ale-la-pazza1

I might need time to recover from this episode.

Too much.

firewall

Premise of the show, right here. And, they are illustrating it beautifully.

lemon tart

I know. Killing me dead with every new episode. Damn they are awesome.

MsDeme70

YES! Favorite other scenes of the episode!** This family unit is the 2nd most important aspect of the show.

**Frary are in a class all by themselves.

Beawild

I can't wait to see this episode tonight. I read that Catherine asks for Penelope's help???? What is that about???? I thought that we had seen the last of her (and thank goodness for that). She's back?

sourburst

I loved the whole Henry claiming war plot! It makes this show interesting beyond character drama. The F/M kiss goodbye was so beautiful. The fact she called him darling in bed, got me all fluffy inside. I don't like what Mary said to him though. Their marriage was a mistake yes, but not an awful mistake. Fair enough, she's always put second and always neglected, but even though she was tricked into it, she cared for him at the time. So awful? I think not. Their final moments was so romantic though.

Greer and Castleroy are so freaking cute and I'm glad he told her father he didn't want the money I have so much respect for Peppercorn now Greer's father was a douche. Peppercorn looks a lot different in this episode I loved their kiss so much

Kenna and Bash gets even more repulsive every episode. The fact they're trying to have sex is one repulsive thing, but to be discussing other partner's and the fact Sebastian had sex with her because of Mary. It put my right off. I think these two could actually drive me away from the show. I seriously think it is so wrong. I really emotionally and physically can not build a bridge and get over it.

Also, this was an episode centered around sex and for once Henry wasn't part of it.

Regbo Girl

So true

Your icon, Theo

lemon tart

I don't think you understood what she said to him. I loved it so much it's not even funny, and I don't think anyone on this board would doubt my status as a Mary & Francis shipper. Rachel's either, who also loved it, see up thread.

What she said is similar to what Francis said to her in the pilot and Francis got that.

And it is, because both have too many other things that duty dictates have to come first. But she's ignored all of that and followed her heart to marry Francis, which is the most complicated choice she could have made. She married him for love, but in that choice there is a great cost for her - and them.

She's SAYING that had she chosen differently it would be easier for her. Because then nothing else would ever compete with Scotland for her heart. Scotland would always be first and an easy choice with anyone else. Because she hasn't ever - will never - love anyone the ways she does Francis. Francis and her love to him and loyalty to their marriage make her neglect her duty to Scotland.

She's SAYING that she loves Francis more than she loves Scotland and that is a huge problem. That she's put him - and them their marriage - above everything else. But she's Scotland's queen and doing that is ultimately wrong.

That scene is the core of Mary & Francis and the entire show. It's beautiful and heartbreaking all at the same time. It's probably my favorite scene of theirs of the entire series.

firewall

I'm not sure you really hear what Mary was saying in that scene? She wasn't saying that her marriage was an awful mistake because she's unhappy with her husband, she is very clearly saying the opposite. She is saying that she chose LOVE over duty and that was her mistake. She specifically says that she could have made secret deals or won favors for DUTY but instead she chose love and that made her stay with Francis, despite all his initial warnings that THIS EXACT SITUATION would arise. That, as rulers, no matter how much they love each other and how much they desire to put their own happiness first (and their spouse's happiness) that is simply not an option sometimes. Not unless they want to fail at being King and Queen, and we can see plainly that neither of them do.

Mary even admits that she *knows* Francis does not "only think of France" merely that he must do what she wants to do for Scotland-- ensure her safety, freedom and wellbeing, above all else. She does not feel neglected because of this, she empathizes with it. She wants him to do what he must do, she knows why he must do it and she forgives him (verbatim) for it, she only hopes he can forgive her for doing the same.

To misunderstand this moment is to misunderstand the premise of the show, which was presented in the pilot, by Francis. Now Mary and Francis have reversed roles. She finally, truly understands what he was warning her about, but it's too late. They have both fallen in love in a way that cannot and will not be erased.

As has been the case with MF from day 1, their marriage is complicated by their LOVE for each other, not for lack of it.

God, it's so beautiful I could cry. Maybe I am crying. Don't look at me. *wipes tears profusely*

McQueenFanGirl

I really liked this episode.

Peppercorn is so sweet and the way he repeatedly stands up for Greer is good to see. It almost makes me consider that I would be okay if Leith and Greer don't become an item again. I don't want poor Peppercorn to be heartbroken.

Gotta love how Catherine is always able to turn things around for herself. Keep your friends close and enemies closer. The way she set a trap for Penelope to come begging for her help was expert.

Liked all the Catherine, Francis and Henry scenes. I think I'm one of the few who has never been annoyed/not entertained by this mad king Henry story, and to see that it has brought him closer to Francis is really good.

