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Old 11-01-2012, 05:45 PM
  #31
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Seriously this show, when it's good it's great but the some parts seriously need to be written better.

Is every week going to be Laurel blindly reaching out to Oliver only to end up feeling completely screwed over by him at the end of the episode. Because while they varied the routine with having her meet Arrow this week, the method is already lather, rinse and repeat.

What was she even doing at the house at the start of the episode? Neither Thea or Moira even asked him about where he'd been the night before. Neither seemed frantic as Laurel was making them out to be. Last week she was all screw you, I owe you nothing but now we're back to basics.

Personally I think that the show has to stop focusing so much on the Laurel/Oliver pairing and start writing the show as an ensemble. Firstly, to me there's nothing rootable about their backstory. He cheated on her with her sister. There's no way I'm buying they were some epic love story before the island. Katie Cassidy is a good actress and I think her and Amell have great chemistry. It's just that for me, the writing for this relationship is awful. They're randomly shoe horning Laurel into scenes with Oliver that make her character look weak. The writers should let this develop naturally instead of forcing it.

Paul Blackthorne is a great actor and again, I think he's just a victim of really lame writing. I get that he's angry but it would be great if we could get a scene that's not him treating Laurel like a 12 year old or the Queen's like garbage. I'd love a scene with him and Laurel talking about Mother Lance or Sarah.

I like Oliver, especially when he's being sort of cocky. The scenes with Diggle's replacement were great. As were the scenes with Diggle. Im glad he's on board.

I am looking forward to seeing how Oliver gets out of this latest mess though.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:25 PM
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Personally I think that the show has to stop focusing so much on the Laurel/Oliver pairing and start writing the show as an ensemble. Firstly, to me there's nothing rootable about their backstory. He cheated on her with her sister. There's no way I'm buying they were some epic love story before the island. Katie Cassidy is a good actress and I think her and Amell have great chemistry. It's just that for me, the writing for this relationship is awful. They're randomly shoe horning Laurel into scenes with Oliver that make her character look weak. The writers should let this develop naturally instead of forcing it.

Now I don't agree much with the other part of your post but I agree with this ^ I don't understand their love... and this is coming from a person who is usually a Dinah/Oliver fan... although on Smallville I liked Dinah/Oliver but Chloe/Oliver was my couple but on to the point here.
I just don't get it, he cheated on her with her sister and I'm suppose to buy Oliver/Laurel as the epic love story? I don't buy it as well. Probably it's just me needing more back-story on the situation since I can't move past that but I do find myself not enjoying this relationship as much as I would like to.

I actually enjoyed all the Tommy/Laurel stuff more.

We'll see what happens though because I don't hate their scenes, I see so much potential, i just want to know more of their back-story.
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Old 11-01-2012, 06:47 PM
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honestly I dont see Laurel having feelings for Tommy. It seems very one sided. Personally if she is still in love with Ollie, she shouldn't get involve with him.

as for the whole cheating on the sister plot line, it just seems like the writer's pointless (annoying) attempt to keep them apart as long as possible. Other than being an obstacle in the Laurel/Oliver relationship. Sarah Lance is a very pointless character.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:04 PM
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She might be pointless but the fact that it happened is the very reason why I find the romance so unappealing. I'd be all for Laurel/Oliver slowly falling in love with each other now but the fact that we're supposed to buy they in love before they accident. To cheat is one thing, but to use her sister is a low and shows Oliver had no respect for their relationship.

I think I'd need an episode where they flashback to the former relationship and maybe show why Oliver went off with Sarah because right now, the writers attempt to sell this is just not good.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:09 PM
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personally I think just think Oliver was immature five years ago.

