Ashley96

What if Spencer and Caleb live together after the time jump? I've been think of different fanfic ideas and this seems like the most awesome other than Haleb and Spoby still being together. They could be super sleuthing or supporting each other's current careers. What do you think that would be like?

Oh, could you add me? I love their friendship and if Haleb wasn't meant to be then I would really ship them.

BlondieLeigh

Added you Welcome to and the board

I don't want to get my hopes up for something that awesome, but I've looked around a bit and they do seem to have been filming together (or at least on set at the same time) quite a lot I doubt both Haleb and Spoby will still be together. If one is it'll be Haleb, though.

I just want so much awesomeness with these two. Especially because I'm sceptical about the time jump in general and getting great stuff between these two would be perfect.

Ashley96

Thanks for the add. You can call me Micah. This was my first ever post. I got pulled into PLL by Haleb music videos and the shower scene then started watching them on YouTube and I was hooked. Kinda did the love of the show then love of a ship backwards. Lol

I really love their friendship. She was the main one to be down on Hanna for hanging out with Caleb. Aria felt sorry for him because of the homeless situation and then she was like I'm the last person to judge due to Ezra. Emily was concerned but Hanna pointed out Toby. Spencer was the one that was the most persistent about him being bad news.

Then you had Jenna's phone and Spencer and Hanna going to him. Spencer supporting Hanna getting back with Caleb at the fashion show - upset because Hanna was stubbornly saying they weren't together again.

Then they bonded individually over the flash drive, how she asked Hanna how she got Caleb to kiss Mona bc she was surpised he was that devoted imo, and the episode where they sleuthed together and talked about his new family situation. It's just been a really natural progression and it shows development in both of their characters that they are so close. Tbh, I think Spencer is Calebs best friend outside of Hanna. The way she knew he wanted her to stay with just a look and "Spence" in the "essence of best boyfriend" episode.

I definitely think they will keep the closeness in 6b but I'm not sure in what form. I'm also not sure if Haleb will be together after the jump. It's a gut feeling.

Sorry for the long post, I'm a talker and I just binge watched season 1 and 2.

BlondieLeigh

She definitely is his best friend outside of Hanna, imo I know he has his bond with Toby and everything, but I'm just not sure that bond is as deep.

I'm still doubting that they will maintain this friendship, but at least we know it's not being ignored Something is always better than nothing.

I was convinced Hanna and Caleb would still be together, but now I'm not so sure In a way I kind of hope they're not because the couple that are together straight away after the jump are likely to be the one that are torn apart.

No worries with the long posts. I could go on forever about this show

BlondieLeigh

She definitely is his best friend outside of Hanna, imo I know he has his bond with Toby and everything, but I'm just not sure that bond is as deep.

I'm still doubting that they will maintain this friendship, but at least we know it's not being ignored Something is always better than nothing.

I was convinced Hanna and Caleb would still be together, but now I'm not so sure In a way I kind of hope they're not because the couple that are together straight away after the jump are likely to be the one that are torn apart.

No worries with the long posts. I could go on forever about this show

Ashley96

True. I think that Caleb, Spencer and Toby are the ones most likely to stay in Rosewood if Haleb aren't together. Caleb is pretty entrenched with his business, relationship with Hanna's mom and apartment. Spencer is going through a really tough time and I can't imagine Toby leaving unless it's for Spencer.

However, I want Haleb to be together after the jump because a 6 year relationship through high school and college would be awesome and even more reason for them to be endgame even when they would get broken apart.

Plus, I'm too worried about love interests coming in between Hanna and Caleb in the time jump period. Especially if it's serious or has love attached like the Lucas and Lindsay relationship even though Leyton was always going to be endgame. They are rocky right now and Marlene seems to prefer Spoby and Ezria so I'm not sure either. I do know that most people see Haleb as the couple to go the distance as far as the jump realistically and in canon. But I just don't know.

