mina_lp

Hope you had great one too Keri

Aw that gifset is beautiful and sad at the same time

Nice to see you in here Kate and, I can imagine how hard balancing work and parenthood can be, I mean when I used to work, I always had a hard time balancing work and the other stuff in my life, I usually failed at it (despite being single), lol.

Thoughts on 3.01:
Ah, the pure bliss and joy of the opening scene, was just like a breath of fresh air (after that awful tough season, lol) Everything about it was so beautiful and refreshing; from the pretty scenery, to Mary dancing with ladies and then seeing Francis coming to her and happily rushing to him, the kiss, the forehead touch and their beautiful smiles Btw, the gorgeous scenery, Frary wearing white and looking like angels and them being so joyful and happy, made the whole thing feel like heaven ( it's definitely one my favorite scenes)

Then of course Frary sexy time Ok Now while I obviously did enjoy their sexy time, but my favorite part of it was actually the way they looked at each other with complete adoration (yes, I guess I'm such a "girl" in these matters, lol), especially Francis; as if he wanted to cherish her and carve her face in his memory (especially considering he knew he didn't have much time left).

And, the "boat" scene Francis saying "shall we go back to bed?" and his smile after it, was priceless of course Mary was all "wtf" about his behavior because he was always the man who cared so much about his responsibilities (to his loved ones and his country), and now it seemed as if he only cared about building boat and making love, lol (poor Mary didn't know what was going on with him ). Anyway I loved that he emphasized those are important (even though Mary didn't quite get what he meant at the time), and also loved how after the kiss, they just stood still with their eyes closed, as if they wanted to breathe each other in and stay at complete peace while holding each other

Loved Frary's costume in the scene that they were welcoming the pirates, they looked gorgeous So did that tiger btw

Ok now we get to the sad parts: it broke my heart when Francis told Lola: "I don't want John growing up believing Narcisse is what a man should be"

And next Frary scene; Francis getting anxious and finally being forced to tell Mary the truth: "because you won't have the king of France", and she just froze without any reaction, as if saying something would make it real and force her to face the truth and Francis explaining more about what doctors had told him and finishing with: "[the pain] has returned". Mary's reaction killed me here; getting teary eyed and saying: "no, they're wrong", like she wanted to deny it so badly Then Francis sorta losing it too and saying: "....I can not abandon you unprotected, I can not leave you" and that deep breath after this, like he was really choked up by emotions (btw even in this situation that his own death was near, still he was worrying and thinking about her, if that's not love I don't know what is ). And of course Mary trying to deny the situation again, she desperately wanted to believe that there's a solution to it When Francis stopped her and directly told her twice that he is dying, and hugged her, that was the moment those words hit her hard and she was forced to face the truth and started sobbing in his arms Btw, when she started crying, Francis' facial expressions broke my heart as well; like at first it really pained him (her pain and the fact that she was hurting because of him), then he tried to pull it together for her sake and that determined look came to his face and held her tighter. And as if the whole thing wasn't upsetting enough; in the end Mary kept sobbing and sorta buried her face in his shoulder and grasped him so tightly, like she wanted to hold him forever and prevent him from slipping away ah, I hate this, what can't my babies be happy for at least one whole episode? It's frustrating, and btw damn me for falling for tragic ships, it's not good for my health, lol. On a brighter mote, Tobelaid performance was really great

The chapel scene: I kinda liked the fact that the first thing she did after hearing the news, was praying. Another thing that I liked was how they kept touching each other during this scene Anyway, Francis was so brave and strong; reassuring Mary that she would survive, telling her she doesn't need to think about politics because he had and that he would protect her and France. Just like Mary said; "so strong and perfect", worrying about her when he was dying himself (Btw it was heartbreaking how she couldn't finish this sentence and couldn't bring herself to say the actual words ). I also loved that he said he didn't want her to come back to him out of pity (it once again showed that despite loving Mary so much, he also had self-respect and dignity). Mary's response was lovely too: "Francis, I love you" but more than that I loved the look on Mary's face and the way Adelaide delivered that line, like: don't be ridiculous, I do love you and you know it (even though it wasn't so obvious in the season 2 situation, so Francis' POV and him not telling her sooner was completely understandable but let's not get into that again lol). And finally at the end, him telling her how he wanted to "find the joy in their lives", basically he wanted to be more care free and enjoy his [remained] time (something that he hadn't done much before), and in this moment the boat scene from earlier came full circle and everything started to make sense to Mary. Then them being in the boat together was bittersweet the sad look on Mary's face while she was trying to somewhat smile, was upsetting (which happened again in the scene where they welcomed Charles. Btw this scene felt like sort of a deja vu for me with the scene in S1 that Bash bowed to Francis in hallway after Henry's death but Francis hugged him. of course, the scene in S1 was way more emotional and just pure gold, but I always saw some kind of a parallel with Charls bowing and Francis hugging him).

