Reign - Antoine/Kenna #1: "Don't you think that people can be more than their reputations ?" - Page 4

Dolphini · 02-22-2015, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmemandy (View Post)

Yep that's why I hope it will change, because I believe Kenna deserves to be loved not used

actually Bash does love her he is just bad at showing it sometimes. Bash never uses Kenna unlike Antoine is doing now.

***One Thing Remains*** · 02-23-2015, 12:08 AM

thanks for updating the OP Mandy with new art

itsmemandy · 02-23-2015, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolphini (View Post)

actually Bash does love her he is just bad at showing it sometimes. Bash never uses Kenna unlike Antoine is doing now.

I wasn't even talking about Bash here. I was talking about Antoine and the fact that out of all the ladies + Mary, Kenna is the only who was was used by men. Henry used her and made her believe he loved so he can get into her pants, Bash was forced to marry her so he was kind of forced to love her if he wanted to ever be happy and even with that, he's still judgy about the stupidest things and he doesn't treat her right not to mention Antoine who's primarly using her to get revenge on Bash even though he actually fancies her.
Besides, I won't judge her for wanting more, that's what women wanted at the time (a sense of security, a good life, some kind of power) Anne Boleyn was ambitious, she was a social climber who wanted to be queen and most people liked her on the tudors and thought she was a figure of feminism, I don't see how it can be different for Kenna, Why is it so wrong for someone to be ambitious ? and tbh this hypocritical BS about giving up what's make her Kenna "for love" is really annoying, Bash didn't give up ANYTHING for her. I used to like Kennash, but they're boring as f#*k right now. Not to mention the fact that Bash "the loyal wonderful person that he is"

doen't treat her like an equal, he never consults her about anything, he lies to her and doesn't feel remorse about it, he's always in a hurry, he leaves her days, and yes that's an issue, in fact, it's the cause of most divorces right now, I would never want to live a life with a man who's never here, who's married to his job and doesn't care about me the slightest, how can you be with a guy like that ? It's impossible. Tbh, I don't understand why people think he's the poor guy in this situation, if Kenna chooses Antoine, personnaly I'll be cheering because finally Bash will understand how stupid he was all along, and finally Kenna will go back to being the Kenna I actually love.
Not to mention the fact that this can be awesome, Antoine is such an amazing character and he reminds me of Chuck Bass, he's making bad choice but he loves his family, that is why he's doing all this, because the Valois hurted his family and got away with it. I just wish he doesn't hurt Kenna in the process and hopefully fall for her in the long run, I believe they can be a power couple, and I would love for Kenna to be queen.
Also I don't understand the people who judge Antoine and think he will cheat on Kenna. Didn't you notice that he is the exact same person as her ? Like to throw parties, like extravagant stuff, power, not to mention the fact that Kenna is young and beautiful, why would he look elsewhere ? And we didn't actually see him look elsewhere except for Kenna have we ? and it's probably because he's wife is dying and he's miserable in his marriage like Kenna btw. Also, I wanted to add he's no more dangerous than anyone on the show, Catherine, Mary, Henry, Francis, Narcisse, even precious Bash did the same stuff sometimes even worse so...

Keroppi your welcome I hope you like

Dolphini · 02-23-2015, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmemandy (View Post)

I wasn't even talking about Bash here. I was talking about Antoine and the fact that out of all the ladies + Mary, Kenna is the only who was was used by men. Henry used her and made her believe he loved so he can get into her pants, Bash was forced to marry her so he was kind of forced to love her if he wanted to ever be happy and even with that, he's still judgy about the stupidest things and he doesn't treat her right not to mention Antoine who's primarly using her to get revenge on Bash even though he actually fancies her.
Besides, I won't judge her for wanting more, that's what women wanted at the time (a sense of security, a good life, some kind of power) Anne Boleyn was ambitious, she was a social climber who wanted to be queen and most people liked her on the tudors and thought she was a figure of feminism, I don't see how it can be different for Kenna, Why is it so wrong for someone to be ambitious ? and tbh this hypocritical BS about giving up what's make her Kenna "for love" is really annoying, Bash didn't give up ANYTHING for her. I used to like Kennash, but they're boring as f#*k right now. Not to mention the fact that Bash "the loyal wonderful person that he is"

