[Cmtaylor531]

Blood Debts
4x10 - Episode discussion

ARROW
“Blood Debts” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)
THE AFTERMATH — Oliver (Stephen Amell) must deal with the devastating consequences of Darhk’s (guest star Neal McDonough) last attack. Seeking revenge, Oliver goes on a brutal manhunt looking for Dahrk. Jesse Warn directed the episode written by Oscar Balderrama & Sarah Tarkoff (#410). Original airdate 1/20/2016.

Promotional photos and episode Comic Preview:

Arrow - Episode 4.10 - Blood Debts - Promotional Photos + Comic Preview *Updated* | Spoilers

Sneak Peaks:
None yet

Basic Rules:

• Be Respectful of other posters. Not everyone is going to agree or have the same views.
• Discussions are encouraged, but let’s keep things civil.
• No Character/Actor Bashing. We love your opinions on storylines, but keep in mind that these are real people who are just trying to do the best with what they are given. We might not always like how things turn out, but just remember things can always get better.
• Everything is a spoiler until it has aired.
• Any talk of Illegal Downloading should not be brought up here. Live Streams & such can be discussed through PM's.
• Most importantly, HAVE FUN!

[Primal Slayer]

Overall, I enjoyed it. Was surprised by how much Laurel had to do lol. Her finding out about Q/D was awkward but nice to know she has his back in finding love. If she isn't the one in the grave, they really need to stop this whole "Laurel is last to find out" shtick they have going on since S1. Laurels/Olivers temporary difference in "justice" could've been such a good storyline to play out for about 2 episodes but oh well.

I really wish they would learn that they can split up the team and send them on different missions instead of everyone tagging along all the time. It would've been real easy to have Oliver/John focus mainly on DD while Laurel/Speedy deal with Anarky.

Speedy/Anarky storyline was good, though I would love it if he would've stalked her for a hot minute and get a creepy storyline out of that. But it was good to finally get away from so many Ghosts.

The flashbacks as usual, I wish they weren't there and that we just kept to the present to explore more of all the storylines going on.

Felicity being completely paralyzed is just stupid, unnecessary drama and I rather they just have her in recovery and it take like 3 episodes for her to recover.

All these New Gods references, wonder if they will go full throttle and actually introduce some of em.

And now everyone can rejoice that Felicity isn't in the grave and we can continue on with the annoying "Laurel is dead! Thea is dead! Quentin is dead!"

[eternalfate]

Four Months From Now... and still teasing of that grave scene. Man, it's still time to be worried about every character.
"It's not my fault, it's my responsibility." .... I'm just trying to figure out Oliver's expression in that first scene... seems like disbelief and anger... just wish we didn't know what was coming four months from now.

Also it still upset me to see Oliver's hair in the Island Flashbacks. how in the world is his hair looking like that?

I love that even in her bad state, Felicity still finds a way to make humor out of it.

I love Diggle change to beating the answers out of Andy. Shows how important Felicity is to him. The best thing is that he succeeded in getting the location. You'll forever be my favorite Diggle... the writers better not do something stupid and kill off Dig...
I loved the Lyla and Diggle scene. They are really a lovely couple.
The advice that Lyla gave to Diggle was just on point, treat him like a brother... of course I can understand why Diggle was having a difficult time doing that.
I really just care so much about Diggle love for Felicity, how he said she was better than both he and him combined. We haven't got much of their scenes lately but the love shared is great, nice to see great friendships.

That ending scene with Andy and Diggle was awesome. Slowly turning into brothers again... I just enjoy seeing this relationship more than I thought I would, and it's all because of great writing.

The best thing about Andy being alive is that we are learning so much more about Diggle's past. I'm so happy about this.

Aww Thea with her bloodlust, I love her having this scene with Laurel discussion how much it's effecting her, good job writers! The scenes with Lonnie and Thea Queen was greaat tonight. Lonnie trying to get under her skin by making her hurt him with words and it's proven that she has the control, not the bloodlust. .. oh and I enjoyed her scenes with the campaign manager.

Of course I disliked the scene between Laurel and Oliver at the Arrow Cave, the biggest difference with Lonnie and Sara be out is that Laurel didn't willing let Sara out... but anyway.... I loved the scene with Laurel and Quentin in the hospital and how Laurel just accepted Quentin's relationship with Donna. Nice she just wants him happy. I enjoyed how light the scene was, we can never get enough of that.

Willa Holland is just rocking it as Speedy.

Huge round of applause for Emily Bett Rickards, she did a perfect acting job tonight. I feel so bad for Felicity. It's so sad when she felt that Oliver was going to leave her... he quickly assured her that he's in it all the way though, his love for her is that strong. They will fight this together and I can't wait to see how it happens.