And speaking of Charles and Francis, I enjoyed their little "archery" scene, though the end of it with Francis experiencing pain was sad, my poor babe

Frary scene and Narcisse scene: I actually loved that the Conde thing from previous season was brought up and it wasn't acted as if it never happened. I also loved Mary's responses to that: "oh, what have I done?" and then calling herself a "sinful queen" with that shameful guilty look on her face (see I would've liked to see these such scenes more, the scenes indicating her remorse/regret because of her actions. Although we got some in the last two epis of S2 and here and also a glimpse of it in the next epi, but comparing to the amount of all those cold and "feeling no remorse" behavior we had to swallow in entire half of S2, these didn't feel enough, lol. But having all that said and also considering how fast the events were happening, I'm glad/grateful for as much as we did get).And most of all I loved what Francis told her: "Mary do not look to the past. I'm not" like he knew how sorry she was, so he didn't allow her to blame and beat herself up for past events. Anyway, at the end of the scene it was sad when Mary said: "soon, I fear, I will have nothing left to lose" (it reminds me of her quote in 3.05: "I've been left with nothing" ) and of course it upset Francis as well.

Finally on a side note; nice trick they pulled on Elizabeth Also one thing I didn't say about 2.22 and sorta got repeated here as well, was the interaction between Catherine and Mary; Mary preaching Catherine about betraying France/his son and all that, always seemed a bit hypocritical to me I mean things that she said were right obviously but them coming from a person who kinda did/wanted to do the same (in another way) not so long ago, is what I have a problem with. Although sure, Mary made amends and fixed her mistake, but despite that I still can't help but to feel a bad taste in my mouth regarding the subject I mentioned, lol.

kerbear28

Hey ladies! Sorry for the delayed reply. I finally had a little time to properly respond to Mina's thoughts on 3x01. They were such a joy to read, and I agreed with every word.



It really is.



Same. I don't know how parents (and spouses) do it.



It was like a gentle rain after a terrible drought. Everything about the moment and how it was shot was truly heavenly. The scenery, the costumes, the smiles, and the music. And your description of it is perfection, Mina.



Well, then I'm a "girl" too. We really can't talk enough about THE WAY THEY LOOK AT EACH OTHER. And Francis in particular in this scene - trying to memorize every inch of Mary's face and cherish her while he still can.



First of all, Francis looks so damn GOOD sanding that boat. *swoon*

Second, can we just fangirl for a second about the fact that HE IS BUILDING HER AN ACTUAL BOAT?! I love it, and I love the parallel with him building the model boat (the "Just Mary") in 1x05.

Yes again, and again, and again, and again. Francis suggesting they go back to bed, and his smile afterward. Mary's expression after he throws the rag at her is one of my favorite things ever. PRICELESS. And his adorable smirk. Like you said, Mary was so baffled by his behavior... like WTH??? She knows Francis, and he is has always been so responsible and taken his duty to his country, his people, and his family so seriously. Now it looks like all he wants to do is build boats and make love. It was so sweet how he assured her that those things ARE important. In fact, "Nothing is more important" than the woman he loves and every moment he gets to spend with her. Mina, the way you described the moment after they kiss....So beautiful.



Absolutely. Those costumes were stunning. Mary looked like a Greek goddess.



So heartbreaking. Francis is already thinking about a future where he isn't there to guide and protect his own son.



My poor babies. This scene - like so many Frary scenes - is painful and gut-wrenching, and yet so beautiful and inspiring at the same time.

