sourburst

The hallways scene is everything

NotDoneAbusingYou

It certainly was hot.

kerbear28

Well, since we're talking about it.

Sidenote: Ade is like really good at acting turned on. And I can't believe I missed her removing his belt!











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NotDoneAbusingYou

Well, she probably doesn't have to act too much, look at the guys she's been given to work with...

kerbear28

hehe Poor Ade. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it.

kerbear28

They really had some intense moments in this episode. There was hope in the end, though... Darnley is TRYING... and knows he's going to be a dad!!







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NotDoneAbusingYou

I just don't understand why she is holding one mistake against him so hard. Like how much of a hypocrite can you be?

kerbear28

Exactly. She of all people knows the guilt and pain that comes from being on the other side of an affair. And she also knows what it's like to lose the love of your life. You'd think that she would have a bit more compassion and patience for Darnley's situation. She should at least recognize and appreciate that he is making an effort to make things work between them... and make a real effort herself.

Scottish_Queen

It's not just one mistake though. The breaking of trust with cheating is tough enough to overcome but on top of that he also conspired with the Vatican behind her back right after that. How do you really put your trust in someone like that so soon after it all happened? And now she also has the heir to the throne to protect so she's going to be even more protective than ever. I can totally see why she's not just like 'hey you've been nice for a few weeks so all is forgiven.'

And she did tell him she wants to forgive and that she wants forgiveness..and that she wants to start over but he blew her off.

So as much as I'd like to see them hurry it up and have some happy moments - I totally get why Mary is so reluctant to trust him. Plus all these other people are in her ear telling her how terrible he is.

I felt bad for him this episode since he's clearly trying, that scene where he overhears James telling Mary she can't trust Darnley at all and to call Bothwell was sad. But again, If I was James, I would be doing the same thing. It takes time to earn trust back.

With all that being said, I thought she finally relented at the end when she trusted him enough to tell him about the baby. Loved that moment, he was so happy. I hope in the next episode these two finally get a few happier moments. With only 6 episodes left there's not a lot of time left for the happy moments...since history stinks so much

NotDoneAbusingYou

Not saying she should completely forgive him all of the sudden, but she isn't even giving him a chance. She shoots him down every time he tries, making it impossible for him to redeem himself and he is trying so hard.

Also, I don't think he actually meant harm with the vatican meeting, he just wants some control over something because she isn't giving him any at all. He should be involved in some of her decisions if they are ever to mend fences.

kerbear28

As for the Vatican meeting, I don't think Darnley really meant any harm, either. I'm sure it looked bad to Mary, but it's not like he was plotting her assassination. He just wanted some control / power / responsibility because Mary is not really trusting him with anything.

No one is saying that she should just forgive everything and trust him completely. She just needs to give him opportunities to redeem himself and slowly earn back her trust. She needs to meet him halfway. For example, her challenge with Lord Hamilton. He handled that situation very well and refused to be provoked by Hamilton, even though he was very upset and insulted. He's trying! Mary just needs to acknowledge that he is capable of stepping up and doing the right thing. And I do think she is beginning to relent... She trusted him enough to tell him about the baby. That was really a sweet moment, and hope that we get a few more before the end.

Scottish_Queen

I guess it depends on your definition of harm. It's true he wasn't plotting her death but he was totally trying to take her power away with the Vatican. I understand why, he's a man, she's a woman, and back then all women were seen as below a man even Queens. He hates having to take orders from his wife but no one would even blink an eye if he was the one telling Mary what to do.

All those men think it's just SO unnatural for a woman to be in power since of course women are dumb and men know everything What did that one idiot Englishman say to right to Elizabeth's face "What good is a woman if she can't reproduce?" I could have never lived back then even though I'd be golden from their standards with one son already and another baby boy on the way Trust is earned and comes in time. Darnley can say he's changed all he wants. We know that he's trying but it's hard for anyone who has been betrayed to just believe the person that betrayed them from words alone. And situations where you can back up words with actions can't be created, they come as life happens which is why it was good that this situation with the Hamilton's happened.

If she wasn't the Queen and if she didn't have a child and a country to protect I think forgivness would be a lot easier. She has so much more than her own heart at stake now. I do think this situation with Lord Hamilton was the perfect opportunity for Darnley to actually show Mary that his actions can back up his words. He's trying to be that better man and she saw that. She would never have told him about the baby if she didn't. That was such a cute scene.

I really loved these two since 4x04 and I hated the fact that it was all ruined by the Keira stuff so I've really been wanting to see these two connect before it all goes to heck.

I'm hopeful we get some good scenes in the next episode since time is running out. They have such a great chemistry whether they are hooking up or fighting, I always love watching them. But man...we've had too many episodes now with only fighting that it really wears you down.

WRITERS, can we PLEASE get at least some happy stuff? Apparently that's hard on this show

kerbear28

Like I said in the Mary/Bothwell thread, we all know that Darnley is ambitious and wants power. But I don't think he has ever shown himself to be a misogynist who doesn't believe a woman is fit to rule. (I thank GOD that I didn't live back then, either. Seriously, those guys are such idiots. ) Darnley clearly doesn't like to be emasculated, but I want to believe that he would be content to share power with Mary and rule by her side. If Mary had given him more hope that one day he could be her true partner, perhaps he would not have been tempted to take that meeting with the Vatican. I just meant that I don't think he went into that meeting with a malicious intent.

BTW, Congratulations on having another baby boy on the way! That's amazing.

IMO, finding a way to forgive Darnley and make things work with him is the BEST possible way for Mary to protect herself, her child and her country's future - even though I understand how difficult it is for her. Putting all of her trust in another man.... THAT is dangerous.

I was so happy that the Hamilton situation came up, and Darnley was able to SHOW Mary that he is trying to be a better man - with his actions, not just his words. Obviously it registered for Mary, and she trusted him enough to tell him about the baby, which was so sweet.

AGREED. Please bring on some of the happy stuff before things go to heck and we run out of time.

Scottish_Queen

Darnley is the one that broke all the trust and Mary didn't owe him anything at that point in my opinion. He had done nothing at that point to regain her trust. She even told him she wanted to forgive and that she wanted forgiveness and you heard him...he was basically like 'fat chance of that.'

Prior to Keira, the Vatican, and the drunken wedding she had been more than ready to give him her heart and to jointly rule as partners. He screwed up, he knows that and he's trying to fix it. It just takes time. If the Vatican meeting wasn't malicious then why to go such extremes to hide it from Mary and everyone?


It's ok though, we can agree to disagree. I'm always going to be on Mary's side when it comes to Darnley. I really enjoy him but I don't trust him at all. He's weak and easily manipulated. I always sympathize with the woman

Thank you

NotDoneAbusingYou

I don't see him as having broken any trust. He dis everything he said he would and more than made up for the Keira mess. He broke it off with Keira immediately just as he said he would and spent days at a jewler making her a special gift to show his comitment. And as I said before, that's no different that Francis being with Olivia when he was engaged to Mary and no one thought he was a traitor because of it. And he inly went to the Vatican meeting AFTER Mary basically said she'd never love him and diallowed him yo help with any major decisions. Darnley himself even said he wanted to be PARTNERS. He never said he wanted all the power. Also, in taking the meeting with the Vatican...who says he would gave taken the deal? Mary burst in before we got his response. He just wanted to hear what they had to say. And even if he did take it, it doesn't mean he would yse it to dethrone Mary, just maybe to guve himself aone keverage so that he could have some say.