mariem201

I am glad to know we will get some Bachel scenes. Elizabeth and David always work well together. A lot more than Billy and Liz IMO.

Heiots

Onward!





Yes. I'm learning to empathize more with Miles now. Now that I realize he is struggling himself, so I shouldn't keep blaming him for ostracizing Bass or his past behaviour. I mean, I still will because I will get mad, but he's human. He's allowed to make mistakes. He's trying to find his way, like the other characters, so I will give him a chance.

I'm trying really hard here.

There was something I read previously on tumblr. It's a reply to one of my posts, and it's similar to what you said here. It's a little long, but I think you'll enjoy it.

I've said, if I ever start to really like Miles, it will start for Rachel's sake and sanity. She needs him. He's the only male Matheson left of the family as well, and losing Ben and Danny in such a short time doesn't help the situation. As for Gene, I really like him, and I think he is what she really needs in her life. I'm hoping very hard that he sticks around.

I only wish Bass had someone.

Any hope that we might see that this season?

But I really am very curious to know where they will go from here. We know at least she's probably not going to be trying to kill him anymore. And...I don't know if I'm going to regret saying this, but I trust Bass to keep the Mathesons safe. I want him to prove to the viewers that he's not incapable of caring (though some of us already know that) and that he isn't the cold-hearted dictator that people think he is. I want the Mathesons to see that.

I saw that. Yeah, it does look like he's baiting her on purpose!
Ah, that makes sense, but dang, that would've led to a great scene too if she'd just probed a bit more at that crack in his facade.

And yes, Liz and David are wonderful together onscreen.

Heiots

Bumping thread for flightless and some art I did. Sorry for the double posts.



And this, inspired by IloveJules.

IloveJules!

Inspired by me?!!? Thank you very much.

That's an amazing art, Grace! One more parallel. We should list them all.

And the first one is really great too. Bass totally broke Rachel in this scene. Not the best Rachel/Bass moment, surely.

This art you have just made! This episode and all the scenes between Bass and Charlie. Like I already said, it brought me many Bachel feelings.

I liked those scenes with Charlie because she is a reflection of Rachel. And Bass clearly sees it very fast. So it's almost like he's talking with Rachel. With the very important difference that he sees Charlie as a kid and as Rachel's kid. So the behavior is different, of course.

I love that he's keeping his promise. I'm sure he won't hurt Charlie. And I love that he said Charlie shouldn't talk to him like that. Because you know, he does it with everyone, except Rachel (and Miles, but it doesn't matter here). In my mind he was also thinking about Rachel when he said maybe Miles could talk with him like that. But he didn't say it to Charlie because you know, it would be awkward. I'm not sure if Charlie knew (or if she remembers) that Rachel and Bass used to be friends.


Liz said it here. I'm pretty sure you have seen this video, Grace. She said if someone is responsible for causing her pain and anger, this someone is Bass. All her pain and anger is directed at him.

I also think that's very extreme. Because Rachel is responsible for the blackout in the first place. And that's why the conversation in the bunker is so amazing. Bass is the only one that can actually make her reflect about those things she has done. Because he's just like her. Both are in very similar situations. And now with the bombs. It's the same thing again. He's in the same place as her. Both of them blaming themselves about it.

Rachel and Bass must talk about it. I'm sure he would make her feel better if Bass tells her he's also responsible for what happened. Anyway, I'm sure she will blame him for taking Randall to the Tower in the first place.

Yes, it is related to her instability after everything she went through. She blames herself for so many things. And she sees a lot of Bass on her. So he's an easy target and she lashes out at him.

I honestly like it. It's much more intense and exciting than the boredom and easiness that is the Rachel and Miles relationship, IMHO. No offense to anyone who likes this pairing, of course. Just my opinion.

But Rachel has the right to behave this way towards Bass. Because of Danny and Ben.

David talked about it recently. He was talking about Charlie, but it easily applies to Rachel as well. He said Bass will have to pay for it and he's aware of it.

Here's what he says about it:


X


I will go down with this ship
And I won't put my hands up and surrender
There will be no white flag above my door
I'm in love and always will be

I couldn't help myself. Had to do it.


Same here. Maybe his son can be there for him. But it will take some time too.


I think and hope you won't regret it. He's going to keep them safe. Charlie and Rachel, at least.

We're starting to see that. When he showed Charlie he cared about the men who worked for him. And he didn't kill her. So Charlie is already seeing he's not that bad as she thinks. I believe this will happen. It's part of his redemption. But it's little by little. It's going to take some time or a long time. The redemption has to be a slow one, especially for a character like Bass. Charlie and Rachel won't forgive him so easily. They can't forgive him easily, actually, IMHO. What he did was too much.


