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Old 04-11-2018, 06:25 PM
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REIGN REWATCH #1: Season 3, Episode 2 - Betrothed - April 12, 2018

REIGN REWATCH
Season 3: Episode 2 - Betrothed

 


ELIZABETH's ALLIANCE WITH CATHERINE BACKFIRES -
Elizabeth must deal with the political backlash of harboring Catherine in England, while Catherine is imprisoned upon her return to France. Mary is forced to make some difficult decisions about securing Scotland’s future and Lola is conflicted in her feelings for Narcisse.






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Old 04-12-2018, 01:19 PM
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Just a fun note. Catherine ends the Episode the same way she starts it...face down in the dirt.

Even when she's cut down so low, Catherine is still saucy. "...smug weasily face" classic.

There was always so many arguments over who was wrong in this situation, Catherine or Mary....honestly I think the answer is neither and both at the same time. They both had thungs they did wrong, but both had good reasons for doing most of them....

The thought of Mary and Charles being married is distubing still.

Can't beleive Lola fell for the rat thing. She was never smart. Narcisse is a snake.

Charles was so mean to Claude and I still never understand why.
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:25 PM
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My random thoughts - Part 1

- Smug, weasely face. Catherine is so strong and sassy, even at her lowest.
- Mary trying to convince Francis to execute Catherine. I really do understand both sides, but it hurts my Matherine heart.
- Mary telling Francis that she's not pregnant. "But fate has other plans."
- "You and I us. We're not just royalty. We are more than an alliance. We're different. We love each other." ~ "We always will."
- You're right, Amanda. The idea of Mary marrying Charles is still disturbing. Mary is pretty strong to agree to it - to protect both their countries.
- Elizabeth and her awful privy counsel.
- "The Medici issue."
- Nominating Dudley as the new ambassador to France. And the scheming Lady Amy Dudley. That guy she is sleeping with. Ick.
- Lola is pretty niave to fall for that dead rat in the bathtub trick. Oy... Narcisse is a snake. But also really desperate and pathetic if he thinks he needs to manipulate a woman with fear in order to "win" her.
- The meeting of the siblings. To be honest, I wanted to see a little more of all of their reactions to the news of Francis dying. It didn't feel like...enough. Charles is just plain scared. Bash assures Francis that his son will be protected, which is sweet... but it only makes me wish we could have seen him fulfill that promise.
- Charles is rightly disturbed and upset at the prospect of marrying Mary, but his initial reaction makes me laugh a bit. He wants a wife his own age? DUDE, it's not like Mary is some old, ugly hag.
- I really do love seeing Francis and Mary working together as a team, even if it's against Catherine. They are right, though... Charles needs to see both sides.
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:24 PM
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Part 2

- I have to admit… Narcisse is good. The picnic in the woods. The declaration of love. His astute understanding that an affair will never be enough for Lola. Offering her marriage and the hope of a real family. His arguments would be hard for any girl to resist. “I want you forever.” Sounds beautiful.
- Ahh the beginning of Cleith. You gotta respect Leith standing up to her and refusing to cater to her every whim. Granted… he’s only brave because Catherine is in prison.
- Poor Catherine learning that her eldest son is dying. Literally the only situation in which she is powerless. So desperate to make Francis see that she has always loved him and protected him. Mary too.
- “She's shown me more love than anyone in this family ever could. True love, without condition.” Oy, this was hard to swallow so soon after the Conde affair. As much as I respect Mary’s love for Francis, it was not always unconditional.
- Elizabeth’s scheme to use her friend to get out of “the Medici issue.” Cold.
- Oh, now Elizabeth and Dudley are role-playing – prisoner and warden. Kinky. Liz will do whatever it takes to keep her man in England.
- Oh, William. You’re so tiresome. Blah blah blah end your affair with a married man. Blah blah blah find a husband. I understand that Elizabeth feels trapped, but it’s hard to feel sorry for her at this point…
- I really don’t understand why Charles was so mean to Claude when she came to him. He of all people should understand wanting the freedom to marry whomever you choose. Even if he isn’t able to give that gift to Claude, he should WANT to give it to her. He should want his sister to be happy. I guess he’s just lashing out – trying to make those around him as scared and miserable as he is.
- It was so sweet how easily Catherine convinced Charles that she loves him and that he wants her by his side as regent after Francis dies. It was the truth, but it hurts that she was using and manipulating him at the same time.
- Bash and Leith! I love this duo. UGH, Delphine. Why are they still talking about you? I guess we know now that she was telling the truth, though. She wasn’t the killer…
- Catherine ordering the assassination of the Bourbon line – the murder of children. I get that she is protecting her own family, but… so brutal. Such a rude awakening for Charles.
- Mary warning Lola against Narcisse. Geez, literally EVERYONE is trying to talk some sense into the girl.
- Mary telling Lola that Francis is dying. She is right… Francis had protected them all for so long, and it will be a different world without him. Time to start making wise choices…
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:41 PM
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On the note of Charles wanting to marry someone his own age....back then the (historically speaking) age difference of 6 or 7 years is a big deal when most only live til their late 30s to early 40s.