doen't treat her like an equal, he never consults her about anything, he lies to her and doesn't feel remorse about it, he's always in a hurry, he leaves her days, and yes that's an issue, in fact, it's the cause of most divorces right now, I would never want to live a life with a man who's never here, who's married to his job and doesn't care about me the slightest, how can you be with a guy like that ? It's impossible. Tbh, I don't understand why people think he's the poor guy in this situation, if Kenna chooses Antoine, personnaly I'll be cheering because finally Bash will understand how stupid he was all along, and finally Kenna will go back to being the Kenna I actually love.
Not to mention the fact that this can be awesome, Antoine is such an amazing character and he reminds me of Chuck Bass, he's making bad choice but he loves his family, that is why he's doing all this, because the Valois hurted his family and got away with it. I just wish he doesn't hurt Kenna in the process and hopefully fall for her in the long run, I believe they can be a power couple, and I would love for Kenna to be queen.
Also I don't understand the people who judge Antoine and think he will cheat on Kenna. Didn't you notice that he is the exact same person as her ? Like to throw parties, like extravagant stuff, power, not to mention the fact that Kenna is young and beautiful, why would he look elsewhere ? And we didn't actually see him look elsewhere except for Kenna have we ? and it's probably because he's wife is dying and he's miserable in his marriage like Kenna btw. Also, I wanted to add he's no more dangerous than anyone on the show, Catherine, Mary, Henry, Francis, Narcisse, even precious Bash did the same stuff sometimes even worse so...

Keroppi your welcome I hope you like

Maybe you have seen a different show but you make it out that Bash abuses Kenna and thats just a grand exaggeration.
And by the way Bash has to work to make a living and for the both of them. He is trying to get a better life for them but he has his birthright limits. He actually has to work hard.
You seem to glorify adultery that if something better comes along yeah sure take it. Thats not how marriage and comminttment work. You go through the good and the bad as a couple and dont sway at the first chance for a better position. Thats just weak character that is bound to get abused as was and maybe now again is Kennas destination.
Cheating is for the weak and at least in my mind Bashs actions in no way warrant her behaviour so yes he is the poor guy who may get left because he is not powerful enough.
Again he has made mistakes in not communicating enough but the same can be said about Kenna. She doesnt tell him everything either.
Bash has morals and values and wants the greater good. You m ock that which i find kind of sad. You may not like him but at least one can respect that his motivation doesnt come from a bad place unlike narcissictic people like Antoine.
Anyone who has seen him doing this while his wife is still alive and the way he talks about her is just disgusting to me.
If you think he will ride into the sunset and play happy couple with Kenna i cant see that happening at all.

itsmemandy · 02-23-2015, 09:48 PM

It's not adultery if the kennash marriage is annulled, if she marries Antoine and becomes his wife. It's actually another marriage so it's not adultery. I would actually love to see her succeed in marrying Antoine, and if she becomes his wife and ends up cheating on Antoine with Bash, I would love to hear your thoughts about her adultery at that moment since clearly she will be cheating on a narcisstic dangerous man and not on a loyal humble man so perhaps it makes it more okay for you if she cheats on Antoine and not on Bash.

I like Bash from S1, but I like Kenna too, and she's not her true self with him. At least not now. And to be frank Bash's loyalty is a bore and it makes him lack personality. Antoine is far more exciting, but that's just my opinion, please accept that. I understand that you ship Kennash, and that you want Bash to be happy *at the expense of Kenna* but I do not care for his happiness if it undermines the happiness of someone else.
Also, Bash's morals ? Ok, so killing people because they saw too much or heard too much is moral ? Lying to your wife without showing any remorse is moral ? framing people is moral ?