She kind of used what he said about liking the old Bass better to manipulate him when she was talking with Bass in front of the window.


Maybe. Because they're really going for this Rachel/Miles thing.


I enjoyed it very much. I couldn't have said it any better. Actually this applies a little bit to Rachel too. The characters don't question her that much. But there's a huge difference, IMHO. The difference is that I know why Rachel behaves the way she behaves. I know she did horrible things to save her son. I know she already paid a lot and suffered a lot because of what she did. I know she tried to fix things and protect her family and by doing that she missed many years of the lives of her children. She sacrificed a lot to try to do the right thing.

Miles, on the other hand, he became a dark man and I have no idea why he started to behave like that. And against his own family. You can say anything you want about Tom. But he wouldn't do it with his own family, including Jason. Same thing with Bass.

And now Rachel is thinking she owes him something. When in reality is the contrary. It annoys me. Everything he did is being forgotten. Unless she is thinking she owes him something because of what happened with Nora. It could be that. Her guilty over Nora's death.

I'm hoping against hope Charlie and Gene will find out about all the things he did. But certainly they will forgive him easily because Rachel loves Miles and she seems to have forgiven him already.


Well, I totally agree.

~MelBelle~

I've added Flightless to the list, if there's anyone else who'd like to be added just ask.

Heiots

You're very welcome! You're helped me understand a lot about these characters. And yes, we should list all the parallels for more art. I won't say no to more delving into the similarities that they share.

I love it whenever Bass mentions Rachel in front of Charlie. I want to know what he was thinking, especially when he found those posters and when he asked if Rachel was with Miles, because he did spend those four years with her, and now that she's gone...Lyons mentioned that it was a blow to him losing Rachel (and Miles) in one interview, if my memory serves me right. Assuming the writers handle this properly, it'd make for a really really interesting and intense scene when they meet, and soon, I believe. I hoped for too much when he said he was going to return with Charlie to warn them. The writers already said Bass already has his own agenda. Right now, I don't know what exactly I should expect.

It would be so awkward. I was just thinking (going on a tangent here), I know some people ship Monroe/Charlie. Nothing against them if they do. It's a personal choice. I don't because it's not a relationship that works for me, not just because I prefer Rachel to Charlie, but he really is old enough to be her dad, not to mention the complications with his contemporaries. But who knows. I sometimes don't understand love on this show.

However, I still think it's going to take a lot for the Matheson women to even get close to cultivating a good relationship with him, so a romance might be quite impossible unless it comes from Bass' side. (Can you imagine thanksgiving, especially if Ben was still alive? I wish someone would write a fic about that. It would be so awkward with all the dysfunctional relationships, even more so if Bass actually gets together with one of the Matheson women. xD)

*clears throat* Anyway, he hasn't really hurt Charlie so far. He only did so to keep her from attacking him, like he did with Rachel.

I understand why Charlie was rude to him, but I also understand why Bass said she shouldn't talk to him like that. I mean, what does she really know about him?

No, no, no. It is also Miles. She's just blinded by love.





She probably will. Though, we've already seen that she blamed herself for the bombs anyway. Hey, now she can share that blame with Bass, and they can have their session of yelling, then a moment of identification, and who knows what else. As long as she doesn't try killing him again. It was Rachel's duty last season. Apparently, it's Charlie's turn this season.

I think it's a little like what Alex said in the EM board. If we saw the relationship develop slower onscreen, perhaps I might tolerate it a little better. Mostly, I'm just mad Miles gets the grace that Bass hasn't gotten from everyone else.

I don't know if I've mentioned it, but I kind of miss S1 Rachel. With Bass, she is unpredictable and intriguing. With Miles and Gene, they treat her like she's unable to fend for herself. I think that's how it is with Charlie too. That's why it's nice to have Charlie on her own for a while. I want Rachel to do her own thing again. She's capable of so much more than just needing to be protected. (Rachel with a machete was cool though. )

You know the Dido song!

Mind games. Mind games. *flails*

I think Lost has affected me.

And everything you said about understanding why Rachel did what she did and not why Miles did what he did. We've seen nothing that shed light on why Miles became the man that he was. Or what suddenly made him decide that what he was doing was bad. That part was just really glossed over, and it's the part that I need to see to get the character. To be honest, it's going to take quite a story to pull this one off. I'm interested to know what the writers would come up with.

I must've missed that. When was this?