Poor Mary, she has no idea what is coming. She's so hopeful, going on and on about the possibility of peace with Elizabeth. And then Francis is forced to tell her the truth. I love how you described her stunned silence after her husband tells her that she "will no longer have the King of France." When I first watched this scene, I fully expected her to say something here, even if it was just a simple "What?," begging for an explanation. But the way she freezes in this moment is even more powerful. Like you said, she knew if she acknowledged the situation by saying anything, it would become real and she would have to face the truth.

Mary's desperate denial kills me every time, too. She wants so badly to believe it's not true and something can still be done. And Francis becomes desperate, too - frantically trying to make Mary face the truth so that he can make sure she is taken care of after he's gone. He doesn't want to leave her unprotected. He doesn't want to leave her, PERIOD. Of course, even when he is dying and in pain, all he thinks about is her. That is REAL love.

Finally, Francis has to grab her and beg her to hear the truth. Francis' expression when Mary starts to sob in his arms. You described it perfectly. You can see that it hurts him so much to see her in pain (and in pain because of him ), but he pulls himself together and tries to be strong for her, pulling her in close to comfort her. That embrace. I can't describe it any better than you did. Her muffled sobs. The way she buried her face in his shoulder and clung to him so tightly "like she wanted to hold him forever and prevent him from slipping away."

I think we ALL hate this. The fact that they aren't allowed to be happy for one whole episode just feels so.... UNFAIR. Tragic ships really aren't good for our health. Just take comfort in the fact that you are not alone your suffering.

Toby and Adelaide really nailed this scene.



I really like that the first thing Mary did was go to the chapel and pray. (Especially since the last time we saw her in the chapel she was basically asking God's permission to continue her affair... but we won't think about that. )

I love how he just comes up and sits on the ground beside her. Aww and the way they keep touching each other.

Once again, Francis truly is "so strong, so perfect." He's so brave, reassuring Mary that she will survive and that she doesn't have to worry, because he will protect her and France. Worrying about her, when he, when... and she can't even bring herself to finish the sentence. Is it me, or do most of these episode discussions become a treatise on how incredible Francis is? Well, he's just THAT AMAZING.

I really love that Francis didn't want her to come back to him out of pity, too. It shows that he still has self-respect and dignity. He wanted her to choose him freely and for the right reasons. Mary's response (and Adelaide's delivery) is perfect. "Francis, I love you" - like it's completely obvious and no one should ever doubt it again. It was so nice to hear her reassure Francis (and the entire audience) of that fact, when during the whole Season 2 situation it was in question.

Francis' speech about finding the joy in their lives is so poignant. And Mary finally realizing what the boat was all about.



Yes, the scene with them in the boat together is so bittersweet and melancholy. Even the song. And Mary trying to smile and just enjoy being with the man she loves. Side note: I really love how sailing and the water became so symbolic for them.

I had never considered that parallel between Bash/Francis and Charles/Francis embracing in the hallway, but I definitely see it now.



Yes, that was so sad - especially because Francis had to refuse to go riding with his brother. Charles thought he was being pushed aside for court business, but that wasn't the case. Francis wanted so badly to spend time with Charles and teach him everything.



It was definitely good that they brought it up and didn't try to pretend it never happened. And it was satisfying to see Mary show genuine guilt and remorse for her actions. I agree that it didn't feel like enough, but I'm grateful for what we got. Francis' response is so kind. His mercy and forgiveness is so heroic. I love that he didn't want her to continue to blame herself and beat herself up about the past.

I had never connected "soon, I fear I will have nothing left to lose" with her quote in 3x05 "I've been left with nothing." But I do see the parallel. She's facing the possibility of losing everything she holds dear - her country and her Francis.



Yeah, the hypocrisy from Mary in those interactions with Catherine in 2x22 and 3x01 was pretty thick. What she was saying was clearly right, but it didn't sit well with me, either.

mina_lp

Hey Keri I really enjoyed reading yours as well


Exactly I always wondered how parents and spouses do it, lol.


Thanks and, so is your metaphor oh yeah, I forgot to mention the music, that was lovely too


Exactly and yeah, we really can't say enough about the beautiful way they look at each other


Yeah he looked hot, lol.