But I do agree with you, a flashback or Oliver telling her why he invited Sarah along is needed. (Of course Sarah is to blame as well, after all she did agree to it.)
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:43 PM
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Oh yeah, I think Sarah is even worse because Laurel was her sister. I just don't buy Oliver was ever in love with Laurel before the accident and I feel like the show is trying to tell me he was.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:45 PM
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I think he was in love with.
But I don't know if he necessary realized it until he was on the island.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:55 PM
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honestly I dont see Laurel having feelings for Tommy. It seems very one sided. Personally if she is still in love with Ollie, she shouldn't get involve with him.

as for the whole cheating on the sister plot line, it just seems like the writer's pointless (annoying) attempt to keep them apart as long as possible. Other than being an obstacle in the Laurel/Oliver relationship. Sarah Lance is a very pointless character.
I feel it will be one sided as well, but I really can't officially judge that since they did have five years of Oliver disappearance to truly bond. Judging by their interaction, Laurel didn't want to get involved with him cause she doesn't see him as a one woman kind of man.

It might be, but it still happened. No matter how annoying or pointless it may be, it did happen. We can't ignore that as viewer. Sleeping with someone sister when you are dating is just low. I love Oliver and I love Laurel but right now I'm not positive on how I feel about them together.
I'm all for obstacles, but I do wish the writers had made Laurel be upset a little longer. She seemed only upset for the first half of episode 1x01 and then that was it.

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She might be pointless but the fact that it happened is the very reason why I find the romance so unappealing. I'd be all for Laurel/Oliver slowly falling in love with each other now but the fact that we're supposed to buy they in love before they accident. To cheat is one thing, but to use her sister is a low and shows Oliver had no respect for their relationship.

I think I'd need an episode where they flashback to the former relationship and maybe show why Oliver went off with Sarah because right now, the writers attempt to sell this is just not good.
I'm 100% with you on this. It is so difficult to get the Oliver/Laurel relationship when it obviously wasn't good enough for him to not be with her sister of all people. I think that was a part of the old playboy Oliver though, but it doesn't erase that it happened and I'd like to get flashbacks of the past to show why did it happen. I would think if was for Oliver to be Oliver... just to probably push Laurel away? but I would like to know [if true' why did he feel he had to do that. Or did he really share a connection with Sarah? I just don't know.
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Old 11-01-2012, 07:55 PM
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I just don't buy Oliver was ever in love with Laurel before the accident and I feel like the show is trying to tell me he was.
I don't know if he was or wasn't, but if he was, it was definitely a case of "selfish people love selfishly" with Oliver a selfish person.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:11 PM
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I think on some level he may care for Sarah. I mean in episode 1x02, it seemed like her death affected him considering I believe there was a flashback of her death scene in the courthouse. Of course it could be the guilt talking as well.

Honestly regardless of the promo for next week. I think it would take awhile before they are together again. They may still have feelings for each other, but I think they will decide they need some time apart, or at least take it slow. And start with a friendship before escalating to a romantic level.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:47 PM
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I just don't get it, he cheated on her with her sister and I'm suppose to buy Oliver/Laurel as the epic love story?
I dont think that they are trying to make them into an epic love story that is for the viewer to decide if they are or they aren't. They are just telling a story of two people who have a very complicated past trying to work through it. Its like with what Arrow (vigilante) is doing, its up to the viewer whether he is a hero or isnt.

Cheating/affairs happens to some people, even in real life, some couples do comes back from it and actually get stronger. Some don't. They have chosen to go the former road, and represent how some people will try to overcome the odds. If it works, then some will say its an epic love story, some will say it isn't. All up to how each individual sees it.


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Personally I think that the show has to stop focusing so much on the Laurel/Oliver pairing and start writing the show as an ensemble.
I think as the leading man and lady they will have more airtime, up to this episode, I didnt see laurel having that much airtime. I doubt they need to write the show as an esemble its supposed to be very much focused on Arrow/Ollie, and how he is connected to those close to him, and his missions.I don't know, totally I would like to see more other supporting cast getting backstories, which ultimately there will, hopefully with multiple seasons, right now they seem more focused on Oliver/Arrow. I agree the show shouldn't be about the romance btwn Ollie & Laurel, I do want them to keep the balance where the centre of the show is Ollie/Arrow, and how he is connected to everyone and everything around him. However i do think Laurel is probably the second person they will focus on more after Ollie and the relationship they have, followed maybe by Tommy, he wasnt in this episode but I have a feeling he will get major arcs later on, then Thea, John...as characters and the 'ship they have with Ollie. Some episodes will be focused more on some relationships or characters than others and vice versa. I also think that some character development will happen in the comic tie ins, like this week they dug on John diggle and his backstory, last week it was China White's, so hopefully we see some of that translate on screen