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't, considering how it seems to be a habit to sweep a lot of Miles' past actions under the carpet. But yes, like you said, it might drive a temporary wedge between them and him for a bit, but it's only that, an obstacle that will be overcome when Miles does something sacrificial and then all will be forgiven. (Sorry for any undertones of bitterness here. I only wish Bass had the favour of the writers and Kripke like Miles does.)

IloveJules!

Maybe I'll do it someday. If I have more free time. Now, I don't have it. This last week was a nightmare.


I think Bass asked if Miles was with Rachel. Because he knows Miles and he was sure his former best friend would be with Rachel. I think you got your answer, Grace. Bass seems to know Miles loves Rachel.

I want to think Bass genuinely wants to help Rachel because she is wanted by this U.S. government as much as Bass himself. And when he asked if Miles was with Rachel, it was because he thinks Miles can help too. Because Bass thinks they can be as dangerous as Randall.

I expect him to try to make amends with Rachel. I feel he genuinely wants to help them all because of everything bad he did. But I can see Bass having his very own ideas and his very own agenda because this U.S. government is blaming him for the bombs and they destroyed his militia.

I think Bass is attracted to Rachel. But I have the feeling he wouldn't try something. Because of Miles and because of Rachel too. The way he talked about Miles being with Rachel. It really looks like he knows what they feel for each other. At least what Miles feels for Rachel.








Yes, I'm really enjoying them together. It reminds me of Bass and Rachel, most of the times. For me, it's not Bass and Charlie. It's Bass and Rachel's kid. Just love how he often says "your mom". Charlie totally reminds him of Rachel.


I approve this. So much.


Charlie will gave up. Just like her mom. At least I think Rachel won't try to kill him.


I understand what you mean and I agree. With Gene is more understandable because he is her father. So he will want to protect his daughter, especially now that she's recovering from a breakdown. But yes, both of them want to have complete control over Rachel's actions and that's not very nice to watch. I prefer when Rachel is free to do whatever she wants. Like when she's with Aaron. And like you said, with Bass she was completely unpredictable and awesome (now you need me!). Same thing with Charlie, actually.

And of course, Bass understands Rachel like no one else, IMHO.

I'd love to see just Rachel, Charlie and Bass together. But this will never happen, unfortunately.


When Rachel was asking Gene to help her with Miles. She said she needed to save Miles because she owes him. Because he took care of Charlie and he saved Rachel. So unfortunately, Rachel thinks she owes him.



Some hopeful spoilers for you, Grace! You said you want to see them (Rachel, Bass, Charlie and Miles) together, right?




No. Miles gets you, Grace!? He doesn't deserve someone so nice like you.

Seriously, I'm also very mad with it.


No need to feel sorry, Grace! What they're doing is unfair.


Yes. I love music. Not a super talented professional like you. But I enjoy some music.

~MelBelle~

updated the op guys
If anyone else would like to be added just ask

Also if anything else you'd like to be added in the op just ask.

Ann357

Please add me

Melbelle2 I like your avatar.

~MelBelle~

you've been added.

Thank you.

IloveJules!

Thanks very much for updating the OP, Mel!

I really appreciate that you took some of your time to do it.

You should add the rest of the scene. It's beautiful.

Heiots

We talked about the immense guilt and the self-blame, perhaps also the mental instability. We have the mindset of being willing to do anything for the family. Also, the obsession with Miles.

Yes, I think it came across that way too. It seems like Bass is well-aware that Miles has a thing for Rachel. I'm not sure if it's just Lyons playing it that way, but it makes sense if Bass knows of it. That said, I wonder what will happen now because that fact does complicate things quite a bit.

I just want the Bass/Miles and Bass/Rachel relationships to be handled right. They're the two relationships I'm most concerned about on this show. While I enjoy Rachel/Charlie very much, I'm not too worried about that getting screwed up. I think the women will make peace. We've went down the daughter-against-mother route already. I think some teaming up is next in line. It's too easy to destroy the good of what's left of the Bass/Miles and Bass/Rachel situations, especially if the writers chose to ignore all that went on last season in favour of a makeover. I hope they maintain some continuity. It'd be nice to see Bass helping Rachel again, because he really does need to score some brownie points, considering all that he's done to her.

I think he asked about Miles because he still wants to see him. I mean, old habits die hard. I don't think he's over the guy yet. To be honest, I don't think Bass ever really got free of his dependence on Miles. He may have tried telling himself he was, but I still think he's prisoner to it. Thoughts? (Sorry, this belongs in the Bass/Miles thread. I got side-tracked.)