Damien Dark and Oliver Queen showdown?... did nothing for me.
That last scene. It better not be Diggle. After this, it has to be Diggle or Donna because Felicity wouldn't be that upset as to want Oliver to kill again if it wasn't one of them.

[Cmtaylor531]

I really enjoyed the episode. It had a lot of good moments. The flashbacks are still yawn but at list they went somewhere tonight

I'm really enjoying the Thea/Anarchy story line so might also be why I liked the episode.

I did love Laurel finding out about Lance and Donna and basically saying she just wanted him to be happy.

Oliver was kind of a jerk tonight but it was expected and maybe he gets a little pass since his fiancé was in the hospital. I did think he was a little over the line with the comment to Laurel about Sara because Laurel didn't purposely set Sara lose like he did anarchy.

It was nice to see that Laurel still believes in her job and the law to an extent. I've kind of missed that part of her life. I've been wanting to see her struggle more with her vigilante life and how it conflicts with her upholding the law.

The F/O hospital scene was just I used to be like 90% F/O still 10% L/O but these two are killing me this season.

I love that we now have a person crossed off who could be in the grave. That ending scene with Felicity in the limo.

I hope has the season goes on we continues to see them eliminate possibilities of who could be in the grave.

[telamon]

It seems to me that more than likely it will be Donna. I don't see Felicity throwing away her rule of not killing anyone. Also it looks likely that they aren't engaged at that point. At least, the ring isn't on her finger, considering that they made a point of putting the ring on her finger again in the hospital.

[pollock]

Strong episode to come back too with some very interesting set ups for the rest of the season, although i have to say that for me Felicitys absence for a lot of th ed ep definately was felt Her lightness humor and optimism leaves a definite hole in the super serious melodramatic rest of Team Arrow.

I loved Thea/ Anarchy Best storyline of the night easily. I got definite Kilgrave/Jessica Jones vibes from them. I definately want to see them continue to explore that dynamic and Thea guilt and responsibility. Plus I loved Anarchy as a villian in 4x02 anyway and since Wendy mentioned that she would like to keep him around for future seasons pending the actors availability Im here for that.

So happy to see ass kicking Oliver who didnt need the super friends to take down bad guys was back but there was still a little bit of falling down at a drop of the hat lets the villians run off easily Oliver. The action scenes just havent been as sharp this season I got more of a thrill watching the behind the scenes stunt doubles rehersal of the scenes they I have watching the aired versions. Although the Green Arrow Speedy Anarchy fight was awesome.

Loved Olivers flirting with morality and justice This was definately a good episode to debate whether the ends justify the means with Oliver and Laurel playing the pro and con of the debate. Im happy and proud Oliver came round in the end and didnt fall to far from the edge and that the rest of the team rallied around to pull him back.

Also fyi Laurel it was totally fair for Oliver to bring up Sara It did bug me that she never accepted accountability or admitted guilt in the women who were killed by Sara for her choices or that she was encouraging Quetin to cover up the causes of their deaths from their loved ones the police and the rest of Team Arrow. To me that wasnt an unfair dig but a valid rebuttal.

That being said Laurel was really great this episode and Katie as well. She seemed to be the one who was staying strong while Dig Oliver and Thea were struggling around her. She definately fully evolved in t o her role as a hero and seems matured and confident in who she is and what she stands for and seems devoid of the same struggles and personal limitations that Oliver still is working through and Diggle and Thea are starting to go through. She seems to have worked through her crucible a lot faster.

Second best storyline of the night was definately Andy and Diggle Im loving the actor who plays Andy and the energy he brings to the show I definately hope he sticks around. Pleasent surprise to see Lyla back. I still cant decide if Andy is legit or if he has some hidden agenda and is infiltrating HIVE but I loved learning more about the boys past.

My poor baby Oliver. Him not going to the hospital made perf ed ct sense to me and was perfectly in character. I dont think he was being a jerk. Oliver has watched his father Yao Fei Shado Sara twice Akio Tommy his mother Sara again and Thea die in front of him. So many people he has cared about. Felicity is the only person he has ever been inlove with and probably the only person he will ever love. She was some one he couldnt sit and watch die, she was someone hd couldnt bare to see in pain after h ed has seen so much pain and death already.

He was doing some serious denial and compartmentalising. Taking all the repressed and powerful fears and emotions he was feeling over Felicity anc chanelling that into eliminating Darhk. And I lov ed that Felicity totally understood that on some level. The scene where he starts to show signs of breaking down because his plan didnt work was really emotional for me.