Antoine is not narcissistic. I don't know if you actually paid some attention to the show, but the Valois family killed his brother, and they got away with it, it is only logical to seek some kind of revenge. Yes he likes to throw parties and enjoy himself, but should everyone on the show be pining in misery ? Kenna likes parties as well, she wants a good life, she wants love and jewels and riches and power, why do you judge her for that ?
Also, I do not even understand why you call him a narcissistic person, give me arguments, please by all means perhaps you will change my thoughts on the subject.

Bash isn't doing his job for both him and Kenna. He's doing his job for him and for his brother, because those two matter more to him than his wife's happiness. Have you not realise that she's unhappy ? Do you want Kenna to be miserable just because you want her to be something that brings joy to one of the leads/fan favorites ? Because to be honest that's the only explanation. Kenna didn't just move on the moment they started having issues in their marriage. She tried, she's been here for him, many times, she has supported him and been a loyal wife, waited for him, took care of him when he came to her wounded. All he did was leave her alone even more, lie to her about his sister and he actually let her believe that it was because she was the king's cast of mistress that Claude didn't want to talk to her, do you just realise how insecure she must have felt ? She gets to be called the king's whore everyday because her husband lacks in station and when he finally had the chance to make people respect her, he chose to refuse the Duchy without even consulting her because apparently his loyalty to his brother matters a lot more.

Also, I'm not expecting them to play house together, this is a drama show

I want drama. I expect some build up of the relationship, maybe some scheming, awkward moments with Bash, problems with the rule, the fact that he wants revenge against the Valois and Kenna's ties to that family, it's actually more interesting of an sl than having Kenna waiting for loyal Bash to come home and stop judging her for who she is. It's a more interesting sl than having Kenna live happily ever after with Bash. Antoine and Kenna can be the next Anne Boleyn and Henri Tudor, and though it was a tragic story it was a beautiful one.

ETA I understand your take on marriage, but when you're the only one trying to be in a better place it gets tiring and eventually you just give up, and if you're unhappy with someone, especially when there's no kids yet, my advice is to get a divorce or an annullement, because that's how you'll stay sane, and that's how you can be happy. There's no point in being miserable and wasting your time on someone who doesn't make any effort, and Bash doesn't make any effort.

Dolphini · 02-23-2015, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmemandy (View Post)

It's not adultery if the kennash marriage is annulled, if she marries Antoine and becomes his wife. It's actually another marriage so it's not adultery. I would actually love to see her succeed in marrying Antoine, and if she becomes his wife and ends up cheating on Antoine with Bash, I would love to hear your thoughts about her adultery at that moment since clearly she will be cheating on a narcisstic dangerous man and not on a loyal humble man so perhaps it makes it more okay for you if she cheats on Antoine and not on Bash.

I like Bash from S1, but I like Kenna too, and she's not her true self with him. At least not now. And to be frank Bash's loyalty is a bore and it makes him lack personality. Antoine is far more exciting, but that's just my opinion, please accept that. I understand that you ship Kennash, and that you want Bash to be happy *at the expense of Kenna* but I do not care for his happiness if it undermines the happiness of someone else.
Also, Bash's morals ? Ok, so killing people because they saw too much or heard too much is moral ? Lying to your wife without showing any remorse is moral ? framing people is moral ?

Antoine is not narcissistic. I don't know if you actually paid some attention to the show, but the Valois family killed his brother, and they got away with it, it is only logical to seek some kind of revenge. Yes he likes to throw parties and enjoy himself, but should everyone on the show be pining in misery ? Kenna likes parties as well, she wants a good life, she wants love and jewels and riches and power, why do you judge her for that ?
Also, I do not even understand why you call him a narcissistic person, give me arguments, please by all means perhaps you will change my thoughts on the subject.

Bash isn't doing his job for both him and Kenna. He's doing his job for him and for his brother, because those two matter more to him than his wife's happiness. Have you not realise that she's unhappy ? Do you want Kenna to be miserable just because you want her to be something that brings joy to one of the leads/fan favorites ? Because to be honest that's the only explanation. Kenna didn't just move on the moment they started having issues in their marriage. She tried, she's been here for him, many times, she has supported him and been a loyal wife, waited for him, took care of him when he came to her wounded. All he did was leave her alone even more, lie to her about his sister and he actually let her believe that it was because she was the king's cast of mistress that Claude didn't want to talk to her, do you just realise how insecure she must have felt ? She gets to be called the king's whore everyday because her husband lacks in station and when he finally had the chance to make people respect her, he chose to refuse the Duchy without even consulting her because apparently his loyalty to his brother matters a lot more.

