NotDoneAbusingYou

Well I'm not saying the way Catherine went about it wasn't brilliant. But there was always a chance. My point is that it was one of those rare moments were Catherine let all the other crap go and she was actually just trying to be nice and wasn't scheming and plotting. She didn't have to say anything at all if she truly knew in her heart Mary would choose Francis. It was actually a really motherly thing to do. A stark contrast to the way Mary's own mother handled the situation. Calling Bash a bastard and telling her she was making a bad choice wasn't the best way to talk her out of it. And Mary actually acknowledging what Catherine did when she gave Francis the blank paper, was really sweet.

shebacs

I object. Because Bash is actually a bastard. There's no round-about way 'around' that fact. And judging by the fact that Elizabeth of England wasn't given legitimization by the Catholic church, why would the Catholic church legitimize Bash? Because he's male? When there are lots of male heirs, legitimate male heirs of France? Nope. Sorry.

And besides de Medicis are closer to the Vatican than the Valois line. Heck, I kinda would have wanted Catherine with all the de Medicis money stir a revolution against Henry if Henry succumbs to this plot. Heck, even connive with England to usurp Henry and then they'll have no choice but to have Francis marry whoever Mary Tudor's heir is. You know for the sake of actually giving France a way to save face from their defeat.

Also Marie de Guise - Stuart is a battle-harden monarch. She's battling left and right, up and down, bastards and non-bastards against her child Mary. She knows betrayal and backstabbing and blackmailing because that's how Scotland's enemies play the game. And she has to play the game (a lesson also taught by Catherine) and does this to ensure what's right for Scotland and for her daughter.

It was foolish to think of this plot. A very bad conceive plot. Like a band-aid used to cover a big festering infected wound. And of course, its because of this plot, we have Future Max!

firewall

You hit the nail on the head with this. Marie tried blunt honesty and it failed. She tried manipulation and it didn't help matters. Catherine was wise enough to "be nice." To be motherly, as you say. She knew Mary loved Francis and she wanted to see them happy together, because now that the prophecy wasn't a factor, their happiness was genuinely her main concern. So, yes, she finally could be motherly and kind, because it suited her needs.

Catherine knew that threats wouldn't work. She knew that begging wouldn't work. She knew that the only thing she could do for Mary was to help her see that she had already made her decision the moment Francis said the words, "there is no prophecy keeping us apart."

confessor_meggy

I love the discussion on this thread, but I can't add much, you already said everything

Regbo Girl

The blank page scene was such a wonderful moment Mary and Catherine being in the same team again and Cat helping Mary realize what was what she really wanted

De Medici Queen

I just love them working together !

Regbo Girl

OT3 They always work better when they work together

NotDoneAbusingYou

The fact that he actually is a bastard has nothing to do with it. And that's exactly what I was getting at. Her mother, instead of being like, hey this is a bad idea it's never going to work. She was more like, eew you can't marry him, gross. Instead of telling her the risks she just hovered around the whole bastard thing. I'm not saying he isn't actually a bastard. I'm aware of that. I was just pointing out that Marie obviousl doesn't know her daughter well enough to know that wouldn't work.

shebacs

You have to see from the viewpoint of Marie de Guise. She doesn't have a lot of time. If putting a hot searing knife into the wound would close that wound, she will do it with a butcher's knife. Because she has been playing the B-B-B (betrayal, backstabbing and blackmailing) long before Mary could say her ABCs, its the only best way she knows.

She needs the best fix (that doesn't involve murder YET) she has for this situation especially rumors that Mary doesn't care about her reputation being soiled in FRANCE, right? But this whole thing does affect a LOT of issues, 1) another way to jeopardize Mary's rule in Scotland, 2) it will also tarnish the image of Mary with England as well as with Mary Tudor and it will go on and on and on.

Marie is also not Catherine nor she's part of the French Court. From the start, when Marie came into the court, she was awkward, inelegant, kinda like brusque walking instead of the refinery Catherine exudes. It was to show the differences of the French court and the Scottish court. It was to show how hard Marie is in a different game than what is playing at the French court, that its harder and dirtier in Scotland and she can't afford to be a dainty king, to be sweet, to be a nurturer that Catherine is to her children. Even if she really wants to, it sometimes comes off as awkward and brusque.

And I love Catherine and Marie both. Two different mothers, different approaches but they did get the job done.

Also notice the difference:

Francis was in awe of Marie, he took her advise about Mary and Bash, while he was not so inclined to believe his mother when she said Mary still loves him.

Contrast to Mary, who wouldn't do what her mother tells her or believes in her because she really thinks she was saving Francis from death. It took Catherine's act of sacrifice, for her to believe that the prophecy is gone and with the blank paper, she has the power to choose who she would marry.

I mean, most of the time, reignwriters and directors (maybe the editors) do get A+ in their writing.

NotDoneAbusingYou

That's my point. They went completely different ways. Her way didn't work.

Regbo Girl

Thankfully it ended the way they (and we ) wanted with Mary marrying Francis

NotDoneAbusingYou

Yes and I hope it stays that way for awhile. One tree Hill stretched 2 school years over 4 seasons. Maybe they can do the same.

Regbo Girl

OTH Frary can be like Naley (minus that thing with Chris Keller in s2 of course )

confessor_meggy

Let's hope so, I remember that when I found out Reign was a CW show (yes, I'm slow) that's what I was hoping for

So Catherine is....Dan?

NotDoneAbusingYou

God I hope not.