The Olicity scenes were so moving and beautiful Im not sweating the Flash Forward at all beacuse as far as Im concerned they already got unofficailly married with their for better or worst and wanting to run off to Bali which sounded like Oliver subtly suggesting eloping to me-forshadowing to them going to Bali to elope at the end of the season prehaps?

Emily and Stephen killed it! I loved Felicitys vulnerability peeking through her attempts to be strong when she feared Oliver might be rethinking being with her and Oliver putting a stop to that thinking right away. Something tells me thats just the tip of the ice berg for Felicity I think her post traumatic stress and paralysis combined with her abandonment issues wither father her hesistancy rejoining Team Arrow and any mistakes shes makes re-entering the feild plus learning Oliver has been lying to her and not trusting her about William and the fact that Oliver has a son and a somewhat family that she might not physically be able to give him is going to eat into Felicitys selfworth and insecurities and lead her into the angry ngagement ring less Felicity four months from now. And like Oliver stepped up to reaffirm his love for her this episode I hope and feel he will be that person again for her the rest of the season.

As for the flash forward to me I feel like Lance doesnt work anymore. To me Laurel has definately been pushed up th ed list as she was saying and doing all the right things which cojld be set up for a heroes death, this is th ed first time Diggles ever crossed my mind although I just cant see them leaving Oliver with no male friend to bond with and I think Diggle as essential to Olivers character as Felicity is. Oliver still wasnt emotional enough for it to be Thea and Felicitys anger made me seriously wonder if its Donn a for th ed first time even though its still not a Jewish burial site. So right now Laurel and Donna have ratched up a notch.

Since Wendy has refused to answer whether the "he" is Damien Darhk and Ive long suspected its actually someone else mainly Malcolm Felicitys intense anger has made me wonder if its possibly her Father that kills whoever. Also not ruling out Anarchy.

Love thd House of Cards Frank and Claire vibes Damien and his wife were giving off. Something tells me his wife will end up being the worst of the two.

Two cool moments: Oliver freeing Anarchy and askinv him to kill DD and actually sounding like hd meant it and Damien agreeing to a truceafter Oliver saved his family.

[Cmtaylor531]

Since Wendy has refused to answer whether the "he" is Damien Darhk and Ive long suspected its actually someone else mainly Malcolm Felicitys intense anger has made me wonder if its possibly her Father that kills whoever. Also not ruling out Anarchy.

Im still sold on the "him" not being Darhk either. I think its Merlyn as well. From the second half trailer it looks like Merlyn and Oliver are gonna try their hands at buddying up again and maybe helping each other out.

I can't help but think about last season when Oliver came back from fighting Ras the first time. Felicity had such a strong reaction to Oliver working with Malcolm. She couldnt believe he dared take any help from Malcolm. Yes they've used him always with mistrust again sporadically since then. However, I could see Felicity being against working with Malcolm and whoever is in that Grave might be in some way a result of something Malcolm did or started. Since I'm off the Thea might be in the grave train. Im on a new train. The Thea perhaps killed the person in the grave train. We see once again tonight the nod back to the fact that Damien Darks magic doesnt work on her. Then we had Anarchy who seems like he is going to continuously test her control of the blood lust. Something is gonna happen that causes Thea to loose control and I'm gonna to mostly blame Malcolm but Oliver as well for agreeing to go along with Malcolms plan. He wouldn't be above using Thea's immunity and maybe it backfires in a big way.

Yes Yes... I know crazy speculation.



So, i was reading reviews for the episode which were a mix of positive and negative. However, several annoyed me because the huge complaint was Oliver should have been there at the hospital. Yes he should have been but it was very in character for him not to have been. So how is that a strike against the episode? If anything its a positive for sticking with what seems natural for Oliver to do. Oliver has showed time and time again that he dent handle emotions well. Yes, he has grown and is trying to improve but he hasn't dealt with all his demons so he's going to have that tendency sliding back into what he's comfortable with (just like the awful William lie). The flashbacks suck but at the some time we always learn more about what terrible things Oliver had to endure. So i dont see him being ready to completely let go of that past and fully be the new green arrow until we have finished the Flashback arc. Okay not the point. The point was Oliver doesn't like doing nothing. He couldn't physically do anything for Felcitiys. He's not a doctor. So he does what he know he can do and that is find Darhk and make him pay for hurting the person he loves.

He admitted to Felicity in the end that it was unforgivable and he should have been there. Yet, he also said he just didn't want to come to her until he could tell her that Darhk was taken care off the table. He would have gotten some sort of payback and retribution for what Darhk did her. Thats how Oliver deals and in his way that how he shows someone that he cares.