And the unconditional love thing always makes me laugh my ass off. Francis is so wipped. If anyone's love for him was unconditional it was Catherine's...though he never felt the same about her...bit hypocritical.
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:46 PM
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Just a fun note. Catherine ends the Episode the same way she starts it...face down in the dirt.

Even when she's cut down so low, Catherine is still saucy. "...smug weasily face" classic.

There was always so many arguments over who was wrong in this situation, Catherine or Mary....honestly I think the answer is neither and both at the same time. They both had thungs they did wrong, but both had good reasons for doing most of them....

The thought of Mary and Charles being married is distubing still.

Can't beleive Lola fell for the rat thing. She was never smart. Narcisse is a snake.

Charles was so mean to Claude and I still never understand why.

Truth about Catherine.... both counts.....

Which situation was Mary vs Catherine???

Mary and Charles is something I agree was disturbing.... while I understand Francis th8nking on protecting them both I don’t see how it could actually work be viable for them....

Lola she knows who Narcisse is... her choice is another bad one to put her in position to be a victim of her sircumstance... there is/was a pattern there... you feel sorry for her but how many times before you become all... (I have a friend who has gone through a similar pattern so I may be bitter or less compassionate....truth talk)

Wonder if Charles and Claude’s relationship strain comes from (going to her talk with Leith at the end) her being a favorite of their father and her being allowed by him to be married for love not alliance..... unlike her brother and that resentment.

Ep has me cryin from the go....
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:10 PM
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Oh hey, Brie! Yes, this was a very emotional episode... especially for us Francis and Frary lovers.

You're probably right about Charles resenting Claude. That makes sense.

The clash between Mary and Catherine is really a clash of philosophies. They simply have very different views on how to rule and how to protect the people they love. I honestly don't think either of them is completely right or completely wrong.

Part 3 of my random thoughts. Thanks for bearing with me to the end.

- Liz totally throwing her friend under the bus and letting her be banished… and then having her arrested for treason! And totally belittling her lover in front of the entire privy council just to keep him in the country. NOT her finest moment.
- “Who cares about right or wrong if you’re dead.” Catherine certainly knows how to make a compelling (yet harsh) argument.
- Oy…her king and her friend is dying, but Lola is certainly going to use the situation to her advantage. It’s kind of romantic that she sees a side of Narcisse that no one else does, and I get why she is attracted to Narcisse and the protection he offers. But the whole “just be patient and we’ll get what we want” speech makes me want to smack them both.
- And now Narcisse’s manipulation is revealed. UGH. Just like him… just taking what he wants by whatever means necessary. I still want to believe that he truly desires to be worthy of Lola, but it’s so… messed up.
- More Elizabeth and Dudley angst. I love it, but it got old rather quickly.
- CSI Bash finding that poor couple with their hearts ripped out.
- “Is this really happening? Am I really planning a life, a future without you?” A beautiful, heartwrenching moment….yet it was hard for me to accept the first time I watched it. As if Mary hadn’t a short while ago been planning to abandon France and Francis and run off with Conde. But, I appreciate what she is saying now. No matter what Mary did or planned to do, she never imagined a world with Francis not in it.
- More Cleith. Poor Claude… no one left to protect her. “I'll stay here until you drift off. For as long as it takes.”
- The new English ambassador to France… he better watch out.
- Mary lording her victory with Charles over Catherine and (not so subtly) threatening her with execution. Part of me wants to cheer her on, and the other part is just shaking my head.
- Megan’s performance in that final scene is so brilliant. The physicality of banging her head against the door… the pain and desperation in her voice. Brilliant.
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:18 PM
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It was an emotional episode for us Catherine lovers too. Poor baby.

CSI Bash scene was so gross.

No part of me cheered Mary in in that scene. I feel she went way too far in threatening her that she was going to talk her own son into executing her. I mean damn Mary. She only did what she did because of you in the first place...take sone responsibility for your part in it. The only reason this moment didn't make me hate Mary was because she changed her tune quickly in the next episode and actually admitted Catherine meant no harm to her children.
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:26 PM
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Yes, it was so hard to see Catherine in that horrible situation... and being so disrespected.

Oh, I completely agree. Mary went entirely too far in threatening Catherine like that. She was just so... hypocritical. And cruel. What.. now that Francis has forgiven her she thinks that doesn't have to take responsibility for her own part in this mess? Thank GOD she changes her tone in the next episode.
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:49 PM
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Yes, it was so hard to see Catherine in that horrible situation... and being so disrespected.