You know I didn't interpret it as him building that boat specifically for her, I mean it was never said directly, so I just thought that he was doing that as an act of the "finding the joy" in their lives though it certainly can be interpreted as the way you mentioned too but nonetheless it does remind of their 1.05 scene


Yeah, Mary's expression was funny
Yes indeed, nothing was more important aw thanks, I'm glad you liked it darling


Ikr? Poor girl was completely clueless and didn't know of the "storm" that was coming and yes, I too definitely expected a "what" or something from Mary but as you said, this way was even more powerful


Ah yes, thank you, really good thing you pointed out; it feels so good to have this place and you guys, so we can share our feelings and thoughts about our Frary, I'm absolutely grateful for that


Oh well, to be completely fair, there was another time that she went to chapel (in 2.18 when Francis was sick, though we didn't see her saying something, she was lightning the candles or something and then Narcissise came and she threatened him and asked his army, lol), but I do get your point and I completely agree with it and I'll leave it at that, lol. But another thing I'd like to mention is that, a while ago someone made a point about Mary on instagram and I noticed after that, and she was right; she said Mary had this rosary that a little girl gave her in pilot and Mary used to hold it in the most difficult times of her life; she was holding it here in the chapel scene, and other times I remember now is, at Francis' funeral and also when they were beheading Mary in 4.16. I thought it was somewhat interesting, so I thought to share it here.


Well as you said, he is absolutely amazing, so we can't help it


It was so nice and satisfying indeed.


Oh yeah, again I forgot to mention the song; it was nice and a perfect choice for this scene and I too love how sailing and the water became symbolic for them Plus, I always adored the view behind them (when they were sailing), of course it's no surprise there, I mean my favorite color is blue, I love almost all kinds of blue, but out of all, "sky blue" and "ocean blue" are my favorites, so to have them both along with Frary in one view, is like heaven for me, lol.


Yeah, poor boy wanted to "put the pieces in place" before he goes


Good to know I'm not the only one

kerbear28

Aw I'm glad you liked the metaphor. For me, Season 2 (at least the second half) was one extremely LONG drought, but we survived.



If any man looked at me the way Francis looks at Mary... well, it would shake me to my core and change my life forever I can tell you that much.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

ETA:



There's no reason we can't interpret it both ways. We saw Mary sailing the boat after Francis passed, but I always wondered what happened to it after Mary left Scotland.



YES. Eternally grateful for this place and all of you.



Ah, I had forgotten about that scene in 2x18... but I suppose my general point still stands. It was really lovely to see Mary genuinely praying for her husband.

Now that you mention it, I think I did see something about that rosary, but I didn't realize it had been featured in all of those episodes. That's so beautiful! Thanks for sharing that.



Exactly. It can't be helped.



Yes, that song was an absolutely perfect choice for that scene.

Ah the view is so serene and tranquil. I suppose when the scenery includes the sky, the ocean, and Frary…. it's going to be heavenly.



Always thinking of others and how his death will affect them.



Oh, you're definitely not the only one. There were several discussions about Mary's hypocrisy (and how off-putting it was) on this board.

mina_lp

Oh I'm pretty sure it felt that way to all of us


oh well it depends; if the feeling is mutual between me and that man, then yes, it would be the case you mentioned, but if not, it'll only be super uncomfortable, lol.


Aw, I had never thought about that, but now that you mentioned it, I started wondering about it too.

New Frary vid

kerbear28

Ugh, well my internet was acting up last night, and somehow half of my last post got deleted. Honestly, it's so upsetting. To avoid too much confusion, I just edited my last post and recreated it. You can all check it out if you want.



Yeah, we all endured the same experience.



Point taken. Of course the feelings have to be mutual.



At least we know that she was able to take Francis' sword with her.

Thanks for sharing that vid, Mina! It's short, sweet and so well done. They captured so many feelings in just a minute and a half.

