Against_all_odds

Ttftnt!

Iloverrary

Tftnt

kerbear28

tftnt! Some great posts in this thread already (i'm looking at you Rachel and Laura ) And I love the gifs.

lemon tart

Excellently put, Rachel. Love how you phrased that.

This is so true. And I cringed when Bash said to Mary that she "could be wild" with him, because in the end that's not who Mary needs to be, she's a queen and has to think about how her actions affect her people.

One thing to being this back to Francis & Bash though is the wildness v deliberateness. Is Francis's deliberateness nature or nurture? Because Francis is quite emotional, and when he gets overly emotional he can lash out, like in ep 6. Obviously Bash's wildness is his nature, or I assume it is. But is Francis's more deliberateness his, or is it something he's learned while learning to embrace duty, honor and responsibility.

One reason I posit the question is the various promos for the new ep next week. There's Francis by Mary's side in a room of about 20 men all of whom are armed and a whole lot bigger than our adorably awkward and spindly prince. But there he is striding forward and beginning to draw his sword to challenge all of them and protect his wife, even though he'd likely get cut down in 2 seconds, but he does it anyway. It seems to be just instinctual for him to protect Mary, his wife. Which is different from his usual deliberate nature.

b4dark

I agree with all this post. Bash instinctive nature probably steams from the fact that he had to protect himself all his life, and react fast; I agree this is actually one of the things that was well written.


This is so true.

I also hope the triangle is dead for now, but I think it is a show runner thing to pander both fan bases in the season finale so, let's just hope they don't.

I think it is a matter of urgency, like in ep 8 with the Italian count when instead of fleeing he came back to protect Mary (and his mother too maybe). He reacted very Kingly in the sense that he has to put his people first.

Starlingcity

I don't think it would help having her involved. Having her around Bash just won't help the brothers relationship, Bash brings out that side of Mary - that freedom, like she said he's exhilarating. For them all the be in cahoots would be difficult. Like last episode MB were still doing their thing. After the wedding, their scene. I was nervous Francis would see. If they have their moments in private then fair enough, but there's a good chance Francis will stumble upon moments like that. And he'll not want to reconcile with Bash.

I think the triangle is alive and kicking. And I have no qualms about it, cos fans hype it to no end, so i get why they keep it in. No shipping side has a huge majority lead so they dance. But I think the brothers can work through it despite having an interest in the same girl. It's just about finding the balance. Stefan and Damon made it work I think they can too And I think the writers will try tirelessly to do so. That's why they had their epic blow out now.

I don't think MB will happen again till s2 so this gives Francis and Bash a chance to really build and understand each other and accept how the other feels about Mary. But love one another despite that rivalry.

b4dark

In Torrance words:



Torrance's hair looks really short.

Starlingcity

drunkalice

Beatiful gifs it was a very touching moment, though a longer talk would have been appreciated!

firewall

Exactly where I was going. I left it unsaid, but it's the main point.

I think people are made of nature and nurture; it's impossible to say what Francis or Bash would be like now if their roles had been altered when they were infants. I do think Francis is meant to be like his mother in some respects--calculating and clever, stubborn, devoted. However, unlike Catherine, he is not conniving or murderous. As to the point of him protecting Mary, I think that is instinctual. He told her he would die for her, and I don't think those were just pretty words. He means it. If she is in danger, he will be her shield (or sword). He is rational in all things except his love for her.

The wildness is always in Mary. I don't think Bash brings it out, he just encourages her to run with it. Yet, as a Queen, that is not what she can or should do.

The brothers don't have the interest in the same girl. Bash covets his brothers' wife. There is a big difference. This show is not TVD, these people are not teenaged vampires who have centuries to decide who they love, these are medieval catholics who are married. If Bash goes after his brother's wife, it's not acceptable. It's not "all's fair in love and war." The war is over and Francis is the victor-- Mary chose him to be her husband and to be faithful to him until death parts them. There is no way that Bash can get in the middle of that without decimating his relationship with Francis, no matter how much rebuilding happens before then. An affair would ruin the FB relationship (and IMO an affair would probably also ruin Mary's character.)

Death. It will part them. And maybe, if the show plans to continue after F's death, Bash will be with Mary without risking his relationship with Francis or Mary having to break her marriage vows.

Ceruleannight

This point I feel many people don't understand. The bolded part especially is something I wish I could make all watchers of the show understand- regardless of who you ship, the dye has been cast.

McQueenFanGirl

Not at all. I want a lot of story between the brothers without Mary's involvement.

kerbear28

Very well said, as always, Rachel. I REALLY wish every viewer of the show understood this.

ds44

Sometimes viewers want they want regardless if it's part of the writers plan/design or if it makes sense. But that isnt just a reign thing it happens eith all shows.

lemon tart

And both of them know the consequences of going that route as well. Don't tell me it's a coincidence that they put Catherine's adultery trial and the sentence of death for treason as a centerpiece of the BoP. The writers knew MB wasn't gonna last, and they went out of their way to show the characters and the audience that them pursuing anything after Mary wed Francis would be life ending. That they had Mary & Bash as pursuers of Catherine made the point doubly so. Mary's final line from ep 11 makes it even more clear - her perfect choice TO KILL YOU! The consequences of adultery against the king are death. Period. The end. And Mary is very well acquainted with said consequences.

And beyond it taking Bash's life and likely ruining Mary as a character - as it goes against every single thing she dreamt of in the pilot for her marriage - it makes no sense in the context of the two relationships and how they've played out on screen. Affairs usually mean passion, but all the passion Mary has is wrapped up in her relationship and attraction to Francis. It's part of why she chose him in the first place.

If Bash pursues Mary after Francis is king, that is punishable by death. So, no she's not a "love interest" for Bash, she's the thing that if he doesn't let her go will destroy his entire life and get him killed. She let him go, because she made the choice she wanted to make from her heart to marry Francis. Bash seems to have finally decided he can accept and respect that.

But I have no doubt it won't go that way. The writers are attempting to rebuild FB, which if Francis didn't BELIEVE Bash when he said he wanted to find something of his own, would not happen. Also, RL Laurie McCarthy the actual person running this show adores the tragic love story of RL Mary & Francis, and her version of Mary & Francis. And the ONLY triangle she's ever used in comparison to her show is Twilight and Bash fits perfectly in the Jacob role, and you can see it built over the series. Triangles are not all TVD, and TVD doesn't fit what Laurie herself has talked about, nor her history as a writer & show runner. And triangles of the TVD variety don't exist in romantic tragedy for a reason. They cheapen the tragedy to the point that it doesn't matter.

I hate that this is even brought up in here, because if it's not obvious by now that Bash's pursuit of Mary isn't poison for FB I don't think you'll get it. It's what destroyed them to begin with, because they never really recovered after ep 5 till now. Francis has granted a Bash a second chance, if Bash continues his pursuit they will be destroyed for good - and Rachel's concept of neither are a villain will prove wrong - and Bash won't be given a third chance, he'll be exiled - the lighter sentence - or killed for treason. Because that's what it is in the time period. They were very clear about that in ep 11-13 where Bash had a front row seat to the whole show.