I don't want to belittle you for your option. I guess I just see the things more as different shades of grey instead of black and white.

[i never learn]

Originally Posted by Ceta_Cea (View Post) He isn't sadistic, at least not with her.

sorry, but even liz thinks red's a phony.