kerbear28

Not yet. Kinda bummed because I heard there are no Frary deleted scenes.

De Medici Queen

yeah, me neither. I thought there will be a Cathry scene but Amanda posted all deleted scenes on YT

kerbear28

Yep, I watched all of the deleted scenes last night, and I really enjoyed them! Even if there was no Frary or Cathry. Thanks to Amanda for posting them.

DigificWriter

Sorry to bump the thread, but I've started S2 and wanted to share my thoughts.

I like that the first episode of the season, The Plague, openedup, fir the most part, right where Slaughter of Innocence left off, althpugh it was sort of odd to see Kenna and Bash separated when it was supposed to literally be minutes after they watched the shooting stars fall. It was also jarring to see Nostradamus clean-shaven for the same basic reasons since there would've been no time for him to have cleaned himself up that thoroughly.

I also like that we got parallel storylines for Mary and Francis that essentially had very little to do with one another beyond the Plague being a catalyst for Francis and Lola being trapped on the road, because it allowed the characters to grow as individuals for the first time since mid-Season 1.

I could've personally done with less Catherine, but at this point she's a "necessary evil".

My favorite bit of the premiere by far was Mary exacting justice by locking Lord Eduard in with a bunch of plague victims, because it showed how tough she could be without compromising the characterization we'd seen from her previously.

Given how largely unconnected Mary and Francis' storylines in The Plague were, it was interesting and neat how well they ended up being dovetailed in Drawn and Quartered.

One of my biggest issues with Catherine is that the motivations for her villainy and antagonism just do not feel as genuine to me as the writers want them to, which is thankfully not a problem when it comes to her "replacement", Lord Narcisse. Getting Craig Parker to play the character was a stroke of casting brilliance, as you can palpably feel the dislike and contempt he harbors towards Mary and Francis dripping from everything he does and says.

I also like that the episode didn't actually end up going the predictable and easy route of letting Narcisse's actions and threats create tension between Mary and Francis in spite of Francis' attempts to comvince Narcisse otherwise.

My only complaint is that I wish Bash had been given a little more to do beyond just being annointed King's Deputy.

The Coronation has been my favorite episode of the season thus far, mainly because it actually gave our "lead trio" of Mary, Francis, and Bash their own individual arcs while also having Francis' and Mary's arcs partially interconnect and build off of each other, which is where I think the writing has become at its strongest.

I'm not sure at this point what the writers are trying to do with Catherine, or why Jonathan Keltz and Sean Teale were made/brought in to be Series Regulars, although I am intrigued by the possibility of Conde having unrequited affections for Mary.

Narcisse continues to be very effective - and believable - as an adversary for Mary and Francis as rulers, although it does make me question how in the world the writers are going to credibly take his character and pair him with Lola (a plot development that I was spoiled on as a result of my own curiosity).

I do really like this "reckoning" storyline they've started, especially in regards to how it plays into Francis committing patricide in Slaughter of Innocence, and can't wait to see where it goes.

All in all, Season 2 has gotten off to a really great start on the whole, and I'm excited to delve into Episodes 4-6.

kerbear28

No need to apologize! It's great that you brought this thread back.

Season 2 is quite a roller coaster ride, believe me. You will start to see all of the repercussions of the choices that were made in those first couple episodes - and the havoc that Narcisse's contempt for the young monarchs is going to cause. I don't want to spoil anything for you, but... it's heartbreaking. I can't wait to hear your thoughts about the writing in Season 2 as it unfolds. For me, I still haven't completely forgiven the writers for some of the choices they made.

I'm sorry that Catherine's motives don't come off as genuine to you. I thought Megan always did a fantastic job of making them clear. She would do ANYTHING to protect her children and the Valois line. PERIOD. Any desire Catherine might have for power and influence is so that she will be able to accomplish that goal. As Megan explained in a panel at Dragon Con last weekend, Catherine was never was evil for evil's sake. There was always a justification - her love for her family. She often felt like she had no other choice. If you can't sympathize with her at this point... I don't know what to say.

DigificWriter

I've finished Episodes 4-6, and have to say that I certainly wasn't expecting the writers to go in the direction they did, which is neat because I like it when I can't predict where storylines are headed.

I found it really interesting that what seemed in the first three episodes to be a setup for another mythological/supernatural-tinged storyline instead became secondary to a much more straightforward political and religious-based storyline, coupled with the introduction of personal obstacles for Mary and Francis, although I was disappointed that the writers chose to turn what seemed to be - and easily could've been - a more supernatural storyline with Francis apparently being plagued by his father's ghost into a fairly cliched "blackmail plot" hatched by Narcisse, especially since they simultaneously decided to try and get audiences to buy into the seeds of a romance between him and Lola starting in Blood for Blood, creating a bit of narrative dissonance that doesn't really benefit any of the characters involved.

