Cmtaylor531

Collision Course
6x14- episode discussion

Collision Course
Oliver (Stephen Amell), Diggle (David Ramsey) and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) disagree with Dinah (Juliana Harkavy), Curtis (Echo Kellum) and Rene (Rick Gonzalez) on how to handle Black Siren (Katie Cassidy). The two teams face off and a fight ensues.

Extended Promo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOXpz_fmKH8

Promotional Photos, Sneak Peeks & Others

Arrow Season 6 Episode 14 Return Date, Promo, and Details | Den of Geek

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Charlone

Thanks for making this thread!

Cmtaylor531

I feel like crap thanks to dear husband gifting his cold to me. I’m not sure if I’ll make it tonight for the episode. We shall see.

Primal Slayer

It was ok but it all felt very surface level.

When this whole rift started...I could see Dinah/Curtis' POV for being angry and wanting to talk but the writers have just crapped on this side of the storyline sooooo bad lol. Every episode has just gotten worse for being able to feel for NTA and I just can't take their self righteous attitudes anymore. You can't decide to go be a different team and then be pissed when the other team hacks you. You can't decide to track down that said team, hack one of their arms, be looking for a fight and then be pissed when one of yours gets injured! Meanwhile, Rene's daughter is probably at home, all alone watching tv wondering where her father is. I can't believe that they didn't even address that plot point!

My bad girl Siren, for once I was actually a little bit confused in places of if she was being genuine or not. Her negotiating with OTA was great though, I was loving the banter. I do think she does have moments where she really is willing to let up and play nice but then **** goes down and she is like "screw it, back to basics". Though her stealing that money made no sense timeline wise. I loved her line "I will not be caged again" and her finally playing the E1 Laurel card was smart. Though I have no idea how the team managed to lose her. She can barely run! Come on now.

Cmtaylor531

I watched it but I was half past out on couch. I am intrigued by the ending and how siren plans to pull this off.

Oh and I was annoyed because either Dinah or Curtis or someone said some line about that making them like Oliver in regards to never taking blame and I wanted to punch them. If anything. Oliver blames himself for,everything to a fault. When all this start NTA has maybe the edge or a bit of high ground but have since quickly disolved to hypocrites. They never take blame for their own actions and what their actions create. If anything. It's because of them siren as gotten away twice now.

Curtis is like the middle child and while he crossed the line hacking johns arm I still feel like he's the most tolerable even though still a hypocrite. Did he forget the time he dosed Felicity with tracking nanites and followed her to helix?

Dinah with all her rage seems to forget Vince was no saint. He might have been on th rightish side but he was worse than season one Oliver. Vigilante was by any means necessary and who cries about collateral damage. Even at Olivers worst he didn't like innocents to get hurt.

Also are we even sure Laurel has the money? This whole season as been about misdirected with hacked photos and videos. We assume it's her because of the video and money she had when she tried her escape. However she did she have time to get money? I'm thinking Alena did and manipulated video to look like Laurel because she was there when the team was divided about her when she claimed to kill Caydens son. She used Laurel to keep rift going.

I'm sure I missing a lot but my head is killing me. Time to pass out again.

Arien Siege

I don't believe Laurel actually has the money, I think she saw an opportunity to run away and took it
Anyway, I'm liking the hostility between the teams. It brought up some issues that needed to be addressed

Cmtaylor531

I'm feeling a little better today yesterday was awful. Also reading what I typed in my drug endured haze is funny. I understood what I was trying to say but man did I make it confusing. I should go back through and edit that post. I'm lazy though and don't wanna.


I don't think Laurel as the money either. When did she have time to,get it? That's my problem. I still think Alena. I don't trust her. She has to be around for a reason and besides just giving Felicity a friend. I think Alena is playing them. She took money and manipulated that video to look like Laurel cause she knew about the teams rift.

Laurel just say she has the money to use as leverage to help her get away.

Regan

I'm ready to see the back of the new team. They had their moments earlier on, but the split between them and Original Team Arrow brought home for me that (a) the team and show had begun to feel very overcrowded, and (b) that they weren't needed, certainly not on a full time basis.