Well, at least we've been told he has a secret agenda, so I'm prepared for the shock.

I actually had quite a laugh at the number of times Bass referred to Rachel as 'your mom' to Charlie. I would've expected him to just say 'Rachel'. It was a little strange after season one of calling her Rachel to have Bass refer to her as 'your mom'. I don't think it's that unusual or odd to call the mother's name in front of the child, but for some reason, Bass prefers not to use her mother's name in front of Charlie. It may mean something or nothing. It's just a detail that amused me.

We saw this in the bunker scene last season. Like I said, I'm just afraid with the revamp, they might have chosen to forget all of that. We've lost some of the continuity with the makeover of Revolution.

Part of me sees why because her kids mean most to her, right? He took care of Charlie (in a way, so is Bass right now), and I can see why that helped to win her over and made her feel like she owned him. Nora too. I can't say if that's enough to forgive all that he's done to her. Sometimes I get a headache from trying to figure out the logic behind the characters' actions.

I think that means we'll have some time together. It may not be anything to write home about, but I'm pretty sure Liz and David will make whatever scenes they share together worth watching.

I didn't even catch that when I posted that.

Now who said I'm super talented or even professional? I just enjoy some music too.

~MelBelle~

You're welcome and I added everything else you asked.

IloveJules!

Once again, thank you very much, Mel!



Well, Rachel and Bass.





That's a typical Rachel/Bass intense eye conversation.


My heart skipped a beat when she entered through the door.

The way he looks at her and says her name. That's just with Rachel and no one else. And she is with a gun aimed at him and he continues to intensely look at her eyes. Not to the gun. And I love that even after Miles grabs the gun, Bass can't keep his eyes off Rachel and Rachel continues to look at him.

So she continues to be very angry with him, which is very understandable. I think what happened with Randall and the bombs increased her anger. She blames him for taking Randall to the Tower, surely.

I'm not sure if she will ever forgive him. If she does, it will take a very long time. But maybe when she figures out he saved Charlie's life once again and from a gang of possible rapers. Maybe she will give up on killing him and give him a chance. Like she did before in the Tower.

I'm not sure what Bass wants. He wants to help, of course, but I hope he is doing it for Rachel and Charlie and for himself. Not exactly for Miles.

Bass and Rachel need to talk. What I would give for a honest conversation between these two. It will be a crime if they don't talk now that they are reunited and fighting for the same cause.


That's perfect. Including the need of some Miles' love.

(This thing is going to become a love triangle with Miles in the middle. Which is very unfortunate)

I'll add one tag that I read on Tumblr about them:

They're so in sync with the manipulation and paranoia.

Which is true. Both of them can be very manipulative when they want to. And both had moments of paranoia. Different situations, of course. But similar feelings. Although Rachel isn't as paranoid as people (mainly her father) thought she was. She is completely right. Bass was partially right. Some militiamen really wanted to get rid of him. But not all of them. Not Jeremy.


What do you mean by "complicate things", Grace?


Yes, they're ignoring lots of things from last season, except everything bad Bass have done. I agree if Bass wants Rachel's trust and forgiveness, he will have to prove her he deserves it. And now that they're reunited, maybe he will start showing her he wants to genuinely make up for the bad things he has done.

I'm afraid this whole Rachel/Miles, Miles/Bass and now Charlie/Bass thing will make the writers to not give so much importance to the Rachel/Bass relationship. I'm worried he's going to spend more time with Miles and Charlie than with Rachel. That would suck because I want his redemption to be mostly seen through Rachel's eyes. Because I ship Rachel is the person most affected by his bad deeds.


Oh yes, he's totally dependent on Miles. But I also think he asked about Miles because he knows Miles can be helpful. And together, they're more efficient yet. So he and Charlie would have to warn Rachel and Miles. Not just Rachel. But of course, he so wanted to see Miles again.


For me, it's because he sees Charlie as Rachel's kid.


Yes, I believe the fact Miles took care of Charlie is the most meaningful part to Rachel and maybe because he's Charlie's father. Her kids are everything to her. And Rachel thinks Bass is responsible for killing one of them. No wonder she gets completely mad at Charlie for being with him. She even let Bass go after he saved Charlie. That's why she must know Bass saved Charlie's life again. Someone needs to tell Rachel that he did it. But I hope it's not Miles.


Just the way they look at each other is worth watching.

And yes, I'm not too hopeful with what they will write for Rachel and Bass mainly because Miles and Charlie will always be between them, but...

~MelBelle~

Felt this needed to be posted cause Rachel was fantastic in faking Bass' death!





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