Oh, I completely agree. Mary went entirely too far in threatening Catherine like that. She was just so... hypocritical. And cruel. What.. now that Francis has forgiven her she thinks that doesn't have to take responsibility for her own part in this mess? Thank GOD she changes her tone in the next episode.
Did she go to far, or was she embodying everything Catherine herself has already and would do in the same situation...

The whole series except for moments here and there Catherine was plotting to be rid of Mary, or diminish/compromise her in one way or another...... in a sense Catherine brought it upon herself.....

(Also going back to the conversation in 2-22 where Mary pointed out that blood shed for Francis and herself is a last resort). I think she was emotionally tired and threatening her was a way to release some of the anger she was having at the whole situation she was finding herself in.... as we see the change of heart in the next Ep I think the threat was a mostly empty one but a reminder that if pushed she will respond....
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:51 PM
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I think Mary always loved Francis - as much as she tried to replace him with Conde there was always the hesitation or not genuine or almost there nature as big as their plans were, I think for her it was more fantasy and as it became more real there was hesitation and relief when they all fell apart....

I also think it wasn’t Conde specific he was continually put in her path... but it could have been anyone that was separate from her life and how it was spiraling out of her control...

And Francis isn’t wasn’t an angel by any means... confiding in everyone but Mary lying to her pushing her away - but he still loved her just the same as she loved him
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:25 PM
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Those are excellent points. In a sense, Mary was behaving as Catherine had taught her. Ruthless. Perhaps Catherine did bring it on herself. I mean... she did choose to have her own grandson abducted. However, Mary's choices are what led to Conde's siege on the castle in the first place. She is not innocent. At the end of the day, neither of them actually wanted to make good on their threats against each other. Both of them were doing what they thought was necessary to protect the people they love.

I totally agree that Mary never stopped loving Francis. At times her actions made me doubt for a moment, but I truly believe her when she says she has ALWAYS loved him. What she felt for Conde was merely gratitude, and she would have clung to anyone who offered her escape.

Of course Francis always loved Mary, too - even when he was hurting her by pushing her away. He was doing it because he loved her and needed to protect her. These two never made it easy.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:00 PM
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Being Royal in many ways removes ones innocence... just the situations and decisions it would seem they were put in meant that it was compromised.... you can’t rule 100% and be innocent it’s the transition from princess to queen or prince/Dhofar to king... you have to let go of some of this....

What you can do is either let go of innocence like Henry and Catherine did, or try to hold on to what you can like Francis and Mary tried to...
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:48 PM
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You've just eloquently described one of the central themes of the show, and what provided the majority of the tension.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:22 PM
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Here's the thing about Mary's point in violence being a last resort for her and Francis....it is simply only because she has yet to be that way...she will understand that soon enough.

See, Catherine has been conditioned to be that way. She has been forced so often to go to that bad place that she has just eventually decided it's the only way and started skipping the less violent options. Case in point when she first tried to kill Mary and Nosty tried to talk her out of it she immediately took his advice and did as he suggested by telling Mary the truth....an option she gladly took but did not see until he pointed it out. Then again when she ordered the guard to bury Mary and Bash in the woods...Nosty again said isn't there another way and she asked him if he could think of one. The problem here is not that Catherine jumps to the worst option so quickly, it's that Mary simply has yet to realize she doesn't do any of it lightly. And not being that way in the end is what gets Mary into so much trouble time and again.

Mary in this case actually went further than Catherine ever would have since her threat was an unecessary one. Catherine hurts people only to protect her family, killing Catherine at this point wouldn't actually be protecting anyone. It was simply Mary getting her revenge. Also, just the episode before Catherine told Elizabeth she wouldn't ever kill Mary. So Mary in this case crossed a major line in cruelty. Especially in the fact that she was not inly threatening her life but threatening to turn Charles against her and doing it all against Francis's wishes.

Catherine was 100% accurate in saying tbat Mary and Francis weren't any better than her. They just hadn't been exposed to as much crap as her yet. They are simply too young to see it yet. Once you get to later season 3 and season 4 you can tell Mary starts to understand and she no longer feels that way about Catherine. She even admits in the next episode that she was wrong.

Catherine may have brought it upon herself....but so did Mary. She brought all of it on herself. Catherine have her sooooooooooo many chances to turn it around in season 2. She didn't do a single thing too her rhe whole time when she clearly was angry as hell. She only made a move after Mary's actions put all their lives in danger. And even then did not personally attack mary until after she told Francis what she'd done. Telling on her was a betrayl after she had essentially protected her secret through season 2 and had given her the chance to stop being stupid because she understood...until it went too far.
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