Also, I'm not expecting them to play house together, this is a drama show

I want drama. I expect some build up of the relationship, maybe some scheming, awkward moments with Bash, problems with the rule, the fact that he wants revenge against the Valois and Kenna's ties to that family, it's actually more interesting of an sl than having Kenna waiting for loyal Bash to come home and stop judging her for who she is. It's a more interesting sl than having Kenna live happily ever after with Bash. Antoine and Kenna can be the next Anne Boleyn and Henri Tudor, and though it was a tragic story it was a beautiful one.

to even compare Kenna /Antoine to Anne Bolyn and Tudor is so way off.
And you find Bash boring , others dont. I found their story one of the best in Reign.
Everyone has a right to their opinions and my opinion of Antoine is very very low. Bash did things on orders , his brothers or fathers. Does that make him a bad person ? I dont think so. Especially in a time of war. Yes he kept things from Kenna but so did she and basically everyone on Reign does the same.
I just hate the notion that instead of solvong problems in a marriage you just give up and run away from the problems. Thats a cowards way out.
We all saw the progress Kenna made after being si gullible to be used by the mad king. She became strong and loyal. Now she just falls into her old patterns of striving for relevance and power which i just find sad. And i dont want Bash to be happy at the expense of Kenna but have them work out their stuff together. Thats not far fetched and could easily be achieved but now Kennas actions might have made that impossible.
As to Antoine he is as self absorbed as it gets. Didnt you catch how he speaks about his sick wife ? No compassion .. nothing. Wanting to break up a marriag for his own "fun" is as low as it gets.

itsmemandy · 02-23-2015, 10:28 PM

You're entitled to your personal opinion and I respect it as I hope you'll respect mine. I shipped Kennash for a long time but now, I just had enough, and Antoine is much better than Bash in my opinion.
Bash takes his orders from his father and brother, king... That makes him a puppet and that's actually one of the reason I dislike him because he does everything Francis tells him to do, without questionning it, and that just proves how much he lacks of personality, which makes him boring in my opinion. ( Like I said before feel free to disagree)

Also, I asked you earlier: if Kenna ends up marrying Antoine, would you be as upset if she cheats on him with Bash ? Or is it just because you don't want her with Antoine ? And this whole "cheating is bad" is just an excuse to make it bad for her to go for Antoine ?

About Antoine being a narcissistic sociopath :

He seemed sad when he spoke about his wife to Conde, he seemed hurt that she didn't want him by her side in the end. You could clearly see it in his face that he didn't want to talk about it because he was hurt and besides, their marriage is falling apart.
He doesn't want to break up a marriage for his own fun. Bash is the man who killed his brother. If you were in front the murderer of your brother/close one what will you do ? How will you react ? Especially if he got away with it ? Wouldn't you want revenge ? It's a normal thing, it's not being narcissistic.

About Kantoine

I do not pretend to know that these two will be a canon thing, I don't even know if she will consider his offer, but what I do know is that they have potential and I would like for them to be together because they are alike, like it or not.

About Kenna becoming strong and loyal

Kenna is morally grey. She's ambitious, naive, selfcentered, perceptive, loyal, caring, a skilled manipulator, a seductress...
She is so many things. You can't just want her to fit in a box just to serve the purpose of one character. It doesn't make sense. They're not using Kenna at her full advantage, they're only using the good sides, to make us believe that she changed for love to be a better person. But isn't marriage made of compromises ? Why didn't Bash change ?

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Thats not far fetched and could easily be achieved but now Kennas actions might have made that impossible.

Kenna's actions ? For now, she has done nothing and nothing has changed. It's been months now that Bash is disappearing, and he didn't change a thing even though he knows she's unhappy, so no it's not Kenna's actions that made it impossible it's Bash's.

