Less Than Perfect

Based on one of the articles Ari did, it sounds like the end of it for Ira. And it occurs to me that unless Mark is back next week that it's probably the end of the Castors. I can't see them introducing a new one this late in the game.

Absolutely forgot about that. Though that does explain why she didn't look pregnant.


The Worst. It's not like PT is going to be doing her any favours.

majesdane

praise jesus.

i don't even care what happens to mud. girl, BYE.

hopeless romantic

This episode absolutely blew me away both by how it cleared up long-confusing plot-lines (for instance, who knew that Ethan and Susan had been responsible for the cloning of the Ledas, but that Coady was separately responsible for cloning the Castors, presumably piggy-backing on their work, but also that she intended their sperm to become weapons -- at least according to Susan?!?) but also entertained while still leaving me with so many feels!!!!!

I'm totally into the idea of a romance between Brie and Scott -- although I highly doubt we'll have time to see any of it onscreen, I loved the hint that this stalwart guy who has given so much of himself for Clone Club (his line about how he used to be a doctoral student hit me really hard with the fact that his entire life and potential career path have been completely hijacked by his decision to help Cosima, to the extent that he now works in a literal underground lab, which makes me worry about how he can even afford to feed his cat) might finally at least have sex before he dies, lol.

Having been spoiled by "next week" video, I was still having trouble wrapping my brain around the idea that Krystal is not just played by Tatiana, but was also making out with Tatiana's real squeeze. It made me laugh out loud every single time Sarah told Krystal to think with her brain and quit trying to have sex in the kitchen (um, where have we seen something like that happen before, lol). It made me laugh even harder at the disparaging comments Krystal made about Sarah to Art and Scott. Then, seeing Krystal take all of that post-abduction trauma/martial arts training out on Len, finally attacking his beard of all things with the product that causes hair breakage/loss, well I can't see that being anything but a hilarious joke on the fact that Tom Cullen probably had to grow that monstrosity for a role....

Another thing that just occurred to me is to ask, is it possible that Brie is Krystal's current monitor? In which case she might actually know more about Dyad and all that stuff than I originally gave her credit, so we might get to see her again, and she might be able to help get Kira out of Dyad?!?

Because that's where my heart is right now. Even though I felt surprisingly sad about the deaths of Susan and Ira, Kira's safety, and preventing the harvest of her ovaries (which, depending on the theorists you talk to, may mean that they are taking away much of her own future ability to have children of her body) not only feels like child rape but also like the single most horrific thing that has happened on Orphan Black since the Ledas were created to be so flawed that they were intended to be observed and monitored, but never to know their own biology, let alone to have "miracle children" of their own, which should, IMO, always be a choice any and every woman should at least be able to decide to try to make for themselves.

I have to admit that the bits of backstory we finally got for Mud (I now fully understand why she introduced herself to Cosima by saying, "My name is Mud," aka, I'm a nothing, a nobody, someone too deplorable to ever love, someone only ever to brightly, effervescently proclaim her devotion to her newest "habit"). Poor, damaged little girl, someone much too young to even know much more than that hair was starting to grow in weird places, so damaged that not only did she start stealing from her parents to buy hard-core drugs, their response was to hate her so much that she put herself into a coma by taking more....

I hate what she did, in terms of not having the strength of character to stand up to Coady, but I don't blame her for still being a scared, confused little girl who only wants the love of the only person who seemed to give her enough encouragement to forgive herself enough to take that stupid, self-hating excuse for a cow bell off as a way of clanging out news of how she doesn't deserve to live because she had enough heart to want to save Yannis when John/"PD" quite obviously, to my grown-up eyes, only ever had wanted to get rid of his failed experiment once he had outlived his usefulness.

ForumFanatic

Honey, this just means Mark is taking over. The timing of Gracie's return is not coincidence.

Stop being sexist against Castor clones. I don't cheer when a female clone dies.

ForumFanatic

Well if Ira died with Susan, that checks them both off the list of plots to attend to. But I don't believe they set Ira meeting Coady up for nothing.