Whenever we're ready, here's Frary in 3x02.

mina_lp

Yeah I guessed such a thing might've happened, it's so frustrating when that happens I did check it out :

I'm glad you liked the "rosary" thing and you're welcome

Yes, as you said: sky+ocean+Frary= heaven

And LOL at several discussions taking place on this board about Mary's interaction with Catherine


Aw yes (loved what he had wrote on the sword btw; my queen, my light, my love) reminds me of when she had survived the storm and was at the beach in Scotland, the minute she pulled herself together, she started looking for the sword but sadly it wasn't there I was like: no! The last thing remaining of him for her, is gone too. But thankfully she took the sword (and also his revenge) later. BTW, I think that necklace Mary is wearing in the first vid (of 2.02) and we are actually seeing it in the pic, is the one that she stabbed that man's neck with (and then of course killed him with the sword).


You're welcome! and agree

P.s: I'll share my thoughts on 2.02 in my next post.

kerbear28

Thanks, darling. Yes, it's incredibly frustrating. I'm just impatient and hate redoing work that was already done.



The inscription on the sword was so precious. I felt the same way after the shipwreck. I was so afraid that she had lost the sword and that that last remaining piece of him was gone forever. That would have been devastating. But of course, the sword came back to her. And how PERFECT was it that Francis' sword was the instrument Mary used to avenge him.

Ah yes, I do believe that's the necklace she stabbed Munro with. She was very resourceful.



Sounds great. Looking forward to it.

bscgirl99

Ah, it's so great to see everyone's long posts in here again .

kerbear28

Right?! It's so wonderful. Are all my Fraries having a nice weekend?


ETA: The long posts make me nostalgic for the days when I'd come home and discover that Fraries had killed a WHOLE THREAD while I was gone. Then I'd try to compose these epic "catch-up" posts to respond to everything. So much fun.

mina_lp

Aw, that's so sweet to hear Andrea and Keri

It's been fine Keri, I hope you had a good too and what you said, just reminded me of old OTH days and what was happening with LP thread and me back then


oh I think everyone hates redoing work that was already done and it has nothing to do with being impatient, lol. Actually this remided me of Catherine's quote when she told Penelope: nothing bothers me more than a problem I've already solved, coming back, lol.


So perfect and symbolic


She so was, I enjoyed it, lol.

Thoughts on 3.02:
First Frary scene: And here we go again with Mary's hypocrisy ; not only suggesting Francis that he should kill his mother, but also when Francis said he can't, she said: "her crimes are treasonous!", excuse me but weren't your actions and plans with Conde "treasonous" as well? But you were forgiven, so why don't you give her a chance as well? Or at least stop pouring salt on Francis' wounds. I understand that she was terrified by Catherine and thought she was dangerous to her, but asking (dying) Francis to kill his mother, while she knew it would be so hard for him, was just a big I loved what Francis replied her though

Anyway, moving on to more beautiful and emotional parts of the scene; "I refuse to give up hope" it was nice that she wanted to stay hopeful until the very last, but at the same time it was sorta showing that deep down she still was clinging to denial (which was completely normal) And when she said she wasn't pregnant again, for a very brief moment a sad look came on Francis' face but immediately pulled himself together and told her it's alright. But when Mary started to tear up and said: "I really wanted this; a part of you", it really broke my heart Anyway, I loved that she told Francis they are more than alliance/royalty and that they love each other Also loved Francis' reply: "we always will", like no matter what happens nothing can ever change that One thing I found cute was the look that Mary gave Francis, when he said: "unless it [the marriage] progressed to something more", she was like: oh don't be ridiculous and of course said: "we both know that would never happen", the main part of this was about "I can't love anyone the way I love you" and the other little part was: especially not Charles who is basically a young child, not to mention like a little brother to me, lol. And finally at the end she said she would do it for both of their countries, "even though it breaks her heart", poor Mary was so torn even at the idea of such a thing I loved how Francis sorta comforted her without even saying anything; the way he held her face, along with that sad smile and tender look on his face Btw, he was so soft during this entire scene; the way he just kept touching her arm/hands, stroking her face and also that little hand kiss