I understand your take on marriage, but when you're the only one trying to be in a better place it gets tiring and eventually you just give up, and if you're unhappy with someone, especially when there's no kids yet, my advice is to get a divorce or an annullement, because that's how you'll stay sane, and that's how you can be happy. There's no point in being miserable and wasting your time on someone who doesn't make any effort, and Bash doesn't make any effort.
Also, it's not being a coward to take the way out. It actually takes courage to do so, she admitted to herself, that it's over, Bash and her are just too different, he doesn't make her happy, she wants more, so she's finding a way out. What's the problem with that ?
Besides, I mentionned before that Kenna didn't just bail of him at the first mention of marital discord. She really tried, but like any other person she has her limits.

Dolphini · 02-23-2015, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmemandy (View Post)

You're entitled to your personal opinion and I respect it as I hope you'll respect mine. I shipped Kennash for a long time but now, I just had enough, and Antoine is much better than Bash in my opinion.
Bash takes his orders from his father and brother, king... That makes him a puppet and that's actually one of the reason I dislike him because he does everything Francis tells him to do, without questionning it, and that just proves how much he lacks of personality, which makes him boring in my opinion. ( Like I said before feel free to disagree)

Also, I asked you earlier: if Kenna ends up marrying Antoine, would you be as upset if she cheats on him with Bash ? Or is it just because you don't want her with Antoine ? And this whole "cheating is bad" is just an excuse to make it bad for her to go for Antoine ?

About Antoine being a narcissistic sociopath :

He seemed sad when he spoke about his wife to Conde, he seemed hurt that she didn't want him by her side in the end. You could clearly see it in his face that he didn't want to talk about it because he was hurt and besides, their marriage is falling apart.
He doesn't want to break up a marriage for his own fun. Bash is the man who killed his brother. If you were in front the murderer of your brother/close one what will you do ? How will you react ? Especially if he got away with it ? Wouldn't you want revenge ? It's a normal thing, it's not being narcissistic.

About Kantoine

I do not pretend to know that these two will be a canon thing, I don't even know if she will consider his offer, but what I do know is that they have potential and I would like for them to be together because they are alike, like it or not.

About Kenna becoming strong and loyal

Kenna is morally grey. She's ambitious, naive, selfcentered, perceptive, loyal, caring, a skilled manipulator, a seductress...
She is so many things. You can't just want her to fit in a box just to serve the purpose of one character. It doesn't make sense. They're not using Kenna at her full advantage, they're only using the good sides, to make us believe that she changed for love to be a better person. But isn't marriage made of compromises ? Why didn't Bash change ?

Kenna's actions ? For now, she has done nothing and nothing has changed. It's been months now that Bash is disappearing, and he didn't change a thing even though he knows she's unhappy, so no it's not Kenna's actions that made it impossible it's Bash's.

I understand your take on marriage, but when you're the only one trying to be in a better place it gets tiring and eventually you just give up, and if you're unhappy with someone, especially when there's no kids yet, my advice is to get a divorce or an annullement, because that's how you'll stay sane, and that's how you can be happy. There's no point in being miserable and wasting your time on someone who doesn't make any effort, and Bash doesn't make any effort.
Also, it's not being a coward to take the way out. It actually takes courage to do so, she admitted to herself, that it's over, Bash and her are just too different, he doesn't make her happy, she wants more, so she's finding a way out. What's the problem with that ?
Besides, I mentionned before that Kenna didn't just bail of him at the first mention of marital discord. She really tried, but like any other person she has her limits.

I guess we will just have to agree to disdagree.
This hypothetical about Kenna cheating on Antoine with Bash is so far fetched. No it wouldnt be OK. You dont cheat if you love someone as Kenna claims she does love Bash. As for her not doing anything ? Really ? She knew that her hanging around Antoine was trouble and would hurt Bash yet she chose to do it anyway and throw his party and get dressed up , dance and laugh with the man Bash know wants to hurt him. Of course thats not OK.