I probably should've expected that Francis and Mary's happiness wasn't going to last long, but I didn't, making the scenes in The Lamb and the Slaughter where Mary miscarries and then has to tell Francis extremely heart-wrenching, especially since Adelaide Kane absolutely slayed with her acting in both scenes... as well as in Blood for Blood when she and Francis blew up at each other over the loss of their child and Francis yet again pushed her away out of love.

The fact that the writers spun things off into the realm of the political in The Lamb and the Slaughter and Blood for Blood left Bash and Kenna without much in the way of significant storylines, and what seemed to be the start of some fun stuff involving Kenna and Lola was deflated a bit by the aforementioned attempt to make Narcisse seem less dangerous even while he was causing strife between Francis and Mary through his manipulations and deceptions, which was disappointing, but hopefully we'll get a little more of the genuinely supernatural in subsequent episodes.

I haven't really talked much about Three Queens, largely because I don't think there was a whole lot about it that actually worked narratively, although it was nice getting to see Francis' leadership skills make a return.

kerbear28

For me, the supernatural storylines on the show were always hit or miss, so I was never disappointed when it turned to straight human political/religious drama. I do understand what you mean, though.

There are plenty more heart-wrenching scenes to come for Mary and Francis. But, Adelaide and Toby always deliver.

Three Queens is actually one of my favorite episodes. I loved seeing Catherine and Mary out on their little adventure together - emphasizing their bond and everything they have in common. It was so funny and refreshing.

sherry02

I was just the opposite. I preferred the supernatural plots to the political and religious drama. I always enjoyed the relationships dramas though, except for the second half of season 2.

DigificWriter

Since I don't like Catherine and find the Lola/Narcisse stuff to be a stretch right now, there's little about Three Queens that I personally found engaging, but to each their own.

kerbear28

^ Oh, I completely understand that if you don't like Catherine you wouldn't really enjoy Three Queens. I can't wait to see what you think of the next few episodes. SO MUCH DRAMA.

For me, the relationship drama was always what kept me the most engaged - with the exception of the second half of Sesaon 2, like you said (Oy). The other plots just fed into that. The supernatural plots were interesting, but the way they were resolved was often unsatisfactory or anti-climatic for me.

DigificWriter

I've finished the season up through Acts of War, and have mixed feelings about the direction that the season's storylines have either headed already or are about to head.

I understand why the writers are pushing Francis and Mary apart, but at the same time have problems with the method by which it's happening due to the fact that they're trying to use Narcisse as the catalyst for that separation, either directly or indirectly, while simultaneously trying to convince us as an audience to invest in his romantic pursuit of Lola and buy into the notion that, for all of his manipulation and scheming, the fact that there's been an assassination attempt on Francis' life by Protestants might be "a step too far". It doesn't work, and it's frustrating because it drags down a storyline that would otherwise be extremely compelling and be firing on all cylinders.

Because of the broader problems with the execution of the French Wars of Religion storyline, Adelaide Kane has to make you care about Mary's own part in that story almost through sheer force of will, and, fortunately, she's more than up to the challenge as an actress. The final 5+ minutes of Acts of Warare Emmy-worthy as Mary has to soldier on through shock and pain and then reluctantly push away the only man who's ever truly had her heart for fear of breaking down and further shattering their now-tenuous connection.

The other major storyline running through Episodes 7-9 is the introduction of Princess Claude and the implication that she murdered her two youngest sisters out of jealousy, but, even there, there are executional issues, largely because it relies on the audience buying into the notion of Catherine's children "softening" her to the point that she'd cover for Claude and yet still resent her.

Things aren't all bad, though, as I do like where they're heading with the French Wars of Religion in a broader context, especially in regards to its impact on Greer and Castleroy. The devastation of them finding out that they inadvertently contributed to the assassination attempt on Francis was really well-executed by both Cerina Sinden and Michael Therriolt, and I can already tell that it's going to be heart-wrenchingly crazy watching this situation play itself out.

I also really like the way both Bash and Conde are involved in the broader storyline of Catholic versus Protestant, although I do worry about the impact it's having and could continue to have on the relationship between Bash and Kenna.

kerbear28

It's interesting that Narcisse's involvement is what seems to bother you the most about the rape storyline (at least through episode 2x09). I didn't really have an issue with the storyline itself - or the fact that Mary and Francis were being pushed apart. Adelaide and Megan did a PHENOMENAL job in the episode and it was incredibly powerful and moving. A+++ acting. Seriously.

For me, it was how the "aftermath" was handled that really upset and disappointed me. SPOILER: As you probably already know by now, the rape was used as a way to introduce a rather disgusting and painful new love triangle between Francis/Mary/Conde. It got to the point where many fans didn't even recognize Mary anymore and found it almost impossible to forgive her. I won't say anymore, but I'm anxious to hear your thoughts as the season continues.

