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Old 06-19-2017, 01:30 PM
  #61
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Guys really. Everyone needs to stop hating on them because they knew it was the final season. THEY DIDN'T KNOW! Every cast and crew member has confirmed this at one time or another.
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Old 06-19-2017, 03:29 PM
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Watched the finale, I had read the history of the period, so knew what happened at the end and wasn't surprised or caught unaware by Mary's death. I, however, was one of the fans who was disappointed in the ending .....not surprised, just disappointed. The last few minutes were so quickly enacted that I couldn't catch my breath between scenes.....had no time to process what was happening. The back story of Reign was history. It wasn't like some historical dramas where the writers can create fictional stories from whole cloth.......It was what it was and history couldn't be changed. I'm sure that the story would have been told better with more time and perhaps at a slower pace.

But I dearly loved the show. I have always said the actors on Reign were literally the most beautiful people on television. Each actor was a vision to watch. Whoever chose the actors who portrayed each character knew what they were doing. I commend that person. I will truly miss watching the show. Hope to be able to keep up with each actor from the show in the future.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:17 PM
  #63
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I was only dissapointed in a few things.

We had to hear Mary'a letter to Elizabeth a second time. A whole scene....to hear something we already heard. Time that could have better been used for giving some closure to french court.

Then there's the ending montage..not the frary reunion....just the flash backs. One...it went on longer than necessary...especially when showing so many scenes from THIS SEASON...why not show more older scenes. Why show what we just saw LAST WEEK. Another waste of precious time. Secondly, who edited that montage? The music choice (while it was a fantastic song) did not fit at all and there was no fliw to it. No emotion. There should have been some aort of transitions for the clips. It's like they weren't even trying. Like they said...we have frary...no one will notice we were lazy.

Lastly, when Mary was led out to her execution...SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD A PRIEST. Historically she was not allowed a catholic priest. This was a big deal. If tbey needed a character to walk out with her and tell her about James, it should have been Greer since ahe had her ladies still with her at the end. Also, I'm a little bitter that she didnt say "in my end is my beginning" when she put her head in the block.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:40 PM
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Here's the Afterbuzz show that Lindsay was talking about. I haven't had a chance to watch it yet.



Quote:
Guys really. Everyone needs to stop hating on them because they knew it was the final season. THEY DIDN'T KNOW! Every cast and crew member has confirmed this at one time or another.
Exactly! There were certainly things they could have done better, but you can't blame for not planning to shoot a finale. They really didn't know.

^ Amanda, those are all very good points. I agree about the letter, the montage and the song. It didn't really flow the way it should have, and it was way too long. Plus, the scene choices weren't all the best. Parts of it did feel a little lazy. A lot of time wasted recapping things we had just seen and heard.

I hadn't heard that about the priest. That's so interesting! I would have loved if Greer had been there with her.

According to Wikipedia, her last words actually were, "In manus tuas, Domine, commendo spiritum meum" ("Into thy hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit"). So, the show was pretty close on that point. "In the end is my beginning" came from the French phrase En ma fin est mon commencement, which she had embroidered on her cloth of state. I would have loved if they would have shown that or incorporated it somehow.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:08 AM
  #65
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I've seen that afterbuzz interview and I'll tell you one thing, this is Hollywood, cast and crew of cancelled shows with rushed endings will always make claims that they didn't know in order to shift the blame. This is not a new tactic, this is typical hollywood. And in this case, the actors would have been told what they should say in order to stay on good behavior basically and keep good connections. You're not gonna find actors or crew hating on their own show and writing staff, they're gonna try their best to smooth over any perceived blame, and by saying they weren't told and such is the best way to save face.

There's no way they didn't know, and if they didn't, then they were arrogant and overly optimistic, which isn't any better, because getting a 16 episode season should have sent all the alarm bells to be ready for cancellation - season 4 was already a miracle renew in itself, season 5 should have been a pipe dream at best, not any level of certainty.

I don't blame the network one bit on this. This is all on the showrunners and production team. Actors are actors, they aren't always informed and they will say what they're told. But there's no way the showrunners/production team didn't know. Especially when sources have stated that they had talks about the fate of the show before and being ready for the ending.

Nobody should have thought they'd get a season 5, especially the showrunner, unless their heads are in the clouds and aren't being realistic.

I'm sorry but I just don't buy that they didn't know. Cast and lower tier crew and some writers maybe, but not the showrunner. I recently worked on a new show that had a cancellation and you'd be surprised how in constant contact showrunners and network actually are. Or that people involved in the production had a script to follow of what they should say about the show when certain issues are asked. I was even told how I couldn't tweet certain opinions about stuff in the show to the point where I just stayed off talking about the show at all on twitter. As much as this is a show for entertainment, it is also a business made on reputations and garnering support in playing the audience.

So really the fact Reign team didn't see the writing on the wall, when it was clearly there, is just really really absurd.

Maybe they thought if they go ahead and act like a season 5 is coming then that might get the network incentive to give a green light to season 5 so they can properly end the story, yes some shows try to use that tactic to leverage for renewals because networks like selling complete stories, and maybe that's what they tried here but it obviously didn't work to their detriment.

They were given 16 episodes for season 4, there was no reason for them to think they'd get any episodes for season 5 after that. They should have planned immediately for possible finale material instead of setting up a whole bunch of new storylines never resolved. I mean, really, this is not the first show to get last minute decisions on renewals and cancellation news and having to be ready with a finale that could work either way. This is why this finale is particularly frustrating to me and why I simply don't buy the excuses dolled out. Other shows have walked this same path and delivered just fine under the same or even more unfavorable circumstances.