I guess our fundamental difference is that you see Bashs behavious towards Kenna way worse than i do. I see problems but nothing that could easily be solved between people that love each other.

As for Bash , he disagrees with Francis MANY times on how about to do things. To paint him as a charaterless puppet is just insulting. I get it that you dont like him but thats just taking it too far.

itsmemandy · 02-23-2015, 11:04 PM

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As for her not doing anything ? Really ? She knew that her hanging around Antoine was trouble and would hurt Bash yet she chose to do it anyway and throw his party and get dressed up , dance and laugh with the man Bash know wants to hurt him. Of course thats not OK.

She planned a party, and had some fun because her husband didn't show up for her again. She didn't know Antoine didn't send the letter, she thought Bash bailed on her like he usually do. And she likes parties and she wants to have fun. Would you rather have her at home waiting for her husband like a miserable housewife ? It's a pretty depressing life no matter how much you love the man. Bash doesn't care about Kenna being upset, or sad or angry. Didn't he hug Claude the other day ? the sister whom he slept with ? the woman who is endlessly pursuing him knowing that it would hurt Kenna if she knew ? Didn't he actually mentionned their past saying "That's why I was drawn to you when we were children." And you're here blaming Kenna for spending time with Antoine ?

Anyway, I disagree with you on that.

Quote:

I guess our fundamental difference is that you see Bashs behavious towards Kenna way worse than i do. I see problems but nothing that could easily be solved between people that love each other.

Tbh, I'm like so sure if ANY woman here had her husband lie to her repeatedly about his affairs, about a sexual relationship with his younger sister (which would be enough reason to call it a day) + If she was left alone for weeks without even knowing when her husband will return, without a call or anything because he was at work... I'm 100% sure the marriage will end on a divorce. Kenna is actually really patient with Bash, I'm not sure you realise how screwed up this is.

Quote:

As for Bash , he disagrees with Francis MANY times on how about to do things. To paint him as a charaterless puppet is just insulting. I get it that you dont like him but thats just taking it too far.

Maybe last season, but definitely not this season. He sometimes voice his opinion, but if Francis disagrees, he nods and do the dirty work. So it might be insulting, but it's the truth. He's a robot, a servant meant to do Francis' dirty work. And it's really not taking it too far, because I know even Bash fans noticed it.

itsmemandy · 02-27-2015, 08:13 AM

Iquitefancyyou · 03-01-2015, 08:35 PM

Add me please

I love them together. I hope Antoine falls for Kenna.

itsmemandy · 03-01-2015, 08:46 PM

Welcome to the thread

You have been added !

I hope he falls for her as well, they would make such an awesome couple, they're so cute together

***One Thing Remains*** · 03-01-2015, 09:22 PM

Welcome Iquitefancyyou

So glad that you joined us

Iquitefancyyou · 03-01-2015, 09:30 PM

Thanks for the welcome

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsmemandy (View Post)

I hope he falls for her as well, they would make such an awesome couple, they're so cute together

Ikr?! they are super cute together. This is the first ship with Kenna that I like so far. I know Antoine is not in love with her, but I believe he does feel an attraction to her. I've never liked Kenna/Henry or Kenna/Bash, but the moment I saw Antoine and Kenna together I fell in love with them.

itsmemandy · 03-01-2015, 09:39 PM

I actually shipped Kenna with everyone, and not too long ago, I shipped her with Bash, but he's been acting weird, and I realised that they're just too different and he just can't make her happy, I doubt he can make anyone happy because he's basically married to his job

, and her relationship with Bash changed her so much into a goody goody character, and I think that's a shame because Kenna is not supposed to be good, she's a layered character, and I just love that Antoine brings that side of her, I know that he's using her, but I have some hope that it will be a lot more meaningful in time. Besides, Antoine and Kenna are so similar in a freaky way, seriously even their smile are the same. I have a feeling the writers did that on purpose, they have so much in common that's why I believe they can develop into something more in time.
There's just something about them

They're just so cute and the way he looks at her is

I have no words

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Reign > Antoine/Kenna #1: "Don't you think that people can be more than their reputations ?"