I know sometimes when shows have a main romance thats they are pushing, it does seem like they want everyone to ship it, but It really isnt the case, it would be just part of a story, sometimes a huge part but not the whole story. I have felt some pressure like that in other shows to like the main romance. I think in the end the best thing is just to like the other stuff thats on offer that you like. In the show they have the Ollie/diggle, Ollie/thea, Ollie/walter/moira, Ollie/tommy and so on, even Ollie/other L.Is. Inevitably though Ollie/laurel will likely have more airtime due to billing and other reasons but I do think so far that the other relationships do get their due IMO.

They are some supporting characters that need more focus true, with time I think their stories and arc will unfold, shows most always start with focus on a few leads and then they widen out to to flesh out other charaters with time.


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as for the whole cheating on the sister plot line, it just seems like the writer's pointless (annoying) attempt to keep them apart as long as possible. Other than being an obstacle in the Laurel/Oliver relationship
Yeah it was kind of a huge plot device really, I do agree we have to know more backstory of what happened with Sarah & Ollie when they took off on that boat or what was happening before they did. Even though some of more info will be explained. I just think that its already explained why Ollie did what he did and it all comes down to this:
HE WAS A JERK, selfish, immature, womaniser etc. I doubt there is any much more to that imo.

I totally understand why cheating is a huge thing for people to get past I really do. I think the way the writers went about is probably in the worst way possible...so they could create huge rifts between Ollie & the lances, and maybe to magnify how bad Ollie really was pre-island, its huge.

However we are watching a man who kills people in cold blood, and has done all of these immoral things in his past life. I just think that if we can forgive Oliver for all the things he has done, and he get a second chance to be somebody better, then the romance too deserve a second chance too. I see Ollie is rootable and loveable in fandom despite all that happened, what he has done to himself or to other people, then i think its no surprise that some are rooting and loving the romance despite everything. They are playing at redeeming Oliver Queen, so maybe the romance has a chance too, in the end who knows if either or both will be sucessful. I'm certainly not saying people who don't ship them should, not at all, if some cant get past it then thats OK, totally cool. Like I said, they are quite some more other things on offer in Arrow to root for.


I'm just saying the show is no fairytale as is the man behind the mask, the romance is just one part of the dark and sleazy things that has happened and will likely happen in the show. It doesnt seem like the creators will be shying away from going down those dark paths.


hope its not 2 long lol

Last edited by Honeycutt; 11-02-2012 at 11:09 AM
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:49 PM
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What was she even doing at the house at the start of the episode? Neither Thea or Moira even asked him about where he'd been the night before. Neither seemed frantic as Laurel was making them out to be. Last week she was all screw you, I owe you nothing but now we're back to basics.
I also waited for the family to check on Ollie if he's alright.. And wondered why they didn't...
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:17 PM
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personally I think just think Oliver was immature five years ago.
But I do agree with you, a flashback or Oliver telling her why he invited Sarah along is needed. (Of course Sarah is to blame as well, after all she did agree to it.)
I really like the differentiation of old Oliver & recued Oliver in this episode. Steve A is doing a great job with that scared spoiled little boy we saw in this episode.

I think one of the interviews on CW's Arrow site has Katie stating that Oliver & Laurlel & Tommy grew up together. There is a lot between them we don't know about.

Personally, I'm thoroughly enjoying this show. I don't know the comic book at all, and it has only been 4 episode! So I'm willing to give them a chance to flesh out the characters and their relationships more.