I don't mean to sound harsh about it but it's just really upsetting me that this show I really loved and thought had such a huge potential to do something really great goes out in a way that's just absolutely disappointing to me and smacks of bad show management. Especially when this cast delivers every week. I didn't want this finale to just end feeling "meh" yet that's what it ended up feeling like.
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:23 AM
  #66
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There were numerous social media posts from cast and crew that pretty much tells you they had no idea. They did know it was a possibility...but not a given.

The Originals had the exact same thing happen and they were picked up. So why would a cut episode order or a push back mean anything final?

Why would thwy have mentioned a possible 8 epiaode wrap up....tbat seems awfully specific since its an uncommon number....sounds more to me like then network gave them hope and then screwed them over.


Also keri, I know they weren actually her last words...but being pressed for time it would have been a bit more powerful in that moment.
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:42 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotDoneAbusingYou (View Post)
There were numerous social media posts from cast and crew that pretty much tells you they had no idea. They did know it was a possibility...but not a given.

The Originals had the exact same thing happen and they were picked up. So why would a cut episode order or a push back mean anything final?

Why would thwy have mentioned a possible 8 epiaode wrap up....tbat seems awfully specific since its an uncommon number....sounds more to me like then network gave them hope and then screwed them over.
That's the impression that I got, too. Just because they got a cut episode order doesn't mean anything was certain or final. No one was absurd for hoping that they would at least get enough time to wrap things up properly. Everyone worked really hard on Season 4, and IMO, it was one of the best. They had every reason to feel proud of it and feel optimistic.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:19 AM
  #68
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Quote:
There's no way they didn't know, and if they didn't, then they were arrogant and overly optimistic, which isn't any better, because getting a 16 episode season should have sent all the alarm bells to be ready for cancellation - season 4 was already a miracle renew in itself, season 5 should have been a pipe dream at best, not any level of certainty.

I don't blame the network one bit on this. This is all on the showrunners and production team
I don't get why you are so intent on blaming the showrunners and production teams for this when basically everyone on the show laid out what happened. So they are all lying jerks? Ok. It's not like they were angerly blaming the network either, they were just telling everyone exactly what happened and everything we saw supports it. They were given a S4, they were probably going to get a S5 with 8 episodes. But just in case that changed they were told to write a series finale...only to be cancelled mid shooting the finale.

Not sure what you wanted them to do. Hard to write S4 as the final season when you are told there's a good chance you might get a S5. The showrunners and producers wanted to give the show closure as much as we wanted to see it in full.

I get being upset, it wasn't my total ideal ending either but all this anger at the show seems so misplaced.

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Old 06-20-2017, 10:49 AM
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I am somewhere in the middle. I get that networks lead cast/crews on, but I think they should have had an alternative ending to S4 just in case. Its always good to be prepared.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
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I am somewhere in the middle. I get that networks lead cast/crews on, but I think they should have had an alternative ending to S4 just in case. Its always good to be prepared.
But they did have an alternate ending. Had the show continued it would have keft off with Mary arrested and not executed.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:51 PM
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But they did have an alternate ending. Had the show continued it would have keft off with Mary arrested and not executed.
I meant with all the characters.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:19 PM
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^ I figured that's what you meant. The thing is... they were already halfway done with filming when they got the news. Some of the actors had even wrapped for the season. Even if they did have alternate endings planned for the other characters, they would not have had the chance to start over from the beginning and film them. I assume they weren't given the time (or the budget) to reshoot what was already done or add additional scenes. They had to work with what they had already shot for the episode - which was obviously meant to set up Season 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottish_Queen (View Post)
I don't get why you are so intent on blaming the showrunners and production teams for this when basically everyone on the show laid out what happened. So they are all lying jerks? Ok. It's not like they were angerly blaming the network either, they were just telling everyone exactly what happened and everything we saw supports it. They were given a S4, they were probably going to get a S5 with 8 episodes. But just in case that changed they were told to write a series finale...only to be cancelled mid shooting the finale.

Not sure what you wanted them to do. Hard to write S4 as the final season when you are told there's a good chance you might get a S5. The showrunners and producers wanted to give the show closure as much as we wanted to see it in full.

I get being upset, it wasn't my total ideal ending either but all this anger at the show seems so misplaced.
Very well said.
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:03 PM
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I'm just going to say this and move on.

I didn't call anyone lying jerks, so don't put words in my mouth.

I'm simply saying that this is a common tactic used by cast/crew/showrunners to smooth over any possible backlash. It is not the first time a show team has done it and it won't be the last. It has nothing to do with anyone being lying jerks but simply it is the business and that's what they'd have been told to do. Fans naturally will want to side with the show they love and networks get the blame and that's fine because networks get blamed all the time so they don't care and the show gets the nice warm send off by fans. It's win win for everyone.

The reaction here is proof that it works.

I am suspect of this show and this showrunning staff because it has a history of ill-planning and tendency to forget plots and characters at the drop of a hat and never give resolution and the finale was the worst offender of it, a culmination of all the show's worst ill-planned tendencies coming to life.

Maybe they were caught off guard, maybe they did the best they could, but a team with a stronger history of good planning and steady storylines would have done better and that is a blight against this showrunning team whose questionable record now with bad circumstances only ends up highlighting the worst.
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:07 PM
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I also think a lot of CW showrunners tend to waste time and don't know how to pace things. Always hoping for best and not preparing for the worst. Personally, I think it would have been wise to not leave things as up in the air with the other characters cancellation or not. But, with that said, I enjoyed the finale and was glad to get the wrap up I did for FM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:42 PM
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That's a problem with most network television showrunners. They can never get the pacing for a season done right. That 22 episode number is too hard to sustain one single story so things either get dragged out or story just loses momentum mid way.

Very few shows have been able to find smart ways to structure stories that can sustain full seasons, and the shows that have done it smartly does it through mini arcs split between a number of episodes.
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