As far as Spaleb, many love their friendship. If they are the ones to stay in Rosewood then it would explain the scenes that they are rumored to have. I think they would be supporting each other during the time jump and they are pretty equal with each other intelligence wise. Spencer is the determined brain and Caleb is the street smart hacker. They are pretty much the perfect friendship/relationship to lean on each other if Haleb isn't together. In fact, there are Haleb fans that worry bc Spaleb scenes take away from our OTP! But this is the only alternative to Haleb not being together that I would accept.

BlondieLeigh

I always thought Spencer would be the first to get out, but now that she's closer to her parents I'm not so sure about that any more. Caleb would stay, imo. It's the only place he's ever really had stability, despite all of the chaos.

It would be awesome for either of the couples to have been together throughout the jump, but I'm trying not to expect it. If the couple that is together is the one that gets torn apart, I'd rather it be one I don't like

I don't mind them having serious love interests. I'm not entirely sure that I'd be okay with Spencer and Caleb ever being each other's love interests for obvious reasons, but the endgames are obvious, so I can deal with some temporary LIs (Side note: I'm glad you said that about Leyton. I'm on season 2, and when I started watching I told my friend they were the obvious endgame from the start and she disagrees.) I do think Haleb are the couple that would go this distance. They're by far the healthiest. That doesn't really mean anything to the writers, though.

I've only ever come across like, two people, that dislike the Spencer/Caleb friendship, and I honestly don't understand it. Caleb has been a constant support system for Spencer, and one of very few guys in her life without an ulterior motive. The friendship has never been a threat to either ship, it's just been healthy and platonic.

We need a title for the new thread? Are there any recent quotes you prefer? I'm thinking the essence of best boyfriend one

Ashley96

In the beginning, Spencer would be the first to get out but season 5 and 6 has really changed her character in that regard.

I understand. Haleb is my OTP on the show. They are a pretty healthy and stable tv couple. They are one of the only couples other than Brad & Jane from Happy Endings that I would want some qualities of in my real life relationship. Ezria I can live without and Emily is, well I don't even know if she will have an endgame. I really like Spoby though but I'm seeing some problems that they have to resolve if they are going to make it.

I don't really want Spaleb in a romantic capacity either because it would hurt Hanna too badly and everyone would hate Caleb. Lol! It's Hanna, Caleb and Spencer in that order of my fav characters. I definitely think Caleb is good for Spencer and they missed an opportunity when she understandably relapsed. PLL writers do not handle addiction storylines well.

Imo, she helped Caleb see (although I think he twisted it to mean this bc he was scarred and really changed from Ravenswood) that if one of the two had to drown then it should be Caleb not Hanna. She helped Caleb get back to being one of the best things that ever happened to Hanna. Then Hanna took it over from there as far as getting herself and Caleb back on track. (Side note: Don't have me talk about how upset I am that people blame Caleb for her drinking when it was a combination of self-identity issues, Alison, and a history with drinking in season 1 which stopped around the time that Sean and her broke up and Caleb came on the scene.)

Then, Caleb has been someone she can talk to about Toby. He also has really been her number one call when it comes to anything even remotely hacking like when it comes to A. So instead of in season 2 where I was a little mad that she overrode Hanna about getting Caleb's help; Now I think in the episode 6x06 that Caleb and her are close enough that she can call him with whatever and it not be about disregarding Hanna's wishes or being oblivious to the danger he can be in like it was before. They have their own established friendship outside of Hanna that involves Caleb helping her with investigating/hacking.

Sorry that I spoiled about Leyton. Interestingly enough, I ship Leyton and Brucas equally so I would have been happy with either outcome. That doesn't happen often as in like not at all.

I really love the essence of best boyfriend because it's really cute how they talk about each other relationships.

BlondieLeigh

It's kind of nice to see how much she's changed over the seasons

Spoby and haleb are the only ones I care about now. I used to love paily too, but their fans were really off putting and Emily's been so awful that I just don't care anymore. Always hated ezria. He creeps me out. I'd rather they be the ones that get torn apart in 6B, so if that means Spencer/Toby and Hanna/Caleb starting it apart and them starting it together, I can deal with that

The damage that Spencer and Caleb dating would potentially do to all three (four if you include Toby) characters just isn't worth it, and it would almost definitely destroy Spencer and Hanna's friendship, which is just unacceptable, tbh. Caleb is so good for Spencer that I hate it when he misses her big storylines. So Toby wasn't around for her pot addiction stuff this season, aside from his absence being forced in general, it was also extremely forced to drag Dean in and destroy his character when what Spencer needed (outside of the drugs help) was a friend, and Caleb was right there!! Hanna was shutting him out, it makes no sense to me that he wouldn't go to Spencer.

