SRBleyton4ever

This is the only thing I'll agree with you on, because it seriously bloody annoys me. Especially when Cosima's spent a whole ep pushing for answers, getting told to back tf off or she might be hurt, and then despite Mud again warning her, she decides to confront PT in the basement. Completely alone. And no-one apart from PT, Susan & Mud know where she is. One of whom is an evil mastermind, the other only cares about her own hind & Mud's too much of a pussycat to really test those waters.

Most interesting episode of s5 so far. Lots of plot development, can't wait for next week.

Scully_fan

I can't believe I was concerned the character centric episodes wouldn't work, when the two we've had have blown the other 3 episodes out the water. I'm loving it.

I have so many questions about Kira's 1300 potential children *shudders* namely being how in the world can they do it when I swear Kira was 7 in S1 so she'll be 8 now in the timeline of the show? PT must be in a pretty desperate decline of health if he can't wait a couple more years.

I'm also curious why they made the clones sterile if they wanted to see the gene manifested in them because surely they'd want to do the same thing with Kira and see if it's inheritable after?

And the messanger has a better name now. Grumpy Gus.
It makes sense. They are our characters for the science, and the heart of this show, or the heart of the mystery I should say, is the science. Like either character or lothe them but Sarah couldn't be discovering what they are - and Delphine's the only character with any scope/a foot in the door to play double agent and bring Neolution down from the inside.

I think they keep popping her in these situations because she's the clone with the most compassion, her actions are more easily driven by emotion than Sarah/Helena/Alison, and to see PT not be able to break that down in Cosima's and twist it/defile what makes Cosima strong, is a show of strength for all the clones I think. Neolution won't beat any of them down, and it's why I think they are going to win.

I'm now wondering if the source is Ferdinand...... his way to act against Rachel. The enemy of my enemy = my friend. I can't think of who else the source could be that we know.

BrooklynFan

Yes. I was frustrated by Cosima in this scene--rushing off half-cocked to confront PT when Delphine had JUST finished explaining that she was working on a plan to bring down Neolution from the outside and that causing trouble in the inside could endanger Kira--but I agree it was important to show that PT couldn't take away or twist Cosima's humanity. In addition to showing the clones' strength of character it affirmed Delphine's words in the S1 flashback about how Neolution could never own the things that make Cosima human.

Also agree that Ferdinand was the source regarding Coady. He's angry enough at Rachel to betray her, and he was the last person seen with Coady in Season 3, if I recall correctly. Will be interesting if Ferdinand and Coady, two of the most morally reprehensible characters on the show, end up being instrumental in bringing down Neolution.

hopeless romantic

Um... Cosima rushing off half-cocked is, to quote her, part of their (the Leda's) genetic makeup (and there's lots of evidence that every single member of Clone Club has trouble with impulse control.)

But we don't have any evidence that Ferdinand is still angry with Rachel, whereas we've had two episodes in sequence (last week we saw Ira listening/skulking and this week we not only heard him whispering to Cosima but also questioning Susan about details of Neolution's early days, which is stuff that has never seemed to bother Ferdinand in the slightest).

Scully_fan

^ Ferdinand being kicked to the curb seems like something that would make him hold a grudge, especially when Rachel is choosing Neolution over him which he admitted before he hates with a passion. He's vindictive enough (just look at Helsinki/MK) to destroy Rachel if he can.

I wouldn't necessarily discount Ira though now you've said him, but I don't think he as a source would trouble Mrs S that much whereas dealing with Ferdinand is more of a minefield.

hopeless romantic

I got my first period when I was ten, which was a year later than when my mom started menstruating at age nine.

Pregnancies in girls as young as seven have been well documented.

And yeah, *shudders* doesn't begin to cover how I feel about such stories, since Tutankhamun, one of the most famous examples of a child marrying a child/being buried with his (presumably) stillborn children (who happen to have been born to his half-sister, since incestuousness is, as it has always been, one of the constant themes on OB).

I'm very well aware/my mom made sure that I was aware that pregnancy while bones are still forming/far before they are fully calcified at about age 20, let alone the aspects of brain development necessary to sustain a relationship that, by its very "nature" (pun both intended and not) of pregnancy at an early age is a) dangerous to both the mom and any children that are carried to term, b) devastating to the psyche of both, c) devastating to the psyche of the men who impregnate them, since treating sex as a form of procreational masturbation does nothing to build a society of men and women who love and respect each other and does everything possible to turn women and girls into... subservients, and often into outright slaves.

Personally, I prefer , but your mileage might vary.

ForumFanatic

The S source will turn out to be Rachel

Ferdinand was fired, I doubt he has any Neolution leeway now

BrooklynFan

Rachel, eh? Double-crossing Westmorland. To what end?

majesdane

i admit it would be a cool twist, but ia, i can't imagine why she'd do it.

ForumFanatic

Rachel doesn't want Kira to explode

Aurora Cormier

I've been feeling meh about this season in general I'm not saying the episode wasn't good, that there weren't answers and all, it's just, I don't know, I thought I'd be more excited about things now that it's ending. But I'm always left with a "that's it?" feeling afterwards, or I get frustrated with things I find unnecessary at this point.


Was it really necessary, though? We already knew all that about Cosima. I think this is what frustrated me about this episode, I hoped to get to know Cosima better after it, OR that I would see some progression, but I feel like none of those things happened.

Yeah, there was the parents thing, but I'd rather have seen something than just hearing about them. That is something I wish we could've had a flashback for, more than the Cophine thing, to be honest.

And you could say there was progression in Cosima "accepting" their relationship for what it is, but the dialogue for that scene was so poorly written that even that disappointed me, and I swear I tried to keep my expectations as low as possible


Yeah, that's what I thought

It sounded like that


That was so great I do feel sorry for Ari, he seems like a great person and deserved better than the mess that was the Castor storyline

madam magpie

I mostly lurk here, but wanted to jump in to say that I really liked this episode. I've read a lot in various places about consent, autonomy, etc., and this episode did a great job of laying out two important things: what Delphine believes and what Cosima is willing to give up. The flashback laid out what Delphine (and by proxy, the show) thinks it means to be human. Do we agree with her? Is body autonomy more or less valuable than freedom of thought or imagination? It's a much more spiritual than scientific approach, and it had a lot of power coming from one of the show's most scientific minds, which is why it resonated with Cosima, who finally made a conscious decision to allow Delphine to make choices for her. That shows a lot of trust and has been something Cosima has struggled with throughout the series. It also shows what she values: she'd rather give up some of that control than give up Delphine. That's different from who she was early on.

I thought the whole thing was beautifully done.

Also, whew, if we could all find someone as happy to see us as Delphine is to see Cosima, we'd be super lucky. Cosima needs to do a little work on her welcoming skills, however.

BrooklynFan

On that note, welcome! I'm glad you delurked. I'm headed to bed and too tired to respond properly to your comments about consent and autonomy, but I wanted to say I appreciated your post.

madam magpie

Oh, hi! Thanks for the welcome.

danvers

agreed.

welcome aboard, madam magpie. please, post more