Until this episode, I thought that an amicable parting would be best, and that maybe they could pick another city and set up shop there, offscreen, with the option of a guest spot for a very major threat. I no longer think that they deserve that pleasant an exit.

I had very limited sympathy with their complaints about Oliver not trusting them as much as he trusts his wife and his close friend and ally of 5-6 years, especially given that one of them was the traitor. Their complaints might have felt more justified if it had turned out that there never was a team member willing to testify against Oliver, that it was false information planted to divide the team.

I also can't muster up much sympathy for Dinah over Vince's death. If anything, her insistence on rushing to his rescue rather than helping to deal with the threat to the city first may have sealed his fate. Had the two teams worked together, prioritising the greater threat before going to rescue Vince, he might have had a better chance of surviving.

After what Curtis did to Diggle in this episode, I don't want to see him allowed back into the fold. It doesn't say anything pleasant about him as a person that he would suggest using medical technology to torture somebody. His actions could potentially have seriously injured or even killed Diggle, Oliver and Felicity, had Diggle been driving and crashed as a result of Curtis hacking the implant. That was a deal breaker for me.

In the future, Felicity's company is called Smoak Technologies, which would indicate that whatever she is going to do, she is not going to need help from Curtis to do it.

Rene's injuries sound like they could potentially leave him incapable of combat in the future, so he may be out of the picture already.

I don't know if the writers want it to seem like a situation where both sides have equally valid points but, if so, that's not what is coming across, at least not to me.

On another note, Black Siren's latest ploy has a lot of potential, especially if people don't magically forget that Oliver revealed Laurel to be the Black Canary. This will not only allow her to move in public, she could end up revered as a hero. I like the idea that Black Siren doesn't have the money, especially as it opens up the question of who has it and how/why they framed Black Siren.

On the money front, did I miss something or is Felicity not still a billionaire? I know that she was ousted as CEO but Ray transferred ownership of the company to her, not just his role as CEO. I'd have thought that that would mean that she still owns the majority of Palmer Tech's stock, would be entitled to dividends, etc. The company should be doing well, between the spinal implant and battery, so would selling some of her shares to raise $70 million be an option for her?

Charlone

Oh sorry to came here with a comment like this, but what was this, a teenage drama episode? I cannot stand anymore Helix's team (New Team Arrow?) behaviour anymore. Rene's life is at risk because of Dinah's childish attitude, and the thing that most surprises me is that a smart boy like Curtis support everything she thinks. They were the whole reason of why Star City is going to have problems with money, and the most funny thing is that Rene's actions are the main reason of why his life will be at a high risk. They have done horrible, horrible things, they are the guilty ones for everything.
I'm so mad that this season has handled that fight between both teams, crowded TA was good while it lasted.
But well I don't blame the characters, but Arrow writers and producers, and whoever participated on creating this weak and annoying plot
*Kinda subtle rant moment finished*

The good thing of this episode is everything that involves Laurel and Quentin. And I very much agree with Oliver's decisions and his attitude.

Regan

TVTropes seems to be calling them the Outsiders. I suppose they can't really be called New Team Arrow since they don't have an archer in their midst.

I can sort of understand why Curtis may be supporting Dinah. Based on the way he was at the wedding reception, it wouldn't surprise me if there was a part of him that regretted his decision to join Team Arrow. He has paid a high personal cost. On a professional level, while he would have been let go from Palmer Tech at the beginning of Season 4 if not for Felicity, his resignation when she was fired as CEO has also cost him.

As I said before, I had limited sympathy with the complaints about not being trusted, and virtually all of that sympathy was for Curtis, who least deserved to be treated with suspicion. The timing was also very unfortunate, in the sense that, at a time when he may have been questioning whether joining Team Arrow was the right call for him, he learned that Oliver didn't trust him. That has to have been a slap in the face.

I think that at least part of his reason for his choice to back Dinah is that he identifies with her and Rene as people who were hurt and angry that they were not trusted.

As for Rene, while I have no doubt that he, Dinah and Curtis will blame Oliver for his injuries, he was given every chance to back down. He can blame his own foolishness and stubbornness.