It was late last night, I meant to say miscarriage instead of abortion. Lel.

Mud honestly just reminds me of a less interesting Gracie storyline. Except Mud's excuses for being brainwashed were severely weaker.

Scully_fan

You know I found this episode strange. I was into it, but it felt like it meandered with the Krystal shenanigans and then all of a sudden everything happened all at once in the last 7 minutes. And oh did things unravel fast for PT. 50 years of bull**** all undone with one photo. The power of exposure. It very much reminded me of the x-files in that regard.

Aside from finding the pacing strange, I found it strange that the clones felt a bit like bystanders for the main event, in a way? Krystal obvs was up to things, but Sarah was just learning about Delphine/Mrs S and then watching Krystal, and Cosima was trapped in the basement whilst all the plots were being formulated/carried out. It almost felt like this whole episode could have played without any of the clones and the result would have been exactly the same.

It's just strange for this show about all these clones, in the final season, and they were sort of just.... there.... doing not much at all. With no Helena or Alison whatsoever. Not that I'm missing them much at all, but this is the final season and I love clone club and I want to see some clone club.

I also really liked Susan in the end. She was sketch af at times, but I genuinely think she loved the Leda's in her own way and I do think she would have been an amazing turncoat ally which she very almost was. Her death was particularly dark, and I'm not sure she deserved it in the end.
Idk she arrived at PT's door naive and vulnerable with an addictive personality. The perfect mark for PT to manipulate. I'm not even sure I believe the coma story, not for 6 months when she seems to suffer no neurological or muscular effects from it. They didn't say it but I'd go so far as to believe PT made her think she'd been in a 6 month coma when she regained consciousness and he, the "saviour" miraculously ~saved her. but she really hadn't. She's cut off from the rest of the world so it's not like she'd be able to necessarily tell how long she'd been out. But yeah there were definitely Gracie parallels, the punishment thing in particular.

majesdane

i'm allowed to dislike any of the characters i like. guess you haven't been here for the 5 years when i've complained that rachel needs to die and that helena should have stayed dead?

the castor storyline was a mistake and i've hated them since day 1. i'm happy they're gone. they added nothing to the show IMHO, just like a multitude of characters have been useless since their inception.

Scully_fan

I'm not a fan of the Castors individually (Ira was fine) but I do think collectively they have a sound footing in the mytharc of the show. Plus Cosima wouldn't have a cure without them so I appreciate their contribution there.

SRBleyton4ever

THIS. They were one of the reasons I stopped watching the show for a while, and I haven't even really missed anything.

Pretty sure we've all at some point complained about that. I'll settle now for Helena popping up every now & then, but Rachel can still die.

This episode honestly bored the crap out of me. Krystal like Helena is ok in small doses. When this is the final season and you're giving her the main plotline to an ep? You've lost me. So very glad that Sarah now knows Delphine is one of Mrs.S sources, and Cosima exposed PT for the fraud he is. The Coady/PT/Susan dynamic was ok-ish but didn't really interest me. Next week looks to be a better ep hopefully.

majesdane

x2

i loved hearing that.

i feel like we should have gotten more of coady/susan rivalry in the seasons prior to this, because it felt like it was amped up way higher here than it ever really was before. ymmv tho.

hopeless romantic

I remember it being explicit canon in season two, when Ethan was explaining his history during the project to (I think it was to Sarah, it might have been a scene that included Mrs. S), s/t that the original funding for their research came from military sources, but that once those military sources got what they wanted (presumably the Castors), they quit funding the research so that he and Susan turned towards corporate funding from the Dyad Institute to create "little girls."

Of course, we've got many, many reasons to believe that he was having trouble with various forms of dementia, with his promise to Sarah that everything would be okay combined with his almost immediate suicide meaning that it'd be easy for a jury to acquit P.T., Susan, Virgina, and Ethan of the worst of their deeds in creating the Ledas/Castors or the Castors/Ledas.