I really love how Catherine and Claude's relationship developed. They are a pretty awesome mother/daughter duo - second only to Mary/Catherine.

Ah Greer and Castleroy's part in the wars of religion storyline is heartbreaking and SO well done.

Bash and Kenna.

DigificWriter

I'm now up through Forbidden (Episode 15), and, shock of all shocks, don't hate Narcisse quite as much... largely because the show introduced somebody who's WORSE than he is in Antoine Conde, King of Navarre ( as the hosts of the Reign Afterbuzz TV aftershow put it, Narcisse is an a-hole and Antoine is a douchebag, and, at least in this instance, being a douchebag is worse than being an a-hole). I still don't buy his interest in Lola, though.

I can understand why the Francis/Mary/Conde situation might leave a bad taste in people's mouths, but, for me, it's less about the writers presenting it as a romantic triangle and more about them presenting Conde as someone to whom Mary isn't mentally attaching the 'baggage of traumatic association'. I also find it really fascinating and neat that the direction of this particular narrative is allowing both Adelaide Kane and Toby Regbo to really show off their acting talents in a way that we really hadn't seen in Season 1 and up through the first 8 episodes of Season 2.

Greer losing pretty much everything was really sad, although I find the choice to push her into a "new life" as a madam to be rather interesting, largely because it's so different from what the writers were doing with her character previously, and also because it offers up a chance to consistently take the narrative of the series beyond the confines of French Court.

I love Francis and Mary together, but now that the writers have gotten away from Narcisse being complicit in pushing them apart and instead chosen to focus on Mary's psychological issues as the catalyst for their separation, I'm finding myself invested in both of their journeys, especially since we're getting to see more interactions between Francis and Lola that don't rely quite so heavily on their son and, at least through Forbidden, are more about the two of them existing in each others' orbit as friends (who just so happen to have conceived a child together).

Speaking of Lola, seeing her wasted on opium in Forbidden was really funny, and really allowed Anna Popplewell a chance to show off her range as an actress in a way that we hadn't seen previously.

I love Bash and Kenna, so it's really frustrating to see the writers pushing them apart for seemingly no reason other than to create drama, which makes it kind of hard for me to care about the other storyline involving Bash that they've introduced and that involves this Sister Delphine character.

I wanted to like Princess Claude earlier, but couldn't really get behind her because the writers were intertwining her story with Catherine's, so now that we're getting to see her in a context that isn't built around her mother's completely misplaced and rather schizophrenic love/hatred of her, she's instantly become more likeable and more interesting... although she really should stay away from Narcisse.

Speaking of Catherine, I found the fact that she was seeing both Henry and their dead daughters interesting, even though it didn't do a whole lot to improve my opinion of her on the whole.

Season 2 has kind of been all over the place in terms of its broader narrative, which is kind of unfortunate, but I do like where they're headed with most of the individual characters' specific storylines, so things have kind of evened out in the end.

kerbear28

Oh yeah, Antoine is AWFUL. A douchebag for sure. Not only does he threaten the entire Valois line, he also comes between Kennash, one of my absolute favorite ships.

As you get to know Louis Conde a little more, you will see that he might be even more dangerous than his brother. He manipulates and pressures a young woman in a vulnerable state and goes after the throne of France. GROSS.

You are absolutely right that the bright spot in that whole mess of a storyline was how it showcased the acting talents of Toby and Adelaide. They were BRILLIANT and made my heart ache for both characters. I really felt their pain and isolation.

I actually really enjoyed Francis and Lola as friends and co-parents. It was very sweet and poignant. Lola high on opium was HILARIOUS. Anna was really adorable and charming.

The way Kenna and Bash's relationship was treated on the show still upsets me. Like you said, they were torn apart just to create unnecessary drama. And no one really cared about Delphine.

Finnegan

Reign's second season was remarkable and useful -- a mass-market teen TV show about the French civil wars of religion, made and first aired in a country where very few people know anything about the French civil wars of religion. They were nearly as nasty as the Thirty Years War, and came half a century earlier; all Europe was horrified. Yet very few Yanks (of whom I am one) know anything about them, except that memory of the horror of St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre still lingers. To find historical fiction about them in English, whether in print or on film, is rare.

Reign's first season avoided the subject of the wars of religion, using boogeymen in the woods as proxies for Protestants. Perhaps the show's producers found the subject too sensitive or unsuitable for teen viewers. However, the second season addressed the subject squarely and instructively. That change of policy seems to have been well received by Reign's viewers, not surprisingly; about things that matter, like not killing one another in the name of God, American teens have more curiosity than is commonly supposed.

Does anyone know why or how the show's policy changed in that respect? It seems a story worth telling.