I'm curious about how the writers see the divide. I honestly can't tell if Curtis, Rene and Dinah are supposed to be sympathetic and justified, or if this rift is the exit plan for the characters.

Cmtaylor531

You are not alone Gina. We are all baffled. Dinah seems to have forgotten Vince was not saint. Vince was season one Oliver but worse. He didn’t care about collateral damage or death of innocents.

When the rift for started it at least made some semblance of sense. Or atleast I had sympathy for Rene. That quickly vanished.

I do think Curtis is sort of stuck in the middle and maybe a bit of him losing his marriage over his choices sort of fueled him since dong with the other team

Charlone

Vince wasn't an angel. Dinah wanted revenge, to kill Laurel just because... she killed Vince. When Vince murdered people... I mean what kind of revenge is that one, it is just something personal and a true vigilante may know that personal things in a mission will ruin it.

Totally agree... this has been on the tv show for long at this point. Never thought it would go so extreme and no sense.

@Regan well, but Curtis should understand that all what happened to him is a consequence of his decisions. No one forced him to become a vigilante, he felt it. No one forced him to stay as a vigilante and lose his husband. He has no right to blame anyone from Team Arrow. Not even doing something so horrible like what he did to Diggle. That truly shows that they are not able nor should be vigilantes. They are dangerous and do more bad than good. That shows that they can go into the darkness just to do what they want, at any cost.

And Team Arrow was right to not trust them. Why did they even complain? They showed why TA didn't trust them. The three - Rene with his confession about Oliver is Green Arrow, Dinah keeping contact with Vince, an enemy and sby who tried to murder them several times, Curtis tortured Diggle just to help Dinah about her whim. But well, to be honest, Diggle had his own secret too.

The bad thing is that writers have gone too far with this. They should have stopped it. I just hope they don't try to find a return point after this because it just does not exist anymore.

Regan

I think that this is where Curtis shows his immaturity. He helped Team Arrow of his own free will in Season Four, and flat-out demanded that Oliver make him part of the field team in Season Five. As I said, I can understand that he'd be upset not to be trusted but if he is honest with himself, he'd have to admit that he made the call to join, and the call to stay when his husband wanted him to quit. Any consequences for this decision are on him. It's not as if he couldn't have been spared; Felicity had the Overwatch angle covered, they had multiple fighters in the field, and Cisco can be relied on to supply fantastic gizmos.

Rene doesn't seem to get that he doesn't get to whine about Oliver not trusting him while he is actively betraying Oliver. He can consider his reasons for testifying justifiable, by all means, but he can't say "How dare you not trust me when I'm going behind your back to testify against you!"

At this point, I think that he and Curtis aren't siding with Dinah because they agree with her but because her side isn't Oliver's.

As a deliberate exit strategy for the newbies in order to trim the cast, it works. It may not be an amicable exit, but it could be a final one. They have created a situation where it is very believable that the newbies will never be part of Team Arrow again. It is also believable that Curtis would walk away from vigilantism altogether, and that Rene may have to quit because he is no longer physically capable of doing the job. Dinah could either stay in Star City as a faceless member of the police force, or she could go to another city as cop and/or solo vigilante. A heartwarming reconciliation and a reunited team, on the other hand, is not believable.

Whether or not the writers have gone too far depends on what their intended endgame is.

Alexa

I really liked this episode. One of my favs from the whole season, its as awesome. I just liked the suspense and the action...

I loved the focus on Laurel and i don't blame Q for wanting to help her and feeling something towards her. Also Oliver and his team wanting to let her go for the money imo made sense. If they killed her they wouldnt have gotten the money back. It seemed unecessary.

The other three really irritated me this episode. Dinah is just looking for revenge and Curtis took things too far hurting Diggle. They are the ones that started the war imo. And then all three of them saying they were never valued. Huh??? And Curtis saying they never wanted to see them again? WTF. This is the worst storyline. i really dont like this two sides thing at all and Im not sure how they are ever going to resolve this realistically? Like everyone else above, now Im just annoyed with them and dont want them around.

Exactly. They are mad at Team Arrow for doing literally exactly what they are now doing? Makes no sense.