IMO, Susan's memory didn't seem to have been as morbidly shaped by the almost PTSD trauma of having to go into hiding when he believed that "his Susan" was lost, so, when now it seems (at least from that photo of the two of them "together") that she was sleeping with whoever "John's" real identity was, so that she gave up any responsibility for "his beloved Rachel" to Neolution and Ethan felt the need to abandon her himself, take on a false name and flee probably contributed to his diagnosable incoherence, so I take his dialog about how she was able to solve one of the critical gene problems (one that governs how you can mechanically separate fertilized embryos, as far as I can tell, to get viable "twins"/successive clones) as having had to have predated Coady's research, but that his other work remained a very carefully hidden secret from both since he didn't seem to trust either.

Besides, we also got dialog this week (albeit, again, one-sided, but Coady's dialog with Ira didn't seem to indicate anything Susan had done to him other than withhold knowledge of what we already know was a completely bogus attempt to "cure the Castors") that at least suggested that Susan managed to force Coady out (which is in line with Ethan's) so that she was limited to research from the military arm may have been through sex (yeah, ewww!!!!) but we already knew that it made Ira jealous and she didn't tell him that he had never been a sexual partner, so that the Castor line, which we concretely know was so heavily compartmentalized that the Castors were "a myth" to Topside until Paul returned to the military from his mission to infiltrate Project Leda at the highest levels probably means that... yeah, Susan probably came out better on the litmus test of "which one of P.T.'s "biatches" was more determined to be immoral than the other....

Aurora Cormier

I really wasn't expecting to love this episode, but I did!

- FINALLY Revival was set on fire like I've always wanted Gosh, this place and everything/everyone related to it bores me to tears, so I'm very very happy Cosima and Charlotte are finally out of there and Delphine won't have to go back to it. I was really sad for Aisha, though, the only new character I liked, but her death was expected I honestly couldn't care less about Mud and I hope she disappears after this, I really don't care about her backstory at all.

- I was way sadder for Susan and Ira than I thought I would be Susan at least cared about the clones, in her own way, and Ira was a good Castor, the only one I actually liked (Mark was alright, but I didn't care about him as much...I wonder if he'll show up again now). Somehow it felt like their ending fit the characters' journey, though

- I LOVED Mrs.S saying Delphine went through great risk to help them, now Sarah trusts her as well I kinda wish we could have seen Delphine interacting with Felix and Adele, would've been fun

- Mrs.S/Sarah/Kira working together was beautiful, btw For a moment I thought Kira had drunk soap, like season 1 Sarah

- Krystal being Krystal is always awesome and I love her What I like about her is that even though she's obviously there for comic relief more than anything, she still manages to be useful. I've always felt like they handled her character better than Alison in that aspect.

hopeless romantic

I know that OB is just a work of fiction, but I gotta say that the number of people who have said that they want characters to be dead (whether onscreen or off) bothers me quite a bit.

I'm not a mod, but, IMO, the forum rules that people should "be respectful" should probably at least mean, "don't hope for the same kind of inhumane death MK suffered," at least without explanations for how extreme violence (or negligent violence, which is my way of saying, "they died off-camera, but they were boring me, so it's all good" is a human virtue.

I genuinely have trouble seeing how it's "respectful" to disparage a show on FanForum, which merely loans us their bandwidth, just because you don't some characters to the degree that you "want them to die."

Aurora Cormier

If you're referring to Twist's post where she says Rachel should die and Helena should've stayed dead, it's not against the rules, as she's not wishing death on a real person OR implying that Rachel or Helena fans are wrong for liking them, etc. For someone who is a fan of either of those characters, it may be an annoying post, but it's a case of agree-to-disagree, imo. In the end, she's just rooting for the villain to be defeated, and in some cases the ultimate punishment in fiction is death. It's pretty common, in my experience at least, for people to root for a villain's death. As for Helena, she just thought the character had served her purpose in season 1, when Sarah shot her, and that it would've been better to end the character's journey there. She has talked about this here many times, and I get where she's coming from, even though I do like Helena.

SarahManning

As expected, Krysyal was hilarious. After seeing Tom and Tat in The Other Half, seeing them in Orphan Black together is very interesting. Their chemistry on screen is always so good.

Hi, by the way.