She did help him And Hanna's drinking wasn't on Caleb. He was enabling it, but that was because he was dealing with his own demons and wasn't really able to help her in that moment, he wasn't the reason she was drinking, that was mainly Alison, tbh, but people seem desperate to clear her of all blame for everything nowadays.

I find it interesting that when Spencer has problems, she calls Caleb. I personally don't believe the girls (Aria especially) are the best support system to Spencer. Part of that is because she wants to protect them from her drama, she feels responsible for them, but I also think it's because of the way they have been with her on occasions where they have tried to "help" her (4A with Toby and 4B with the drugs being the main examples). It's not that the girls don't try, I just don't think they understand it like Caleb does. She goes to him because she knows he gets it and that he won't judge or overreact.

I was talking to someone a week or so ago who completely refuses to see that Spencer and Caleb's friendship has evolved to a point where it would continue regardless of Hanna. She says they only talk when it's about one of their LIs. I reminded her of the 6x06 scene where she went to see him that had nothing to do with Hanna or Toby, and she stopped responding to me.

I already knew they were endgame. My friend just refuses to believe that it was always meant to be that way. She says Brooke/Lucas was shafted for it or something. Doesn't like that I saw the endgame as an obvious thing from season one.

It is. I mean, obviously he's not a perfect boyfriend, no one is though, and he's pretty awesome at it

Briiiii

i think hanna and caleb shouldnt break up

Ashley96

That sucks that she was that in her feelings about Spaleb's friendship. It's not that serious in that way. I mean we know that the core 4 will always be close. But relationships and dynamics outside of that is important too. They've dropped Emily/Toby which was really cute so I'm glad that they've been more consistent about Spaleb. Plus, if either couple aren't together at the time jump then who better than Spaleb to get each other's endgame back on track.

Spencer has become less about appearances and maybe less snobby which is shown perfectly through her relationship with Toby and friendship with Caleb. Even though Caleb does have a rich mom and stepdad now. Lol! they definitely have made Toby less supportive which I really hate. It's gone downhill in their supportiveness since the A reveal but I still root for them.

I think it was definitely situational drinking and the fandom has a tendency to take the girls sides over everything. Caleb and Hanna were messed up and Hanna is old enough to say no. Combine that with her season 1 tendency to drink and my personal experiences; I get it and cut Caleb and her some slack. They enabled each other and even still they showed ways in which they still supported each other. I would definitely not talk to a Tranna fan about it though. Some probably still haven't forgiven Caleb.

I agree that Caleb would have been there for Spencer and they totally botched that. Caleb has consistently been a non-judger which is awesome. [I try to be that with people I know. Sadly, I judge people who judge other people sometimes. Working on that.] Spencer is the type to be strong for others and very put together but I think she views Caleb as an equal that she can just be honest with. He would have been a big help like she was in season 5.

Aria is not a good friend imo and Emily - I feel the same as you in that regard. Hanna has a great connection with all of them bc she is the heart. Spencer is the mama bear/ the one they look to for the answers. They aren't the best support system in case-by-case basis and the thing about Caleb and Spencer is they are pretty good about doing what you ask of them if you are having a tough time.

I really like Alison because of her complexity and I love anti-heroes and their struggle to be good or bad depending. However, she is emotionally abusive and manipulative and Hanna and Emily (ones who got the brunt in the 4) reacted to that in different ways. I hold her responsible for the things she has done but I also love her because of those things and the good things she does.