[Logan]

cliffhanger on top of another clifffhanger .. Flash forward What is this LOST Falicity is said to have permanent spinal damage never walk yet the final scene she was sitting and shown standing I understand this was a 4 month jump ahead . I can only speculate that perhaps ray was able to develop something to make her able to walk again . Even post episode interview with showrunner gave us no clues as to who is in the grave .

Falicity was more upset over the death then oliver , I can't even specualte who ...

episode itself was very good start to new year . a lot happend in 45 min , we see Damion Dark wife is just as evil as he is . Diggle , with some push from his wife, tries to be brother be positive to his own brother . to reach out goodstuff .Laurel Oliver i like there dynamic there difference of right and wrong etc. speedy and her battle with Anarchy, they have a big history snd look forward to more stuff with them .

[pollock]

Agreed Crystal! It bugged me how many people didn't get why Oliver was staying away the way he did Jbuffyangel in her amazing review of the episode also pointed out that I Oliver was trying to fix or help on the only way he thought he could He can't stop what was happening to Felicity he can't control that and for a control freak like Oliver who loves Felicity more the he has loved anyone that was a scary thing But what he could do is take care of Darhk for her and hd really wanted to be able to go to her hospital room and tell her that he had stopped once and for all the monster who did this to her. She also made a good critique in the difference between Oliver's reaction when Thea was in the hospital and his panicked he was to when Felicity was taken to the hospital and he seemed disorientated in disbelief and completely numb to everything happening around him which was slot more alarming. His absence had nothing to do with an absence of love but was in his unique way the very act of how much he loves her that he wanted to be able to fix things for her. And he has learnt from not being there he has realised he was wrong yo stay away and I think as Felicity loses herself to darkness it will be Olicer who will be there to try and pull her back to the light and hopefully eventually back to him.

[Primal Slayer]

Originally Posted by pollock (View Post) Also fyi Laurel it was totally fair for Oliver to bring up Sara It did bug me that she never accepted accountability or admitted guilt in the women who were killed by Sara for her choices or that she was encouraging Quetin to cover up the causes of their deaths from their loved ones the police and the rest of Team Arrow. To me that wasnt an unfair dig but a valid rebuttal.

While I agree that Laurel should've taken more accountability, there is a difference between what Laurel did and what Oliver did. Laurel didn't willingly let Sara escape whereas Oliver willingly let Anarky escape. Laurel was trying to track Sara down while Oliver just left him to be on the loose just in the hope that he would go directly after DD. Of course Laurel was lucky that Sara only dealt major damage to criminals but she still had a right to call Oliver out. Both are very narrow sighted which they need to work on.

[Charlone]

Thanks Crystal for opening the thread, I'll post later my opinion about the episode because I couldn't watch it yet.

[PhoenixRising]

So I see that Arrow is continuing its long tradition of stealing from Batman, making Felicity Barbara Gordon to Oliver's Bruce Wayne. I just hope they don't use the name Oracle, because that's Barbara's... and I don't think they're allowed to anyway.

[Cmtaylor531]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising (View Post) So I see that Arrow is continuing its long tradition of stealing from Batman, making Felicity Barbara Gordon to Oliver's Bruce Wayne. I just hope they don't use the name Oracle, because that's Barbara's... and I don't think they're allowed to anyway.

In the preview for next week if you look close enough you see Felicity's code name. It's not Oracle. No worries. Plus I doubt she'll stay paralyzed. Curtis will maybe use Rays nano tech to heal her. Something anyway, Felcity and Curtis still have that board deadline about the amazing technology they have to debut to not fire all the people.

[Against_all_odds]

I'm positive it's Donna. Maybe it's just me, but I kind of shipped Anarchy/Thea in this episode.

I don't like the Felicity being paralyzed thing-How the hell can she function 4 months later?

I agree with Alex about stealing from Batman, though. Felicity isn't Babs and can't be. She'll pale in comparison and they'd still have no Huntress. Thea can't be in their version of Birds of Prey. The current Speedy in the comics is a girl,so they can't change that.

[pollock]

Originally Posted by Against_all_odds (View Post) I'm positive it's Donna. Maybe it's just me, but I kind of shipped Anarchy/Thea in this episode.

Lol I didn't ship them in a lets get together romantically way but I absolutely want to see more of them and see their relationship evolve I see it as more like Jessica/Kilgrave absolutely in no way should their relationship be romanticised or seen as shipper worthy but they make damn good and interesting television. As for Donba she and Felicity are Jewish and they don't have headstones at their graves till a year after their burial it's also against tradition to bring flowers you bring rocks instead Since they have had Felicity and Donba make many pointed references to their heritage and customs I think we are suppose to view them as practicing Jews Plus the writers have said the death is a prominent character who will be shocking and game changing which I feel Donna is neither