Family gathering scene followed by next Frary one: those shocked and sad looks on Claude's and Bash's faces when they had learned the truth then that little nice Frash moment that Bash promised Francis his son would be protected now we come to Charles part; poor boy was so terrified and the way he started talking about how he should've studied and all that, totally showed it (tbh if I were in his place, I would've been freaked out too, lol). And this was even before knowing what Francis wanted to suggest, lol. After that he became pissed too . Btw Francis was nervous/stressed himself while delivering his suggestion to him (it was evident from his expressions; again well done Toby Rego), probably because he knew Charles wouldn't take it so well and he was right, I mean at the end it came to a point where he basically told Francis: when you are dead, I'll be king and no one can force me then. Aw, I felt really bad for Francis, I mean those shocked+mad+frustration expressions on his face, were like: did he just....great, he is not gonna cooperate and that is the last thing we need right now (lol). And of course after that Francis explaining to Mary why they can't tell Charles the truth about Catherine. Btw, it was satisfying that Mary admitted that what Catherine had told Vatican, was basically the truth and continued with: "my indiscretion with Conde....", but of course Francis (again) didn't let her beat herself up for it Anyway, it was clever of Frary to allow Charles see his mother and realize himself why they are acting the way they are, they were sure Catherine would try to do something and she sure did

Francis and Catherine scene: aw, it was upsetting that Catherine was crying because of the news and just like Mary started to deny the whole thing: "it must be poison" . Then the scene got even more emotional when she came close to him, held his face and told him all that. Clearly Francis was affected by it and started to get emotional as well (once again nice job Toby) but he didn't want to lose control or show her any point of weakness, so he did his best to keep it together by taking her hands off of his face, literally telling her stop and even moving away from her and saying "stop" once again in a more determined way. He wanted to remain sensible and do what he thought was for the best, in that situation and I'm actually proud that he was able to do that. One of the many things I always loved about Francis was that despite being a sensitive person, he was also sensible/reasonable at the same time (P.s: here Francis probably thought Catherine wanted to use/misuse his emotions in order to get what she wanted; i.e her freedom and control over Charles' mind. Personally I think on some level this was right, but there's no denying that even in doing this, her "ultimate" goal was protecting her children and doing what was best for them, though her "way" of doing that and also her opinion of "what's best for them" was wrong, lol).

Last Frary scene: in the beginning of the scene we basically saw what Mary told Charels earlier: "today took much out of him", Poor boy had no strength left and was resting, and even after he woke up, he didn't have enough strength to get up and sit, as we saw him having difficulty in doing that (while talking to Charles) Btw while he was sleeping, Mary stroking his hair and arm with that sad look on her face made the whole thing even more upsetting Anyway, finally and thankfully Charles came around and agreed with the suggestion (and this time for real, lol). But Mary's despration really broke my heart in here ; getting teary eyed and saying: "is this really happening? Am I really planning a life, a future without you?", like she really couldn't believe, it was unbelievable for her that the whole nightmare was actually happening; the ugly truth was sinking in slowly . And after that, her lying down in his arms and then him kissing her head in that deep heartfelt way, closing his eyes and breathing her in

P.s: I hated two things; 1) last Matherine scene for obvious reasons (I mean clearly what Catherine did was wrong but that doesn't make what Mary said, right. Lol). 2) I also hated that in these epis, Lola basically wanted to sorta "wait for Francis to die", so that she could wed Narcisse, I mean obviously she did get upset by the news but there were certain scenes that just felt the way I mentioned.

kerbear28

Then you can relate. I never got a chance to be involved with the OTH fandom here on , but I loved the show. And LP.



That is the perfect Catherine quote for this situation. There's a Catherine quote for EVERY situation.



Ugh, yes, the beginning of the scene is so disturbing. I hate that Mary even suggested that Francis kill his own mother. She had to know that pain that would cause him. And the hypocrisy! Come on, Mary... if you're grateful for the incredible mercy you have been shown, then at least try to extend that mercy to others. I did love Francis' response, though. So firm and noble.



I understand Mary's need to cling to hope, because I was denial at this point myself. When she told him that she wasn't pregnant again, it was truly devastating. As always, he was strong for her and reassured her that it was alright. But when Mary said, "I really wanted this; a part of you," that utterly broke my heart, too.

Mary: "You and I us. We're not just royalty. We are more than an alliance. We're different. We love each other."
Francis: "And we always will."

Ah this exchange is so lovely. These two were so blessed to have found real love in the midst of an arranged marriage / political alliance, and it was sweet that Mary acknowledged how rare and special that is. And Francis reassuring her that they will always love each other - that their love is ETERNAL and even death can't stop it.