You have a good eye for endgame. I pegged it in the 1st season episode 10 when Lucas looked between Peyton and Brooke. I loved Leyton season 1 and I fell for the way that Lucas fell for Brooke in season 2. Hence me shipping both rival ships equally even though it had been very clear about Leyton. Plus Brooke is probably my fav or maybe tied with Haley.

BlondieLeigh

I hate that they've dropped Toby/Emily. As you said, these relationships are just as important as those between the core 4. It's unhealthy for these girls to solely have each other and their own LIs and no one else. They need friends outside of each other.

Toby and Caleb really are the biggest indicators of Spencer's growth. She hated them both in the beginning, now they're arguably the people she's closest to. I don't really think it's a matter of Toby being less supportive, tbh, he just always goes the complete wrong way about supporting her, so it usually results in her feeling isolated and miserable. It's frustrating because they could solve this issue if they communicated properly.

The obsession over taking the girls side in everything really annoys me. Troian's openly said that she doesn't like the girls being seen as the heroes of this story, or faultless, because they're not, but the fandom in general refuse to acknowledge that. It prevents the girls from fully being given credit for the good things they do as well as the bad, tbh. Blaming Caleb basically suggests that he should have control of Hanna - when did we go back in time?

That's one of the things that's so beautiful about Spencer and Caleb's friendship. She is so judgemental, and he never been anywhere near as judgemental as she is. She needs that influence.

I don't think Aria's a good friend to any of them, tbh. She's always been so much more selfish than the others. Hanna and Emily can sometimes overreact when it comes to Spencer, but at least they try. They did unbelievably badly with their intervention in 4B, but it was nice to see them trying to kind of hold Spencer back from destruction respectively in 3B and 4B. Imo, Spencer's connection to Hanna is greater than she has with the other girls - it's funny that everyone considers Aria to be her best friend (I don't) when it was Hanna she went to when her parents separated despite the fact that Aria's parents are divorced too.

Alison's a great villain, and the constant whitewashing of her is annoying me, tbh. She's not a good person, she spent five seasons being sociopathic and now suddenly she's some angel. People like that generally aren't capable of changing. It's ridiculous because I (and quite a few other people) have been accused of hating her just because I won't write off everything she's done and act as if she's some sweet, innocent angel that's never done anything wrong.

I like both, too, but it was always obvious to me. It was the way they were written. Brooke is my absolute favourite too

Ashley96

They definitely need friends outside of each other. In a weird way, Mona was good for Hanna because she was a support outside the A craziness until we found out she was part of the A team. Only time that I really disliked Mona though was Caleb's letter and her tormenting Spencer in 3A. I also love Mama Marin and Hanna's relationship (adding Caleb with Mama Marin since season 4) because it strikes me as a balance between parent and friend.

I think Spoby will get back on track. The writers really like them and the time jump will bring some maturity to the table. I don't want Haleb to be apart in the time jump because they are my OTP so I will be until I know for sure in January I think.

Caleb has never been able to control what Hanna does and outside the car thing; he's pretty supportive of the decisions she makes because he thinks she's amazing. It's really shortsighted to blame the girls action on a LI if it's more complex than that.

I think the girls are capable of a lot of things not only because of Alison's early influence but also because your true self bad and good comes out in high pressured situations. Every character is shady in some way even the girls.

Also, people are taking Alison's side a lot and were mad or on the other extreme elated that Caleb was just honest in 5A. People can be extreme about complex characters. It's I love them and they've changed or they need to be gone and don't bring something dynamic to the table. I try to find a medium and I think they went overboard trying to now write Alison as good. I do, however, think she cares about her loved ones but not enough to override herself if that makes sense.

Aria has always been the distant and more selfish one. Emily strikes me as an emotional masochist (I hate saying that) sometimes although I definitely agree with Jenna that she's not necessarily the nice one in the 4. Hanna does try but I think she expected Spencer to be Spencer so she didn't know how to help. Plus the girls can really suck at support I.e. Aria with the Hanna and creepy Zach situation. It's the same with how they didn't help Spencer in 4B.

Spencer and Caleb balance each other. He can tell her when she is being more Hastings and less Spencer. She can help him fulfill that need to contribute/protect that sometimes Hanna feels smothered by or she can't really tell him what's going on. They just have less expectations from each other so they can just relax and be. They are best friends.