Francis is finally coming into his own. Since the last episode when he started to think more for himself and not tied to only Mary's whims, it's been a breath of fresh air. Certainly goes a long way to liking the character more. Granted, using Mary's resources when she needed the army was an irritant move, it was necessary and it's conflicts like that that will sustain my interest in the character.

Meh. I still can't connect with Mary/Francis, so most of their moments were lost on me.

Kenna and Bash were getting to me, but then Bash just had to see M/F kissing and want to have sex with his wife after that. Ugh. Kinda lessened the meaning of the scene. But it was nice to have Kenna notice that something wasn't right, and assert how she feels/call him out.

Lastly, while I'm liking Kenna and Bash, I can’t take another story with Bash’s character getting lost inside another love story. The same thing happened with Mary. He would only have scenes with her and almost everything between them was about her issues. Do not repeat the same mistake with Kenna.

Within the span of this episode, Bash was with Kenna the whole time, which is okay once in a while, but the writers should not make a habit of it. I wanted to know if Bash went to fight with his dad and Francis, or why he wasn't in on any of the attempts to temper Henry’s erratic behaviour? So anyway, my point again was this… don’t lose/miss out on developing Bash’s characterization because he’s in a romantic storyline.

ds44

I think you are misinterpreting the comment. She said it was a mistake politically because francis would always need to prioritize france over scotland. She said she chose him for love. She wasnt tricked into it at all. But neither francis nor mary can put their countries last at the time. What mary can't see do to her high emotions is that getting calais back in french hands would strengthen france and scotland especially considering calais is right on the border and would help further secure scotland. But I get why she is upset. She knows francis must for whats right for his people but what mary needs to do is think strategically snd realize the alliance can work in her favor.

eta: sorry for the repetition jade

ale-la-pazza1

You nailed it.

Why should be repulsive that they were trying to have sex? They are married, they are young, they are attracted to each other, what's the harm?
I thought it was very sweet of Bash to make the experience all about Kenna to be sure she had a pleasant one to think about. I think they are trying to be THE person for each other, they are not there yet but they sure as hell are trying.

drunkalice

I hate coming over just to strike back in defense of my ships as if I didn't care about the rest, but I have to say something about this. I don't see what's repulsive about two people who have been married for about like two months deciding to discuss sex and even have some, especially since they agreed to try and make the marriage work.
Moreover, they didn't talk about Henry as in some sick form of perversion, they mentioned him because Bash thought she might have bad memories. He was actually so respectful it was touching.
Finally, Bash rushing to have sex with Kenna because of Mary. Maybe. Or maybe he realized there's no way he'll ever have Mary and it was time to move on. While I agree the thing was unclear (apparently not to Kenna, though), I'm not sure I can put a finger on it until it's dealt with in the next episode or whenever they like.
TBH I think we saw worse thing to feel disgusted about.

ale-la-pazza1

Yes, I feel the same way!

b4dark

Mary is out of the tower? Already? *bummed* I can't tell if this episode was awesome or just weird. Some scenes were great. So many thing happened stuffed between the never ending triangle Scotland, England, France. I miss the beginning of the show, when they were more carefree, Mary/Francis scenes are so intense now. When Mary asked her husband teary eyed to promise two things it was so beautiful.

Leith who? Lord Castleroy won my heart over and over, though a bit of a fairy tale like but unless something happens to him, I would hate if Greer returned to Leith. I think she is falling for him and I am totally on board, her father on the contrary ugh what a disgusting man.

Penelope needs to go sit somewhere. Preferably in hell.

At first, I thought the KB sex scenes came (excuse my pun) a bit out of nowhere, because they were so disconnected from the intensity of the rest of the episode-- I’m always thankful for shirtless Bash so… . The show still moves at warp speed but it was nice to have acknowledgement that Mary was still on his mind, but did the last scene with Kenna mean they had both decided to move on? It was a bit hard to focus on what Kenna was saying . Then I've realized what bothered me really was THIS:

So Kenna really took Diane's place: before Mary, Bash only had scene with his mother this better stop ! Also, it would have been smarter to have him go to war instead of Francis I know they have 2 spare (Charles and Henri) but it is so stupid to have THE DAUPHIN of all people risks his life.

Henry is annoying, but Alan makes him amazing, NO TROUSERS?! I don't know How Toby and Megan managed to keep a straight face during that scene. Was the real Henry II really that horrible with the Mary Stuart? I don’t think so, it’s cringe worthy sometime. But the Valois-de Medici teaming up was made of awesome.

Toby looked pretty hot in his first confrontation with Mary’s uncle, whom looked pretty awesome himself; is he supposed to be the same person as in ep 3/4? Or another uncle de Guise?

The show at least is getting closer to real History since during Francis’ short reign he was under the de Guise’s thumb.

Last but not least, can we take a moment to praise Reign boys? Seems Francis and Bash both know how to use their tongue.