Yeah, Mary's reaction to that suggestion was pretty cute. And your description of the reasons behind her reaction is spot on. It was mostly about the fact that she could never love anyone the way she loves Francis. But especially not Charles, for the obvious reasons that you stated. Even though it breaks her heart, she agrees to do it in order to protect both of their countries. It's so admirable that she was willing to make that sacrifice. And all of the ways that Francis comforted her without saying a word in this scene....so precious. I just adore how touchy-feely these two are.



It was so sad to see the shock and pain on Claude and Bash's faces when they learned they were going to lose their brother and friend.. I wish we could have seen more of the siblings dealing with Francis' death together... for some reason, it didn't feel like enough to me. But I understand that they needed to focus on Frary and Francis/Catherine and even Francis/Charles. Side note: I couldn't help but agree with Claude when she said that Catherine should be told that Francis is dying. No matter what she's done... she's his mother.

Bash promising Francis that his son would be protected was so sweet. And it was so fitting, because Bash knew exactly what John would face as the bastard son of a king. It's disappointing that we didn't really get a chance to see this come to fulfillment.

Yeah, poor Charles was so freaked out, and I don't blame him. Of course Francis was nervous when he suggested that Charles marry his wife after he dies. One of the most awkward requests EVER. And of course Charles didn't take it well. It was sweet that Charles' first objection was the fact that Mary loved FRANCIS. And of course, he wants to marry someone his own age (as if Mary is SO elderly ). I understand why Charles got so upset, but it was really harsh when he basically said that when Francis is dead, he'll be king and he can do whatever he pleases. I felt so bad for Francis in that moment.

It was definitely satisfying that Mary admitted that what Catherine had told the Vatican was the truth. Once again, Francis didn't let her blame herself and beat herself up over the past.

It really was clever of Frary to allow Charles to talk with Catherine and discover for himself how manipulative she is and why they want to protect him from her. It's so wonderful to see them strategizing together.



I love that he is always reasonable, despite being such a caring, sensitive person. He was so determined and firm, here. In spite of anything he might be feeling, he always wants to do what is best for his country and the ones he loves. Good analysis of Francis' thoughts, here. On some level, he was right, and Catherine did want to manipulate him in order to get what she wanted. But I do believe that Catherine's primary motivation was always protecting her children and doing what was best for them - even if her methods (and opinion of what was "best") were not correct.



Yes, seeing our Francis so weak and tired was so upsetting. And Mary tenderly stroking his hair and his arm. I'm glad that Charles ultimately did agree. But seeing Mary break down like that - trying to process how this could really be happening.... the reality sinking in. I know some people rolled their eyes at this statement at first. Like...wasn't Mary just recently planning a future without Francis when she was going to run off with Conde? But... looking at it now, that's a little unfair. Even when she was making plans with Conde, she never imagined a future where Francis wasn't alive and ruling France. She never once considered her world without Francis in it.



Agreed and agreed.

mina_lp

Sorry for the delay in replying I've been busy with university stuff, and I think my next week will be even more busy, as my classes begin from next week but hey, at least I have a couple of days to relax before it, lol.


I sure can now as for you not being involved with the OTH fandom, I must say maybe from one aspect you were actually lucky? I mean
although I "met" a lot of nice people in LP thread and have many good memories from there (which I'm totally grateful for), but all in all, OTH fandom/board as a whole, was a bit toxic for my taste; shipper wars happening AT LEAST once or twice a day, mods having to send warnings regularly, ..... it was dramatic and the board wasn't as peaceful or free as here, though I guess now that this show isn't running anymore helps it as well, but since I randomly have read some old Frary threads from when the show was running; judging by that, I definitely say it had been more "peaceful" here than there, lol.


Yep


Yeah, you said it beautifully


Ikr?so tender


Yeah, although we saw little bits of that here and there (like how Claude tells Leith in next epi it's hard to watch his brother get worse, or how after Francis' death Bash said he lost his brother, friend and king all at once), but it didn't feel enough for me either, but just like you, I understand why they had to focus on those more important relationships, they were the key ones to the plot and there was also the limitation of time. And yes again, I agreed with Claude there


Disappointing indeed. I always couldn't help but to think that poor Francis begged many of his family members to look after John, but sadly pretty much none of them did/could, excpect Catherine (although yeah, they ended up not being able to one way or the other, not like they didn't want to ), I mean Mary had to leave for obvious reasons, Bash left too, even the poor child's mother was killed, so even ironicly for a short while, Narcisse (who once was Francis' biggest enemy) eneded up saving/looking after him (life has its strange ways I suppose, lol), but thank god that Catherine was there and poor child ultimately ended up being under her care.