BlondieLeigh

Mona was a good friend at the time, and in some weird, twisted way, she kind of is now, too Ashley's one of those parents that knows how her kid needs her to be. She can lay down the law but also make sure she's not distant and can be confided in. It's a great balance. I do think she can be a little too much of a friend sometimes, though.

I think it's a given that they're both endgame. I'd like both to be together after the time jump, but at the same time I want neither because the couples that are apart will get the best arcs. It's very conflicting

The car thing was just wrong, but I understand why he did it. It was a little controlling, but he went three weeks not even knowing if she was alive, so it's pretty understandable that he would want to know where she was. People like to blame the LIs for everything just because they don't like them regardless of the fact that the girls are their own people.

The girls are ambiguous, and I love that. If they were the obvious heroes the show would be boring. Half of the fun is their doing both shady and stupid things out of desperation and wondering how long they will get away with it.

Caleb was the ONLY one in 5A looking at Alison impartially. The girls wanted to believe she had changed. Toby and Paige were obviously going to remain suspicious of her after everything she did to them/ Caleb had never met her. He knew only what he had been told and what she was doing in the present, the fact that he formed the opinion he did says a lot about Alison, imo. If the only relatively impartial person doesn't trust her, there is a reason for that. People are the same with Toby now. They're saying he has no reason to dislike Alison and it's like, um, she blinded his step-sister and sent him to prison, literally destroyed his life, mocked his sick mother, used and manipulated his girlfriend and friend for years and set his girlfriend up for murder not all that long ago.

I'm not sure whether Alison cares or if she's trying to give the impression that she cares, and I like not knowing. Knowing either way would be so boring that it's not even worth it until the very end.

I think all the girls expect Spencer to be Spencer, but Aria doesn't even try and understand, whereas Hanna and Emily do. When they see a problem, they step in, but they don't really know how to do that because Spencer is usually the one that steps in. Aria was disgusting with the Zach stuff, tbh.

That's why Spencer/Caleb work so well. I really hate that he wasn't around for her drug stuff in 4B, because I think he would have reacted similarly to Toby in that his main concern would be how he could help her and not cornering her out of anger.

Ashley96

I actually like Mona. I tend to like the characters that hide behind a disguise or are good at manipulation. I don't know why but I do. For example, many think Stefan is boring in TVD but he actually reads people very well and is really good at manipulation. He's my fav character on there then Caroline. Definitely think we should use the "essence of best boyfriend" for the next thread. Can't wait for tomorrow's episode and the reveal of A in another week.

I think the two couples are endgame as well. I can definitely understand your conflict about the time jump. Lol! I want Ezria to be together during the time jump for the reasons you just stated.

I got the car thing. I'm just surprised he didn't tell her/ didn't fully apologize. However, he didn't argue about her needing space which is the great thing about Caleb. He picks his battles and gives her what she needs when she communicates with him like a healthy couple does.

Caleb is a great judge of character and he does not trust/like Alison. I think Sasha is a great actress and I definitely have my moments where I'm like what really goes on in Alison's head. Lol! I completely understand Paige and Toby not liking Alison and I also get why the 4 are so tied to her. For better or worse, she brought them together, was their best friend and worst enemy as Hanna said.

Spencer is pretty on point with pointing things out/helping so that's why I want her and Caleb to still be close in 6B. Hopefully, she can lean on him. I also hate that they couldn't do a Taleb tag team in 4B in regards to Spencer's drug problem. Caleb leaving messed up his characterzation and created storyline holes. Most heartbreaking moments of his leaving - Hanna's confession at the cabin about the break up and the voicemail she left him. A clear cut sign of true love if you feel that way when he has broken up with you.

I love that Spencer automatically accepted him being there in 5x05 and nonchalantly told Hanna that Caleb was with Toby at the hospital. She really does support Haleb and vice versa with Spoby.

Check in tomorrow. Maybe we can talk about episode especially if there is a Spaleb scene. Won't hold my breath tbh though.