vortex

I posted a link for this pic because it could be considered a spoiler for anyone who has not yet see the movie.


http://40.media.tumblr.com/6b95a19bf...56q5o1_500.jpg

lulinha_k

Such a sad and beautiful scene. It broke my heart

vortex

I know right my heart was heavy with sorrow by the end.

lulinha_k

Mine too!

I think that the reason why the end felt só powerfull to me was because of that scene in the elevator. I mean, the whole ending is heart wrenching but that moment got me. Thomas is coming out and Edith is so scared and so, so hurt. And she is accusing him of doing all those bad thing to her and he is kind of whispering "I did, I did", and then. She screams at him:

"You said you loved me!" and he simple says "I DO!"

And she just stops and stares at him. As if she was traying to find some truth in his words. And he asks her to stay. To wait and to trust him one last time so they can leave that house together, once for all. And so she does. She waits and she trusts. Because she loves him so much that even after all those things that happened, she still wants him as much as she did the first time they met.

And that kills me every single time.

vortex

He did love her and he loved Lucille it must have been hard to try and please both of them.

lulinha_k

Very different kinds of love I think, but yes he did love both of them.

Forehead kiss

vortex

I wish there was going to be a prequel on there life before they met Edith. I would like to see how there sexual relationship got started. Since I got the feeling he mostly saw her as his sister. I read it started early in there life but why did he let it continue if that was the case oh so many questions that will never be answered.

wickedrum

maybe somebody will write a fanfic like that

lulinha_k

Well, I do think that it was a pretty much abusive relationship at first. Thomas was really fragile and Lucille taking the beats and protecting him when they were childs had huge influence on him.
He loved Lucille but also was very afraid of her, of what she could do with other people. She kept him inside their little world in Allerdale Hall. After all the abuse, I think Thomas just convinced himself that his life would never be better than that.

Tom said once in an interview that Thomas time with Edith was the first time that he actually had a healthy, lovely sexual relationship. And Del Toro said that the sex with Edith was Thomas first step for freedom. It was liberating for him.

It was only then that he got the guts to start to stand up and fight back Lucille's power over him.

moulinette

The part I find strange and what leads me to believe that their relationship was consensual, not abusive is because they were separated for all their teenage years, so Thomas chose to return to Allerdale Hall and Lucille as an adult. He had a taste for the outside world for many years, then came back.

I'm not GDT, but I probably would have written it so they never left, because that makes more sense to me. Like it was Thomas' secret wish to leave... well he did and came back, so I don't really get it haha.

I understand that he wanted to earn money from the clay, but if whatever "spell" that Lucille had over him that prevented him from leaving her didn't go away after not seeing her for at least like 5+ years, then I don't think it was ever going to go away. I think even if he ran away with Edith there would have always been something drawing him back in.

lulinha_k

When they were separeted they were already pretty much envolved. Lucille was already protecting Thomas from their abuse relatives and abusing him herself (even tough I dont think she ever thougth that she was suffocating or abusing him. She loved him trully an deeply and wanted to be loved back. And she got what she wanted, ultil Edith came to the picture. Maybe they sent letters to eachother during those years they were apart? They were already depending on eachother.

Thomas said himself: he was in love with Edith. And he loved her more than he loved Lucille (not as a dearing sister, but as a woman. He would always love Lucille very deeply. But he was in love, sexually and emotionally, with Edith.). And Lucille knew that. And that was the breaking point for her.

deej240z

An interesting take on the relationships
[Movie] Crimson Peak: Love and Monsters ← Rachael Acks: Sound and Nerdery

lulinha_k

That was an awesome review. I agree with almost everything that person said.

"when Thomas takes Edith to the party and convinces her to dance with him, he says: “I’ve always closed my eyes to things that make me uncomfortable. It makes them easier.” Consider that for a moment in light of the abuse the man’s faced at the hands of his sister. And then consider the two times we see him in a sexual situation, with Edith he had his eyes open, and for all the animalistic sounds we hear leading to when he’s caught in the act with Lucille, he doesn’t."

This is absolutely amazing and totally escaped me.

I just want to say that I love this debate. I love how this movie is so incredible and beautiful and we have so many points of view.

I wish the lurkers would decide to join us.

moulinette

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think there is anything to suggest Lucille was abusive. The back story says that their sexual exploration was mutual. Kids are curious, particularly ones that aren't taught right from wrong. People act like she was an adult grooming a child as her victim, but she was a child herself only 2 years older than Thomas. The relationship was not normal or healthy for either of them, but labelling it 'abusive' just seems to be an excuse being thrown around by a lot of Thomas fans (not you per se, but I see a lot on tumblr) as a justification to try and paint his later actions in a better light, than what they were.

Anyway, my point was that yes they were codependent at the ages of 12 and 14, but they were separated until Thomas was at least 16-18 and finished boarding school. So that's 4-6 years he was apart from her. So I'm just saying that Thomas would have had many options after he finished school...

1. He clearly had a wealthy aunt who paid for boarding school for him. After school he could have gone to work for those relatives
2. He received a full education unlike Lucille and could have gone to university
3. He could have got a normal job and have gone to work for anyone

I have just never heard of anyone who was separated from someone for that long and decided to return to them unless they wanted to. Particularly if for the sake of the argument, they were abused by that person. Even a codependent relationship would have moved on after that point. So he must have had a compelling reason to want to return to Lucille of his own free will. The idea that he was an adult without any volition just doesn't add up to me. This reason that everything he does is because Lucille told him to, just seems like an excuse to say he wasn't really guilty of any of his actions.

I don't think there is anything to suggest he loved Edith more to Lucille. Interested to know the reasoning for this, because he was still continuing a sexual relationship with Lucille even after he started one with Edith. It seemed to me that he loved them both equally, and he wanted the best of both worlds, hence why in his naivety he thought they could all live together happily ever after.

Edith definitely was the introduction to a healthy relationship for him. Well, healthy if we can look past the fact that he lured her into his home, so she would be murdered. And her life was only spared because he developed feelings for her... But yes, once he learnt a different kind of love like that it was inevitable that something would have to change in his relationship with Lucille. I wonder when though, because they were still happily poisoning Edith, up until she walked in on and them and the catalyst of events began. It forced him to stop being passive and into action, but what happens if she had never walked in on them? It seems he would have just let her die.

Anyway, I shall exit this thread now because clearly I don't ship them, but I was just trying to better explain my first comment and why the rewriting of his character (once again not pointing fingers at you) to a character that has no autonomy and everything awful he did was only because of Lucille, doesn't sit right to me.

lulinha_k

Agree to disagree then.
I think Thomas was pretty much responsable for his actions, but he was under Lucille's influence.

He wouldnt have let Edith die. When he is talking to Lucille and he says that he can't leave her, you can se the hatred in his eyes. And when Edith caughts them, he looks at her as if he was already expecting her to be there. For her to see he would never be better than that. But once Lucille throws Edith of de balcony, something changes. When Allan is traying to take Edith away and telling her that Thomas was already married, he tries to explain himself to her. He didnt kill Allan when Lucille orders him to do so.

And Lucille tells him he loves Edith more than her before she kills him and he confirms that to her. She then says that he promised to never fall in love with anyone but her and he says that it would happen sooner or later, that they were trapped in that house for years and... Well, he never really finished because she didnt let him.

I have no problem with you here. As long as we keep the debate healthy, it is fine