Yeah
aw, I never looked at it that way; (that his first objection was that Mary loved Francis), so sweet
Yeah, although it was understandable, but it was definitely harsh and I too felt bad for Francis (reminds me of his quote in next epi when he told Lola: "you're not the first person to tell me, I can't control things after I'm gone" ).


Yes, they make a really good team reminds me of Mary's quote in 2.07 when she told Francis: "WE work well together; you and I", and also Francis' quote in next epi: "it feels like it did in the beginning; like we can do anything together"


I agree, minus the last sentence as I think her plans with Conde meant that she did consider HER world without Francis, BUT she didn't consider "the world" without Francis; I mean as stupid, Naive and selfish as it was, basically she just thought her going with Conde to Scotland was her only way of surviving and she thought (or probably on some level eased her conscious by) something like this: Francis might get hurt temporarily but eventually he'll get over it, start a new life and will have a good life and rule over France, so yeah as you said she never imagined a future where Francis wasn't alive and ruling France. Anyway, all in all while I do get those people's POV and intial frustration at that statement (especially first time watching), but personally I didn't see it as hypocritical or something like that, and I thought it was actually genuine and to be completely fair, clearly circumstances were different back then; in very simple words; she was absolutely desperate and out of her mind but obviously she snapped back to it, realized her mistake and made amends, lol.

Some related vid to this epi (which contains many beautiful parallels btw)

bscgirl99

I started watching OTH in 2011 I believe, so I wasn't part of that fandom on here and from what I've heard about it, that's probably for the best . Love LP though, they had my heart from the beginning .

Yeah, it was so rare to find real love in all that royal madness, but they did, and it withstood so much, including death itself. It's truly remarkable.

kerbear28

No worries! I've been crazy busy the past couple days as well. I hope you do have a chance to relax before things get hectic again.



Yes, I have heard about the "drama" on the OTH board , and I have to agree with you and Andrea - I mostly feel grateful that I wasn't a part of it. It sounds like it would have made me very uncomfortable.

Oh, you read some of the old Frary threads? I hope I didn't say anything too embarrassing as I was fangirling. I suppose that we did have "ship wars" for a short time while the show was running, but in my experience, it has always been respectful and peaceful here. One of my goals since I took the mod position was for this board to remain a welcoming, peaceful and free space. I'm happy that you see it that way.

Remarkable indeed.



Yes, I appreciated the moments that you mentioned, but I wish we had more. I understand they had limited time, however, and they had to focus on the central relationships to the storyline.



Poor John. It really is so tragic that they all (for one reason or another) weren't able to fulfill Francis' wishes and look after his son. And how ironic is it that Narcisse was the one to rescue little John and bring him back to France?? Life really is strange, lol. I'm so grateful that John ultimately ended up in Catherine's care. Not only is she fiercely loyal and protective of her family, but she was the one person left who could really tell John about his father and how much he loved him.



I think perhaps seeing the love that Frary shared made Charles not want to settle for just an "alliance." Of course he wouldn't want to marry a woman whose heart belonged to another.

Poor Francis.



Beautiful examples.



Ah, well by "her world" I suppose I meant "the world" in general. Semantics. Obviously, Mary had imagined what her own life would be like without Francis, but she never considered that he wouldn't go on to live his own life and find happiness again. We are in agreement here. I do believe the statement was genuine (and obviously that's what the writers intended). The first time hearing the statement, it just seemed hypocritical and frustrating - especially when it appeared that so little time had passed since the Conde mess. When the episode first aired, I don't think fans had had sufficient time to fully forgive Mary and gain real perspective on her past behavior. It was easy to distrust her and throw her mistakes back at her. But, like I said, that wasn't fair.


Ahh you always find the loveliest vids, Mina! That song and all the beautiful parallels.