I'm so glad Digg is in the picture. From what I heard in David Ramsey's interview on CW, his character is not in the comic book. I like what they are doing with character and their relationship. Can't wait for next week's epi!!!
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Old 11-02-2012, 04:49 PM
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Is every week going to be Laurel blindly reaching out to Oliver only to end up feeling completely screwed over by him at the end of the episode. Because while they varied the routine with having her meet Arrow this week, the method is already lather, rinse and repeat.
Quote:
I'm all for obstacles, but I do wish the writers had made Laurel be upset a little longer. She seemed only upset for the first half of episode 1x01 and then that was it.

I do think that she is still somewhat angry with him 4 episodes later, she still snaps at him from time to time really and I think it has little to do with whats going on at that moment, but more to do with the hurt she feels because of what happened with Ollie and Sarah.

I think she has forgiven him but not completely, Oliver has "special circumstances", with him being stranded on the island and having suffered all those years, though Laurel probably doesnt know to what extend, and what happened I think she just gets that things were hard for him and feels sorry for the guy. Really she might feel he got his Karma and its been 5 years really, she may still feel hurt but she had time lots of time to make peace with what happened and move on. She is a forgiving person, maybe more so than a lot of people but still I think her lenience to him so soon has a lot more to do with his bad situation, otherwise it might have taken her a lot longer to forgive and reach out. It was shown that she still has feeling for him, minus whats may or not happen in episode 5 coz we dont know, so far in the episodes we seen I don't think that she was trying to get on with him, more like she was just trying to help him and be a friend. To be able to forgive people who had done bad things to you and even going a step further to want to help them, to me It makes her the better & strong person not a weak person. IMO

That is not to say I want Ollie to be left off the hook coz of his island situation, I'm glad she did lash out at him in the pilot, and still does so reminding him how much he hurt her, he did need to hear the effects of what he had done from her, even if he does know now. But I think she did lose control in that pilot scene and said some harsh thing understandably, which is why she went back to apologise, seeing that face again just brought a lot of pain on the surface. But nah I dont think its worth it to hold on the forgiveness, Oliver Queen paid for his "sins", its him who is like a total mess right now in people's eyes anyway, it just wouldnt be worth it to to not try and forgive & move on with one's life. In the end, what happened cannot be taken back, she still has to live with seeing Oliver Queen in town.

Another thing is the show pacing, it seems like they treat each episode like a "movie" as they were saying or "comic book" style, each episode is sort of self contained, with issues not taking a lot of time to be resolved. A lot has happened in a few episodes that would have been resolved in seasons in other shows, I dont know whether the way the show is going, will be good in the long run or not.

Quote:
What was she even doing at the house at the start of the episode? Neither Thea or Moira even asked him about where he'd been the night before. Neither seemed frantic as Laurel was making them out to be. Last week she was all screw you, I owe you nothing but now we're back to basics.
I thought she said she heard of the shootings and went to check out on him?, I think Thea heard the whole conversation on the stairs so she didnt need to ask, and it might have been repetitive for Moira to ask Ollie again & again where he had been, since there been quite a few scenes like that, and I still think her (laurel) lashing out at him has little to do with whats going on at that moment. Would that scene been better if it had gone to Walter, maybe. I agree there has been some character and story inconsistencies, some things are not flowing right, hopefully it gets better in following episodes.


Quote:
I think on some level he may care for Sarah. I mean in episode 1x02, it seemed like her death affected him considering I believe there was a flashback of her death scene in the courthouse.
I think he does, they might have grown up close, knowing one another.

Quote:
I think he was in love with.
But I don't know if he necessary realized it until he was on the island.
Yeah maybe something like that. If you love people you aren't supposed to hurt them but some people do anyway.

Last edited by Honeycutt; 11-02-2012 at 06:50 PM
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:58 AM
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I think that's a very possible thing that happened.. That Ollie didn't appreciate what he had with Laurel until he was on the island.. Still I'd like to see how they have been together before that boattrip..
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